Americans eat too much meat

But the Luxembourgeois eat even more. We are talking about 300 pounds per capita per year, plus or minus.

That is nearly a POUND OF MEAT PER DAY, and that average includes babies, vegetarians, Hindus, and people like me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/0 ... ted_States

What is wrong with people?? It is BAD for your body to eat that much meat, numerous studies have shown that going back to the McGovern congressional study in the 1970's. Health care folks chose to focus on saturated fats NOT because that was proven to be the problem with meat, but because the very powerful meat lobby allowed it to slip by. "Eat Less Meat" as a slogan will stir up a political hornet's nest.

Maybe this should be in F&F but I thought it was equally a food topic...

In India the average is SEVEN POUNDS A YEAR.

But the Luxembourgeois eat even more. We are talking about 300 pounds per capita per year, plus or minus.

That is nearly a POUND OF MEAT PER DAY, and that average includes babies, vegetarians, Hindus, and people like me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/0 ... ted_States

What is wrong with people?? It is BAD for your body to eat that much meat, numerous studies have shown that going back to the McGovern congressional study in the 1970's. Health care folks chose to focus on saturated fats NOT because that was proven to be the problem with meat, but because the very powerful meat lobby allowed it to slip by. "Eat Less Meat" as a slogan will stir up a political hornet's nest.

Let's put this into perspective, Frank: the US sits in second place at 276 lbs, so Luxembourg isn't significantly different. I see it here in the Midwest where large quantities of meat are obligatory at dinner and not uncommon at lunch (pork tenderloin sandwiches are a local specialty). I wonder if those numbers aren't also inflated by the practice in wealthier societies of tossing away much of the meat as trimmings.

Mark Lipton

Mark, you are saying that it's true that we eat a lot of meat. But you aren't addressing whether it's bad.

I am very taken with Michael Pollan's thinking on this topic. He does not strike me as a kook of any sort, he supports everything with historical background and references.

http://michaelpollan.com/books/in-defense-of-food/

And here's a quote, not Michael Pollan, (and some of it rather old, but I think not therefore invalid) but something I found online. Pollan does discuss the Senate Select Committee findings in 1977, and how the meat lobby prevented them from publicizing the obvious conclusions. We are a nation of obese people who get heart attacks, strokes, and other cardiovascular problems at alarming rates. I really think overconsumption of meat is one major cause.

John A. Scharffenberg, M.D., in Problems with Meat says, "Meat is a major
factor in the leading causes of death in the United States, and probably
in similarly affluent societies. In fact, next to tobacco and alcohol,
meat is the greatest single cause of mortality in the United States." He
makes this statement on p. 101 of his well-documented book, in summarizing
"the formidable and persuasive scientific evidence we now have." He
marshals this scientific evidence of the disease potential of meat and the
relationship of meat to these specific problems: atherosclerosis, cancer,
decrease in longevity or life expectancy, kidney disorders, osteoporosis,
salmonellosis, and trichinosis. He quotes an editorial statement in the
Journal of the American Medical Association: "A vegetarian diet can
prevent 97% of our coronary occlusions." (Editor: Diet and Stress in
Vascular Disease, JAMA, 76:134-35, 1961).

Several more recent, well-organized studies have identified the risk
factors of atherosclerosis and heart attacks: a 1970 study by twenty-nine
voluntary health agencies, in cooperation with the American Medical
Association (these study groups consisted of many of the nation's top
scientists); a 1977 study by the Senate Select Committee on Nutrition and
Human Needs: a twelve-year Finnish Mental Hospital Study (Effect of
cholesterol-lowering diet on mortality from coronary heart disease and
other causes,Lancet 2:835-38, 1972); and a 1975 study comparing Seventh
Day Adventists who had different dietary habits. The Seventh Day Adventist
study revealed a 64% vulnerability to coronary heart disease in
meat-users, 40% for lacto-ovo-vegetarians, and 23% for total vegetarians.
The 1977 study by the Senate Select Committee on Nutrition and Human Needs
reported the significant deleterious influence of. the consumption of
dietary cholesterol (animal fat) and recommended the increased use of
fruits, vegetables and whole grains, and a decrease in the use of foods
containing saturated fat (animal fat).

I would be very interested to know how they came up with these figures. Did they interview my butcher? Did they look through my garbage to see how much of what he sold me I then subsequently trimmed?

