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Getting started with sous vide cooking

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Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Sun May 24, 2015 1:25 pm

Complying with Frank Deis' request:

Jenise -- I ordered a copy of Under Pressure after reading what you've said about it. It wasn't hard to push me over the brink since I have all of Thomas Keller's OTHER cookbooks. The comments on Amazon gave me a hint that "regular" cooks could do at least some of the recipes (especially the meat based stuff). I'd like to ask if you would set up separate topic and let us know what specifically you have bought and found useful and what recipes you used with those things? It would help a lot if I didn't have to experiment with buying this and that.

I have tried, several years ago, to do a kind of sous vide with no equipment whatever. I bought poulets (which as you know are small chickens but bigger than Cornish Game Hens) and put them in plastic bags and tried to watch the temperature of a simmering pot. The results were not spectacular.

At any rate this looks like it will be fun -- but messages get lost in this huge topic and it would work better outside. FWIW I have also bought some of the chemicals for molecular cuisine after buying a cookbook "North" by the chef of a restaurant in Reykjavik. Once again he convinced me that these things were both doable and interesting. But I haven't really done any of it yet.


I bought Under Pressure before I bought an immersion circulator. I did have a Food Saver, which I did not yet know would be good/thick enough for immersion cookery, and an endless supply of Zip Loc bags, so I thought maybe I could toy around with some lame versions of sous vide techniques on my pro range with the low simmer setting without making the bigger investment (I was not yet aware that I could buy a good, purpose-built immersion circulator (inspired by Nathan Mhyrvold for as little as $200). I was fascinated enough by the concept, though, and further tempted by several pieces of meat I've had in restaurants that I know were prepared this way, in particular a boneless breast of Cornish game hen that had been poached in pure butter and then grilled off for a crispy skin. It was at the same time the purest and most intensely flavored piece of poultry I've ever eaten. And the texture!

But I never got around to toying with anything. I read the first chapter and realized I needed more equipment, and no way was I going to spend $700-1000 on a giant all-in-one sous vide appliance like a friend of mine did.

Another year went by before I found out about the Sansaire, a relatively compact device about the size of a magnum bottle of wine. I picked it up from Sur La Table around Christmas time when I had a $20 off coupon and promise of free shipping for anything over $150 burning a hole in my pocket. The Sansaire has a giant clip on the back and is flat-bottomed so you can turn any tall pot into a tank. There's nothing about it I don't like, so would happily recommend it. Though I'd initially planned to buy a large rectangle of a square plastic bin to use because that's what I've seen in professional kitchens, I have used it with both an 8 quart stainless steel cooking pot (not a Dutch oven, but taller) and also a 16-20 quart pot, I can't offhand remember it's volume, that's maybe one inch taller than my 8 quart but a whole lot wider. It was the latter size I needed for the pork loin I sous vided on Friday night, as it was about 13-14 inches in length. Between those two vessels, I don't need to buy any new bins.

The only other device one needs is a vacuum sealer. Per Thomas Keller, the minimum desirable thickness of plastic is 3 mil and guess what, the Food Saver brand bags are 3 mil! That was reassuring, as the bags I used at the Bellingham Tech Culinary kitchen a few weeks ago were more substantial as was, of course, their vacuum sealer. At home, small bags of smaller pieces of meat have done well in 1-3 hour sessions--I've never had a blow-out--but I'll admit I was a little nervous about the durability of a Food Saver bag for a large piece of meat over 8 hours or so, so for Friday night's pork I did check once or twice to make sure the bag had not sprung any leaks, and it hadn't.

Frank, the book, although a coffee table book in terms of size and production quality, is really a useful manual for sous vide cooking. The recipes and accompanying photographs are inspiring and the tables in the back of the book, by ingredient, eminently useful for helping one design an approach to whatever it is you want to do. Tommy left nothing out.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jeff Grossman » Sun May 24, 2015 4:03 pm

Jenise wrote: Though I'd initially planned to buy a large rectangle of a square plastic bin to use because that's what I've seen in professional kitchens, I have used it with both an 8 quart stainless steel cooking pot (not a Dutch oven, but taller) and also a 16-20 quart pot...

I'm very interested in SV. Not sure I own anything this big. I think the biggest thing I have is grandma's black-and-white-speckled porcelain pasta pot -- with the colander insert -- which is maybe 8 qts. On the other hand, cooking for two, or two plus a couple guests, maybe 8 qt is enough?
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Sun May 24, 2015 6:10 pm

DSCF0617.JPG

Friday night's pork roast at the start along with some purple daikon radish squares (reading Keller inspires you).

Jeff, for most things, yes an 8 qt pasta pot would generally be enough. Something I've not determined yet, and of course cooking for two and having the luxury of a 20 qt pot on hand, too, is whether or not you can overcrowd a pot. I just know I haven't done that yet.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Frank Deis » Sun May 24, 2015 8:09 pm

Thank you so much Jenise!!! :D

I'm sure I will have questions after I get my cookbook.

