French basil vs. California basil

[Jenise]

People who buy dried basil from the supermarket spice section wouldn't be aware that there's competition for your basil dollar, but anyone who orders from Penzey's has to ponder this choice. Me, I have typically been a California kind of girl; the California basil is bolder, ballsier, stronger flavor. Oh, and it's greener and therefore more attractive to my eye, and that always counts for a lot with me. However, somehow on my last order I blew it and selected French basil instead.

I may not go back to California. Come to think of it, the comparison between the respectives basils is not unlike the comparison between the wines of these two different places: the French basil is less strong but at the same time more complex, with a peppery note the California basil lacks. When added to a dish it brings it's basil-ness but blends in more harmoniously, where the California basil can easily dominate.

Anyone else with a preference?

Never use dried basil. Don't have any in the house. Was not aware that ANY source was acceptable. If I don't have fresh, I cook something that does not need basil.

[Jenise]

Christina, if we're talking salad I would agree with you. But I find the flavor so different from fresh, it's like a completely different herb and there are dishes in which I prefer it. Like, some pasta sauces, herb-flavored rice pilafs, and things like that quick cajun pan sauce for fish I posted about recently. The French basil also added a nice, subtle background complexity to the hazelnut cream sauce I made last night to go with homemade chicken ravioli. Fresh would have been overpowering.

My wife does all of our Penzey's orders, so I had to go to the spice drawer to check on what we have. Ours is the California. I'll report your findings to her, Jenise, and I'll bet the next order includes some of the French version.

I now see a bottle in my future. I was under the impression that it had no merit whatsoever but can see that you are not using it "the same as "

Agreed there is a major difference between dried and fresh basil, with different usages as well. We always have dried basil on hand in the house; when we need fresh basil we go out and get some. Even then it's usually too much quantity, because we have to use the basil in a spurt to justify buying the amount we need to buy. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, of course.

When I was involved with the organic viticulture/gardens in CA, we had fresh pick of sixteen different types of fresh basil, which was pretty damned marvellous. Amazing how many different basil tastes there are. Even more so when you add in the various basil-types you get from the Asian countries.

But we still had dried basil on hand. And dried oregano too. (And with oregano, you also get tremendous variation in source/type.)

[Jenise]

I now see a bottle in my future. I was under the impression that it had no merit whatsoever but can see that you are not using it "the same as "

Would be happy to mail you a sample of the dried French basil, Christina. PM me your address.

[Jenise]

Agreed there is a major difference between dried and fresh basil, with different usages as well. We always have dried basil on hand in the house; when we need fresh basil we go out and get some. Even then it's usually too much quantity, because we have to use the basil in a spurt to justify buying the amount we need to buy. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, of course.

When I was involved with the organic viticulture/gardens in CA, we had fresh pick of sixteen different types of fresh basil, which was pretty damned marvellous. Amazing how many different basil tastes there are. Even more so when you add in the various basil-types you get from the Asian countries.

But we still had dried basil on hand. And dried oregano too. (And with oregano, you also get tremendous variation in source/type.)

Oregano is another one that's so different from fresh to dry and to my tastes not interchangeable, as is thyme. But how lucky to have been able to help yourself to all that, you were spoiled. I don't think I've tasted more than five different basils in my life.

Well, not to ape Christopher Guest and his naming of nuts...as I can recall there's regular basil, lemon basil, lime basil, anise basil, Thai (licorice) basil, mint basil, clove basil, cinnamon basil (which is pretty awesome), striped basil, "Holy" Basil--also striped...and some others I don't recall.

Thing is, basil is in the mint family, but there are so many cultivars in comes in all kinds of forms, shapes, and flavor expressions.

With oregano, I knew the difference between Italian and Mexican oregano, but then I tasted Greek oregano and a Caucasus (Russian) oregano, and Turkish oregano---boy, was that one spicy!

Yeah, you might say I was spoiled.

[Jenise]

Let's talk about the dried herbs that truly are useless. My noms: Parsley, cilantro and chervil.