As much as I like generalizations(!) I am suspicious of ones that use numbers.

I think Mark is pointing out that it is probably easier to get numbers for how much meat is SOLD because we have a good idea of how many cattle are slaughtered in a year, and pigs etc. as well. Whether it goes to trimmings or the dinner plate is between you, your butcher, and your garbage man.

STILL however they got the USA number, they probably used similar methods to come up with the 7 pounds per capita figure in India.

Let me clarify, Frank: I am appalled by the amount of meat eaten here and in Luxembourg. I am also appalled by how inescapable meat is in Lyon, where even the Salade Lyonnaise is larded with lardons. Although I haven't been a practicing vegetarian since I was in my mid-20s (harder to pair red wines with a strictly vegetarian diet [hear that, Rahsaan?]) I still eat far less red meat than the average American and typically go meatless 3-4 days a week. I was merely saying that the disparity in consumption may not be quite as dramatic as those figures may suggest, since we dispose of a lot of unconsumed meat, which is probably not the case in countries like India.

Mark Lipton

(harder to pair red wines with a strictly vegetarian diet [hear that, Rahsaan?])

Come to dinner at our house.

To make matters worse, think about the fact that this is an average across the entire population and many people are eating a lot more than 300 pounds.

Boggles the digestive system!

(harder to pair red wines with a strictly vegetarian diet [hear that, Rahsaan?])

It may be harder, but that alone is not enough to push me over the edge. Especially since (as Cynthia attests) it can still be done.

We actually buy a decent amount of meat now, to cook for our son. In keeping with the spirit of this thread, 1lb made into several meals for him usually lasts two or three weeks. But neither me nor my wife want to eat it, although who knows if that will change over time.

I think one point not being brought up is our evolution. Our nearest relatives, chimpanzees, are omnivores, eating termites and monkeys. As omnivores, we evolved as creatures of opportunity. While hunting mammals and birds was one opportunity, it is believed that the first humans to migrate out of Africa moved along shores and their diets were rich in seafood and fish, as many shells are found in their rubble heaps. As these people moved inland, they started to follow the migratory patterns of herds of grazing animals, such as bison or caribou. It is estimated that the Neanderthal diet was 75% red meat. Fruits, vegetables and grains were gathered as opportunities presented themselves. The domestication of animals and the development of agriculture are very recent - within the past 10,000 years. However, control of fire and cooking meat go back over 800,000 years, to Homo Erectus. It is believed that cooking meat helped to increase our brain size, allowing for more efficient use of a kill.

It is estimated that the Neanderthal diet was 75% red meat. Fruits, vegetables and grains were gathered as opportunities presented themselves. The domestication of animals and the development of agriculture are very recent - within the past 10,000 years. However, control of fire and cooking meat go back over 800,000 years, to Homo Erectus. It is believed that cooking meat helped to increase our brain size, allowing for more efficient use of a kill.

These points are all interesting. But it's also important to remember that Neanderthals and our other distant relatives didn't spend the entire day sitting in a chair/car watching screens.

Also, our ancestors weren't eating the Freak Industrial Meat that most contemporary Americans eat.

(harder to pair red wines with a strictly vegetarian diet [hear that, Rahsaan?])

It may be harder, but that alone is not enough to push me over the edge. Especially since (as Cynthia attests) it can still be done.

We actually buy a decent amount of meat now, to cook for our son. In keeping with the spirit of this thread, 1lb made into several meals for him usually lasts two or three weeks. But neither me nor my wife want to eat it, although who knows if that will change over time.

To be honest, red wine alone would not have pushed me away from a vegetarian diet, but having also started going out with a devoted carnivore (Jean) who also wanted to drink red wine was enough to push me over the edge. Subsequent events have borne out that decision. (It's kind of the opposite of Cynthia's progression) And, yes, we too cook more meat now to feed Andrew who, at age 7, is developing quite an appetite. Even so, if we -- as a family of 3 -- consumed more than 3 lbs of meat per week*, I'd be amazed.

Mark Lipton

* That figure is not inclusive of bones, which I assume wasn't factored into the figures cited either. If bones were included, our number would be higher given the number of birds we consume.

