Sirloin Schmirloin

[Jenise]

This is what I call top sirloin. All my life, wherever I've lived, this is what I've called top sirloin. I buy one and cut it into three pieces. One for each of us, and one for the freezer--a future stir fry or something.

But I am at odds with Haggens Market, the upscale supermarket (locally owned) chain in my area. What they call top sirloin is a kidney-bean shaped piece of meat about half the area of the above. Far less than you'd achieve by cutting off the fat cap and the two pieces that naturally separate from the main body of this piece. The kidney bean shaped piece they cut into two steaks and sell two to a pack. Then there's a larger whole cut they call Petite Sirloin, which looks about as tender as top round. Blech.

This pisses me off. I want what I'm used to--I love that cut. Costco sells it that way so it's still available to me here, but the heated argument I had with the Haggens butcher last week was really something. He acted like I was nuts to suggest that there was anything else in the world besides what they call top sirloin, and just plain pissy to not be happy with the petite sirloin.

Then this morning, I watched a show on PBS hosted by Daisy Martinez who made a very interesting rare steak adobo that I'd love to try. She said she was using sirloin. But I know my meat, and I'm here to tell you that the two steaks she had in front of her were what we on the west coast call a New York or New York Strip cut and which I thought east coasters may refer to as Delmonicos.

That pisses me off, too. East Coasters: is the Delmonico instead the cut I know as Spencer or Rib Eye, and my New York your sirloin, or is everybody ganging up on me?

%^)

... is what I've known my whole life as top sirloin ... unmistakable ! Everybody else (those that say otherwise) IS crazy !

Ummmm ... rare sirloin ? Sounds delicious given the tasty quality of this cut of meat ... wonder how to do it AND make it tender ?

Clink !

%^)

[Jenise]

Bill, what she did was make a dry adobo coating out of mixing about three teaspoons of toasted cumin seeds with about three tablespoons of salt, a teaspoon of oregano, ground black pepper and several mabye two teaspoons each of onion and garlic powders. Note that I wasn't paying careful attention, but that's how it plays back in my mind. She tossed a goodly amount of it on each side of the steaks, pressed it in, and then poured vinegar over them. She marinated them about 30 minutes, turning once. The steaks cooked about 7 minutes in a hot skillet. To finish the dish, she then cooked some sliced onions in the same pan to crisp-tender while the meat rested.

The type of adobo I'm familiar with is a long-cooked meat so this is a very different approach, but one that sounds great to me. I love vinegar.

%^)

... on one week's "splurge" night (one red meat meal per week) ... what kind of vinegar would you use ?

Clink !

%^)

Jenise, I will post a link to a page that will give you a picture of all the different cuts, plus things like different names for same cuts. You might need to go back to home and change from the loin cuts, if you want the chuck cuts but you can figure that out. Also, locally what our Kroger store calls a petite sirloin is elsewhere known as a tri-tip. And yes they can be tough, but they are also very very tasty done on the Kamado with a good southwestern rub. as for chucks and meat from that area, you need to try a steak called a flatiron steak. Some say that the flatiron is the 2nd most tender cut on the cow. I might not go that far, but it sure is damned good.
I thought I would add that the steak known in some circles as a Delmonico, is a club steak. The New York Strip is the large side of the T-bone, or Porterhouse steak. Sometimes meat sellers (butchers are nearly extinct in supermarkets) will cut a steak with the t-bone intact, and call it a t-bone steak, but in reality it is the strip with bone attached. A true T-bone should have at least some of the tenderloin attached, and be tailless. A Porterhouse is the same as a T-bone and have a tail.
Anyway the link is below.
http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefLoin.html

[Jenise]

Bob, I pretty much knew all that. I know exactly where what I call a New York comes from, that is, what I didn't know is which names are interchangeable elsewhere. Your link pretty much confirmed what I asked--what's called a New York or New York Strip here on the west coast is the Delmonico and is sometims also called a Sirloin, so Daisy wasn't wrong when she called it that much as same confused me here. The term "club steak" is not used. In fact, a club steak used to be a round cut that got run through the tenderizer and sliced full of holes, presumably for chicken fried steak or some such.

A Petite Sirloin here is definitely not a tri-tip, I recognize that easily whether it's whole or sliced. Here I think they call it tri tip when whole, and top loin when sliced.

Isn't it crazy that we have all these different names for the same piece of meat?

Ok, just trying to help.

I think what the Haggens were trying to sell you is what I call a Texas Sirloin. I've seen them very rarely anyplace else. It kind of resembles an overlarge filet steak, but comes from the other side of the bone. Usually quite good.

I struggled to think of something intelligent to add to this thread. I am at a total loss. There is *so* much misinformation, misconception and, possibly, miscegenation, going on that I am clueless. Eat meat. It is our destiny.

According to my thirty-ninth printing of the 1975 edition of "Joy of Cooking":
-- The Spencer steak is a rib eye.
-- The Delmonico steak is a kidney bean shaped piece of meat; it is the sirloin side of a T-bone.
-- Porterhouse has a slightly larger filet than a T-bone; it also has a tail.
-- Porterhouse and T-bone are slightly fattier than the other sirloin cuts.
-- Strip or shell steaks are also the sirloin side of a T-bone (but cut the other way?)
-- A club or minute steak is the same as a Delmonico.

I, too, remember minute or sandwich steaks that have been run through a perforator so that they are tender and cook quickly in a pan.

From Arthur Schwartz's "New York City Food"

....It has, in essence, become a fanciful name for the best steak money can buy, no matter where the steak is cut from. This could be a full rib steak, on or off the bone, or just the rib eye, which is the central, round muscle (also called the club steak). Others sell other cuts under the name: for instance the chuck eye, which is also called a mock tender. There is only one true Delmonico, however. After more than one hundred and fifty years, it is still the steak that most New Yorkers most desire and most frequently order. Technically, it is top loin from the short loin, but we often call it a sirloin strip today, and it's also known as a shell steak. Outside New York City, it is known as a New York strip, or simply a New York steak. A Kansas City strip is the same thing.