I think a lot of what I do will be for the 2 of us but that will be good practice when we get a chance to "cater" a larger meal. You cook for a crowd way more often than we do.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Sun May 24, 2015 9:02 pm

Frank Deis wrote:I think a lot of what I do will be for the 2 of us but that will be good practice when we get a chance to "cater" a larger meal. You cook for a crowd way more often than we do.


Haven't been able to do much of late. This meal was planned as a "kick off summer" dinner for my immediate neighbors, and I accepted help with the appetizers and a dessert.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Mike Filigenzi » Wed May 27, 2015 9:51 pm

I've been looking to get into this for some time now, and it's nice to see that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get started now. I will need a vacuum sealer, but I've noticed that these seem to be common in thrift stores around here. Anyone have recommendations on brand names?
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Thu May 28, 2015 2:24 am

Mike Filigenzi wrote:I've been looking to get into this for some time now, and it's nice to see that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get started now. I will need a vacuum sealer, but I've noticed that these seem to be common in thrift stores around here. Anyone have recommendations on brand names?


Mike, my vacuum sealer is the Food Saver. It's sold at Costco, though I bought mine on the cheap through a cheapo re-seller of refurbished appliances for half the usual retail. I was a skeptic! It's a good machine and I've had no problems with it. I previously owned something called Regal or Rival or something similar--very poor. I would warn you away from that. I bought the Food Saver to save myself from the other machine, and I know of no better home vacuum packer. You'll find many other uses for it, and Costco sells the Food Saver bagging material.

But yeah, it doesn't cost you a lot of dough to get into sous vide, and once you absorb it into your skillset you'll never want to forget what you've learned. The ability to precook proteins into a texture achievable no other way will make you a fan.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jim Cassidy » Sat May 30, 2015 1:47 pm

Jenise said:

I've never had a blow-out--but I'll admit I was a little nervous about the durability of a Food Saver bag for a large piece of meat over 8 hours or so, so for Friday night's pork I did check once or twice to make sure the bag had not sprung any leaks, and it hadn't.


I've not had any leakers in several years of playing with sous vide in Food Saver bags, including 72 hour medium-rare short ribs. I was surprised by the amount of food odor that seeps out; my first couple times, cooking smells were so strong that I thought the bags had failed.

Mike said:

I've been looking to get into this for some time now, and it's nice to see that you don't have to spend a lot of money to get started now. I will need a vacuum sealer, but I've noticed that these seem to be common in thrift stores around here. Anyone have recommendations on brand names?


I started with one of these - http://www.etcsupply.com/ranco-etc11100 ... -p-86.html I think I also needed a heavy-duty extension cord; the cord was cut in half, and the box installed in the middle of it. I had a Food Saver and crock pot. It worked as advertised till the big blue flash, the pop, and the adrenaline rush, but was a bit of a pain. The instrument box was obviously meant to be attached to a wall, the wires entered and left the box going inconvenient directions, and it took up way more counter space than was necessary. I paid for my poor mechanical abilities and careless storage - the arcing from the loose wire blackened the interior of the box, and I gave up sous vide till I bought a Sansaire.

I think the ease of use of the Sansaire relative to a controller and a crock pot make it worth the increased upfront cost.

My Food Saver is several years old, and the difficulty is using it with wet items - the liquid is pulled toward the vacuum and can interfere with sealing if it reaches the heating element where the bags are sealed. My old one has only an automatic operation that senses the vacuum strength and seals when sufficient; newer ones have seal-on-command or other options to handle wet items.

I would also recommend the wider (11"?) model; the 8" may not be big enough for some roasts.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Sat May 30, 2015 4:09 pm

Jim Cassidy wrote:
My Food Saver is several years old, and the difficulty is using it with wet items - the liquid is pulled toward the vacuum and can interfere with sealing if it reaches the heating element where the bags are sealed. My old one has only an automatic operation that senses the vacuum strength and seals when sufficient; newer ones have seal-on-command or other options to handle wet items.

I would also recommend the wider (11"?) model; the 8" may not be big enough for some roasts.


My Food Saver is about six years old, but it does have a button for dry/wet that sure helps.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:32 pm

Jim, love that you've been at this awhile and even use the same circulator. What have your favorite successes been?
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jim Cassidy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:50 am

Jenise asked:

What have your favorite successes been?


1. Twelve-hour pork belly, trying to imitate a dish from a restaurant in Paris; seared, sauced and served on lentils. Mine is just a pan sauce, the restaurant's is a foam made of 50-50 heavy cream and rendered pork fat.

2. Seventy-two hour medium-rare short ribs. Very beefy flavor, texture like tenderloin.

3. I don't do steak without it anymore; absolute confidence in doneness with less effort...

I keep thinking of doing a prime rib cap, which I first heard of in your thread about it here. My wife and I prefer our steaks sous vide to 134F. Do you think 138F would be appropriate for the cap?

What applications have worked best for you?
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:20 pm

Jim Cassidy wrote:Jenise asked:

What have your favorite successes been?


1. Twelve-hour pork belly, trying to imitate a dish from a restaurant in Paris; seared, sauced and served on lentils. Mine is just a pan sauce, the restaurant's is a foam made of 50-50 heavy cream and rendered pork fat.