[Robin Garr]

I'm not making my fair share to the national average lately, and I'm still processing where I stand on all this. I've been a follower of Frances Moore Lappé ("Diet for a Small Planet", "Food First") since those books came out in the '80s; took a job directing a research program for a non-profit focusing on hunger and food justice in the '90s, and have moved more and more off the industrial agriculture grid throughout that period, an evolution made easy by the presence of a lot of organic farms and humane/natural meat and poultry producers in this part of the world, and a city with a lot of excellent farmers' markets in season and a few that go year-round.

But I stayed an omnivore through most of that period, making the argument that it was okay to eat humanely produced meat even if I wouldn't kill it myself, can't enjoy red wine without meat, an all-veggie lifestyle would be boring, etc., ad infinitum, even though there was always some tension about knowing my cats to be intelligent creatures with personalities and souls, and remaining in denial about the similarities between the pets we love and the farm animals that feed us.

Then last summer I decided to go a few weeks without meat, not for ethical reasons but because my pants were starting to get snug, and as a professional eater and drinker I try to be intentional about staying well south of the line between well-fed and obese.

After a month without meat, poultry or fish, I had lost the 7 or 8 pounds, got back under my target weight (180, but who's counting?) and suddenly realized that something had changed. Rather than just going into survival mode and eating very little of anything, I had jumped into the mode of creative vegetarian cook, coming up with new and interesting meatless daily dishes, many of them "ethnic," and found that not only did I lose weight but I felt healthy and energetic, wasn't bored with what I was eating, and didn't have any issues matching food with wines at all.

Basically, once I tried going without meat for health reasons and found it surprisingly easy, I then realized, much to my surprise, that I had lost my excuses for chowing down on Bossy and Porky. I could no longer deny how I felt about eating intelligent animals that had been sacrificed for my pleasure. Even if I wanted to go back to eating steaks and bacon and pork chops, I didn't feel comfortable about it any more. I had become an accidental vegetarian and didn't seem to have a choice; or, fortunately, the desire. Now it's been 10 months, I've maintained my weight, haven't been bored, and feel perfectly happy about it.

I still review restaurants (and take notes from Mary and friends who dine with us so I still post omnivorous reviews). I still think of it as something I do on a day-to-day basis. If my feelings change down the road and I decide I want a steak dinner, I'll do it without guilt, although as time goes by, this seems less likely. I don't evangelize - don't even talk about it much. Only the context of this thread prompted me to a rumination. And I'll never be a whiney or "entitled" vegetarian; I won't have a hissy fit if I choose to go to a steak house and there's nothing for me but salad. (Actually, I have yet to find a restaurant that won't do something simple to accommodate me - leave the shrimp out of a pasta dish or whatever. Asking nicely rather than demanding makes a huge difference.)

So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Oh, and for the record, a couple of primary rules for creating vegetarian main dishes that taste delicious: Use more onions than you really think makes sense, and lots of other aromatics (garlic, ginger, herbs, spices and anything that fosters umami), and always remember Yaniger's rule: "The Maillard reaction is your friend."

If my feelings change down the road and I decide I want a steak dinner

After we'd been living in backwater Montana for a few months, with really no place local we could dine out besides a couple pizza joints (David was right about veal being the state vegetable of Montana ), and maintaining a vegetarian household, we went to Bozeman for the weekend. We had dinner at a Chinese place that our favorite bartender at our favorite wine bar suggested. I ordered kung pao beef. BIG MISTAKE. I was so sick, like food poisoning sick, for hours.

My favorite vegetarian has the same reaction when served foods that were claimed to be vegetarian but were secretly not.

There seems to be some debate about why this happens, but I haven't seen a study addressing it.

[Robin Garr]

There seems to be some debate about why this happens, but I haven't seen a study addressing it.

Interesting. I was trying to recall, but other than trying shrimp and fresh tuna while visiting my sister in Florida back at the beginning of this path, I haven't really fallen off the wagon. Once or twice, early on, I would nab bites from fellow diners' plates when reviewing, but my reaction was odd. I didn't feel sick or revolted or anything physical like that, but I had more of an emotional reaction - not tears, but sadness - probably pertaining to its origin, and I couldn't get past that to eat enough to check the physical effects.

Mary still indulges in locavore/natural meat and chicken now and then when we eat out, and some fish, and I'd be perfectly willing to cook her some, but she won't let me.