I think it is a sham to identify basil by country or region. Basil come in dozens if not hundreds of varieties, shapes, flavors, etc, etc. I've never seen seeds labeled French or California basil.

Let's talk about the dried herbs that truly are useless. My noms: Parsley, cilantro and chervil.

Those, and dried chives, too. In fact, it'd be a shorter list to name the ones that are useful dried. These days, I only keep a few on my shelves: oregano, thyme (too much of headache to pick fresh for every use) and bay leaves pretty much do it for me. We grow our own basil (2 kinds), parsley, cilantro, thyme, sage, chives and fennel. If I looked carefully, I'd probably find some dried marjoram and rosemary lurking on the back shelves, but we rarely if ever use them in our cooking.

Mark Lipton

[Jenise]

Let's talk about the dried herbs that truly are useless. My noms: Parsley, cilantro and chervil.

Those, and dried chives, too. In fact, it'd be a shorter list to name the ones that are useful dried. These days, I only keep a few on my shelves: oregano, thyme (too much of headache to pick fresh for every use) and bay leaves pretty much do it for me. We grow our own basil (2 kinds), parsley, cilantro, thyme, sage, chives and fennel. If I looked carefully, I'd probably find some dried marjoram and rosemary lurking on the back shelves, but we rarely if ever use them in our cooking.

Mark Lipton

Funny, I like dried chives. They do have a chive-y flavor that resembles fresh, even if not as good. Wouldn't use them in a salad or anything, but I do use them a lot in soups and braises during the winter when I can't pick fresh out of my garden. Couldn't agree more on dried rosemary and marjoram--I don't stock either. Rosemary is one that really puzzles me--dried, it's a bunch of nasty little sticks, and it does as well in my northern garden as it does in my friend's hot back yard in Thousand Oaks, California. IOW, almost anyone can grow it all year long, so why wouldn't you?

Carl, I don't think the implication is that the basils are a species called either California or French, rather in Penzeyworld such designations have to do with their suppliers' places of origin. And what/how/where they grow it makes the difference.

Talking about basil. I don’t really know what type of basil or parsley I planted last year (I bought them at the last minute in the spring of last year as seedlings from Home Depot) because of the “mild” winter we experienced on the East Coast (on Long Island) they “survived”, till this day we are picking “fresh” basil and parsley. (The “grow pots” were kept outside up against the house). Did anyone else experience this?

Salute

Talking about basil. I don’t really know what type of basil or parsley I planted last year (I bought them at the last minute in the spring of last year as seedlings from Home Depot) because of the “mild” winter we experienced on the East Coast (on Long Island) they “survived”, till this day we are picking “fresh” basil and parsley. (The “grow pots” were kept outside up against the house). Did anyone else experience this?

Salute

You most likely got the general type called "sweet basil", as that's what is usually out there. It's bred to be sweet and not too spicy in aromatics and flavor, with a medium leaf size. To get the more specialized basils you'd have to go to growers that dabble in such, and usually Home Depot doesn't. At least I've never seen any fancy basils there.

Don't let it grow too big though; once it gets 'stalky' it gets tougher and loses a lot of its intensity of flavor.

[Jenise]

Talking about basil. I don’t really know what type of basil or parsley I planted last year (I bought them at the last minute in the spring of last year as seedlings from Home Depot) because of the “mild” winter we experienced on the East Coast (on Long Island) they “survived”, till this day we are picking “fresh” basil and parsley. (The “grow pots” were kept outside up against the house). Did anyone else experience this?

Salute

That's cool, lucky you! You will want to eventually pull your surviving parsley, though; the second year plant will bolt like crazy as soon as it thinks spring is coming. You'll want to plant anew for summer and next fall.

I put in a little of the standard French/Italian type. It is a bit fussy. I also plant 2 plants of the columnar basil (Greek). It grown like a little shrub/tree, looks nice in pots on both side of the front walk, has a very nice "nose", and dries well for the winter. Since I many times don't decide what I am going to make for dinner until the last minute I don't have fresh basil always at hand the rest of the year. The columnar variety tastes a little different and is a dark green, but I enjoy it.