2. Seventy-two hour medium-rare short ribs. Very beefy flavor, texture like tenderloin.

3. I don't do steak without it anymore; absolute confidence in doneness with less effort...

I keep thinking of doing a prime rib cap, which I first heard of in your thread about it here. My wife and I prefer our steaks sous vide to 134F. Do you think 138F would be appropriate for the cap?

What applications have worked best for you?


Jim, medium rare short ribs? That is a food I've never had. I've always kind of craved the well-doneness of that cut because of all the fat. Can you describe more about it?

I've done pork belly--36 hours. But only once, and it was great. But it's definitely a cut I need to play with more.

I did steak two nights ago, took it to 126 (because that's what Thomas Keller recommends in the book Frank and I have been talking about, then pan seared it in cast iron before plating. It was allright, but these were chuck eye steaks and for some reason I did not like the sous vide treatment as well as 'au naturel' on this cut--there was an additional slightly off flavor I didn't like (they were unseasoned)--though when I've had sous vide steak or lamb in restaurants the meat had no off flavors, just incredible tenderness. I've otherwise not approached steak at all.

I love chicken cooked this way. Chicken thighs with BBQ sauce, for instance. Cooked them for several hours and the way the seasoning permeated the tender meat was divine. I froze the sauce in cubes so that I could put it in the pouches and not have it all squeezed out during sealing. And boneless breasts with butter and a healthy dusting of Whole Foods Berbere--outstanding.

That pork loin roast I did a few weeks ago was easily my best thing so far, though.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jim Cassidy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:51 pm

Jenise said:

Jim, medium rare short ribs? That is a food I've never had. I've always kind of craved the well-doneness of that cut because of all the fat. Can you describe more about it?


They came out tender enough to cut with a fork, with more flavor than something that tender usually has - maybe an impossibly tender sirloin.

Here is a series of videos showing variety of short rib times and temps. I did notice in the comments that nitrate was used to preserve color in some - http://www.chefsteps.com/activities/sho ... e-and-temp

I hate to disagree with Keller about anything, but I prefer a pink medium rare, after a texture change toward firm that I think happens about 132-134F. Below that and you get a duller red and floppier texture.

Probably the best pork I've ever eaten was a sous vide chop from an heirloom pig, served still slightly pink, prepared by my sister-in-law. I think it was in for at least 6 hours. Can you describe your prep on your pork roast?
Last edited by Jim Cassidy on Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jenise » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:22 pm

Jim, on that pork roast, I was kind of flying "out there" by myself as Keller doesn't address anything of that size, but after reading his entire book for confidence I concluded that 8 hours at 139, I think it was, would be "enough". Fully cooked, amazingly tender, pink. In the package were a few pats of butter and several sprigs of fresh thyme, the meat was S & P'd all around, and I tied off the roast at even 1" intervals in order to force it into a more consistent round shape equal in diameter at both ends that wouldn't curl while floating. The roast was about 12 inches long and quite a bit larger at one end than the other before I tied it. That was strictly in pursuit of perfect plating, so that all ten portions, when set in front of my guests, looked exactly equal.

I'll work on the steak some more--I've eaten great results. We actually prefer medium rare, but the steaks I did were thin enough that I wanted some cushion for extra doneness that would result from the pan searing, hence my choosing the lower temperature. I may have just thought of an equivalency. You know if you sear a steak on high heat vs. crowding steaks in a pan at lower heat, the latter will not just look different but taste different? That was the issue with my chuck eye steaks. They tasted steamed.

Nitrate? That's interesting. And not appealing--I'm trying to get away from preservatives.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jeff Grossman » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:46 am

Jim, those short ribs sound just great to me. Did you sear them before serving?
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jim Cassidy » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:31 pm

Jeff asked:

Did you sear them before serving?


Yes, but not nearly well enough to serve to guests! :lol:

The meat itself is always remarkably unattractive at the point you take out out of the bag, a bad pink. I had some herbs in the bag pressed up against the meat for 72 hours, which left a dull streak of Monkey Puke Green on my bad pink short ribs. I sear in a pan in clarified butter, but if I ever serve to guests, I'll have the creme brûlée torch on hand to scorch any missed green spots.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jeff Grossman » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:26 pm

Thanks. I wonder whether the broiler (or a salamander, if you have one) would be superior?
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Mike Filigenzi » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:15 pm

Jim Cassidy wrote:Jeff asked:

Did you sear them before serving?


Yes, but not nearly well enough to serve to guests! :lol:

The meat itself is always remarkably unattractive at the point you take out out of the bag, a bad pink. I had some herbs in the bag pressed up against the meat for 72 hours, which left a dull streak of Monkey Puke Green on my bad pink short ribs. I sear in a pan in clarified butter, but if I ever serve to guests, I'll have the creme brûlée torch on hand to scorch any missed green spots.



Great idea, Jim. I hadn't thought about torching them.
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Re: Getting started with sous vide cooking

by Jim Cassidy » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:08 pm

Jeff asked:

I wonder whether the broiler (or a salamander, if you have one) would be superior?


I believe searing in fat is preferable for the almost instantaneous browning you get; the shorter time is desired to avoid moving the internal temp of the meat.
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