If my feelings change down the road and I decide I want a steak dinner

After we'd been living in backwater Montana for a few months, with really no place local we could dine out besides a couple pizza joints (David was right about veal being the state vegetable of Montana ), and maintaining a vegetarian household, we went to Bozeman for the weekend. We had dinner at a Chinese place that our favorite bartender at our favorite wine bar suggested. I ordered kung pao beef. BIG MISTAKE. I was so sick, like food poisoning sick, for hours.

My favorite vegetarian has the same reaction when served foods that were claimed to be vegetarian but were secretly not.

There seems to be some debate about why this happens, but I haven't seen a study addressing it.

Cynthia, I'm surprised that you weren't aware of this effect. The commonly accepted explanation is that the bacterial ecology of your gut changes with a vegetarian diet, making certain complex sugars found only in red meat far harder to digest. Every vegetarian I know has claimed this reaction to meat after living on a strict veggie/vegan diet for an extended length of time.

Mark Lipton

Anthony Bourdain is my spokesman for all things vegetarian. To each his own.

For what it's worth -- I agree that dietary choices helped drive the expansion of the human brain. But what I have heard is that it had the most to do with LEARNING TO FISH. Our ancestors frequently lived near lakes and rivers.

When I say I don't eat much meat, I am meaning mammals. It is not too unusual for me to eat fish 3 times a day. A bit of Lox for breakfast, maybe sardines for lunch, scallops or shrimp for supper.

That is not EVERY day but it is a possible menu for me.

We occasionally have 100% vegetarian days. And I keep steaks in the freezer -- when we are in the mood Louise and I will split a NY strip steak with a bottle of good Bordeaux. This is less than once a week

Even Gautama Buddha believed in moderation, and I think he died choking on pork...

Mama Cass and The Buddha. What a pair!

Personal experience here of a big drawback to a meatless diet: My Mom was a vegetarian since the age of about 6 ( she would eat dairy and eggs in baked goods). When she was found to have Stage 3 ovarian cancer at the age of 63, the first and only round of chemo almost killed her because she also, as it turned out, had cirrhosis of the liver (not a drinker, either), and her liver was unable to process the chemo poisons out of her bloodstream. She couldn't eat solid foods for a while, and desparately needed proteins, but as a vegetarian, beef or chicken broth was out of the question. She just could not keep it down. I know this is an extreme example, but fact is that aside from a few grain sources, meat is the most expedient means of obtaining enough protein, and about the only means when one is forced by illness into a liquid diet. Bring on the steak! Just my opinion, of course.

Cynthia, I'm surprised that you weren't aware of this effect. The commonly accepted explanation is that the bacterial ecology of your gut changes with a vegetarian diet, making certain complex sugars found only in red meat far harder to digest. Every vegetarian I know has claimed this reaction to meat after living on a strict veggie/vegan diet for an extended length of time.

Mark, it's a much more general phenomenon than just vegetarians eating meat. I don't mean here to instruct a couple of eminent (bio-) chemists about digestive processes, but I clearly recall learning by the 1970s that omnivorous animals including humans adapt their digestive range, enzyme production, etc. over a certain time scale rather than instantly. Our ancestors ate diets that varied gradually, seasonally more than daily (I've even read examples like weeks of just maple sugar in the far Northeast). They did not have, for example, 95 competing neighborhood ethnic restaurants within short walk as I do at home.*

Also something touched only early in this discussion is quantitativity. It has never been a question of eating either no meat or a pound daily. Cultures like many parts of China gladly consumed meat or fish when they could get it, but that was seldom, so they made good use. Many real Chinese dishes I like to cook employ a little meat as flavoring or umami, not the centerpiece. Examples: leading Sichuan specialties like Ma Po tofu (which has a small optional meat component), dan dan mian ("DDM" or dan-dan noodles) -- more a genre than a recipe but again very minor meat addition used sometimes effectively; and even "twice-cooked pork" where moderate meat fills a key flavoring role. Some recipes from China call only for a little pork fat, say, as a flavoring and it gives a meaty effect. US Chinese restaurants adapted to cheap abundant meat and fish, but when I first visited China over 30 years ago, US-type "Chinese" dishes were rare there.

One can be a vegetophile without being also a carniphobe OR eating vast meat.

* Including several each East, West, and South Asian; 12 European; pan-Latin-American, six tacquerias, four ice-cream parlors, three pizzerias, Old and New American comfort food including seafood, and NYC Kosher deli cuisine that even uses a decent Russian dressing after a little talking-to (ahem).