As to the kidney bean shaped steaks, I'm guessing they are what we here on the CC call the culotte steak - when breaking a whole top sirloin, there is a muscle on the top that comes off in one piece. It is prized for flavor and cut into culotte steaks - they are typically smaller, like 6 to 8 oz, so maybe that's where the "petite" comes from.
In any event, removing this muscle leaves a larger piece which is then cut into single muscle steaks, as opposed to the multi muscle tops we often find in the supermarket.

So your butcher may have been telling the truth.

[Jenise]

John said:

It is prized for flavor and cut into culotte steaks - they are typically smaller, like 6 to 8 oz, so maybe that's where the "petite" comes from. In any event, removing this muscle leaves a larger piece which is then cut into single muscle steaks, as opposed to the multi muscle tops we often find in the supermarket.

So your butcher may have been telling the truth.

He was certainly telling the truth as he knew it--he showed me what they get from the slaughterhouse, and it's the single muscle piece minus the culotte. They can't give me the top sirloin I want because they don't get it that way, and he regards what they get as the one right way.

But everybody's input is so interesting: there's clearly confusion and discrepancy even among those who take it upon themselves to be authoritative (like Joy of Cooking and Bob's Cooks Thesaurus) about what's what. It all depends on where you are, which isn't new news to me where rib eyes and New York strips are concerned, but Top Sirloin is a cut I had not believed in dispute and yet is is, and right here under my nose!

... what kind of vinegar would you use ?

%^)

?

Clink !

%^)

[Jenise]

Bill, a good apple cider or white wine vinegar would work well.

I'm from the eastcoast, and there it seems that Delmonico is a term used interchangably with Ribeye. Also, my understanding is that a New York Strip is the same thing as the large side of a T-Bone or Porterhouse.

I grew up on the sirloin steak in your photo, Jenise. Very flavorful cut. In California it's easy to find them anywhere...including Costco. I can't say I've seen the kidney shaped cut you describe. I'm curious now, so will try to find out what the heck it really is...

I'm still perplexed by the Tri-tip vs. Sirloin tip phenomenon (West vs. East). Can't find Tri-tip in the East...they cut them all up into Sirloin Tips. An in the West, when do you ever see "steak tips" or sirloin tips in the store or on restaurant menus??

Carrie, if you are in NC, do you have a Kroger store? If you do, ask the meat dept manager for petite sirloin. That is Kroger's name for a tri tip. ALso in the last few months Kroger has begun carrying Flat Iron steak (or roast) and the are mighty good too, their price is reasonable too.

That's good to know, Bob. Unfortunately, the Kroger nearest to us in NC is 50 miles away...

We're in CA right now, and have Ralph's all over the place. They are actually Kroger (ironically). I'm going to see if they have the flat iron steaks here. Some friends have been talking about how good their meat is.

[Jenise]

Flat iron steaks! Glad someone brought that up. See them in restaurants all the time, but have never once seen one in a grocer. And it's not in my 50's era beef book either, which means that it used to be something else, not the least of which might be 'unappreciated'. I have the feeling a cow doesn't give up many of them. Bob H, do you know what part of the cow this one comes from?

[Jenise]

and then Charlize Theron will be playing you in a movie.

At least you didn't say Thelma Ritter.

[Jenise]

At least you didn't say Thelma Ritter.

Who is the Thelma Ritter of today? She practically made some of those old movies she was in, but I see you as more of a Joan Blondell type.

I don't know who that would be. It was really her distinctively raspy voice I was alluding to since my voice is all you know of me, and I can't think of anyone in movies today who stands out for that. Joan Blondell--hmmmm. Well, at least you didn't say Shelley Winters.

Flat iron steaks! Glad someone brought that up. See them in restaurants all the time, but have never once seen one in a grocer. And it's not in my 50's era beef book either, which means that it used to be something else, not the least of which might be 'unappreciated'. I have the feeling a cow doesn't give up many of them. Bob H, do you know what part of the cow this one comes from?

Jenise, believe it or not, but the flatiron comes from the chuck. it is cut in such a way as to remove the connective tissue, which results in a much more tender piece of meat. It is still of course not a ribeye or a tenderloin in tenderness, but grilled to a rare or medium rare stage and sliced thinly on the diagonal, it is very very nice and about as flavorful as beef gets. I will post a couple links below. The third link has a nice picture of the trimmed flatiron.

http://www.askthemeatman.com/flat_iron_steak.htm

http://www.foodsubs.com/MeatBeefChuck.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/flat-iron-steak#Wikipedia

She tossed a goodly amount of it on each side of the steaks, pressed it in, and then poured vinegar over them. She marinated them about 30 minutes, turning once. The steaks cooked about 7 minutes in a hot skillet.

The type of adobo I'm familiar with is a long-cooked meat so this is a very different approach

I have always found it advisable to let your meat rest after rubbing it......is that not your practice?

This is adobo spicing for busy people and I will have to try it!

As for steaks, surely everyone knows that the best steak by a mile is the ribeye (call it what you will) and that sirloin in whatever configuration is an inferior cut.

You go get 'em, girl - make them relabel what they sell as semi-sirloin or something!

[Jenise]

You publically stated you are blonde.

Indeed I am. And I have no objection to Joan Blondell, I just mostly remember her from an afternoon soap opera that she appeared on later in life called Dark Shadows.

Re Thelma--thank god! I've been assured to the contrary, but in my own head, that's exactly how I sound. I never recognize myself on recordings.