Have it our way or else, say New York chefs

I'm not sure I'm crazy about this trend,

"New York has spawned a breed of hard-line restaurants and cafes that are saying no. No to pouring takeout espressos, or grinding more than a pound of coffee at a time. No to taming the intensity of a magma-spicy dish, or making substitutions of any kind. And most of all, no to the 21st-century conviction that everything can be accessorized to the customer's taste."

the whole article is here, http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/r ... =head_more


-mike

Not sure what to think about this. I am very specific when eating at a restaurant, and I politely let them know how I want my food. Breakfast might be: omelet made with egg beaters (sometimes) toast brought dry (no butter). Salads are always with dressing on the side. Steaks are always medium rare, and I can't stand the garlic mashed potatoes they offer so I ask for a suggestion from on what they can substitute. This results from a few months at Weight Watchers years ago. We had a great instructor who told us not to be afraid to order in restaurants specific ways of prepping or substitutes. I have done it since with great success and find that the restaurants here are very nice about it. There is an Italian restaurant which has a great spinach pizza. I ask for extra spinach and 1/4 of the cheese. Never a problem. I've been asking restaurants to put chicken or turkey burgers on their menus. Well, last week we went to the Holiday Inn and guess what....a ground chicken burger and it was delicious!

They haven't met our granddaughter yet!!! She tought me how to get what she wanted when she was fourteen. And she did it nicely; not the teaching, but the way she got it.

As a vegetarian I'm certainly sensitive to the desire to ask for an ingredient or two to be removed (i.e. the sausage from the pizza). And in my experience restaurants are usually willing to do this (as long as it's not something already cooked into a sauce) because at a minimum it saves them a tiny bit of money. But at a certain point if you want to have all sorts of specifications then you'd be better off eating at home where you have full control.

I have learned to respect the manner in which a chef cooks the food I've ordered (i.e.: well done or rare, etc.) so I always take it the way the chef intends, but if I want to sub a salad for the potatoes, I don't really want to be told "No".

The wonderful thing about New York City is that if the server refuses to honor hour request -- no salt, for example -- it's so easy to get up and move on down the street.

More power to the restaurants that refuse to please their customers; more power to customers that take their business elsewhere.

Regards, Bob

There are thousands of restaurants in NYC that try to fill every request. So it seems absolutely fine to me that others don't - Rahsaan won't go to Momofuko, if they want takeout espresso there are other options, if you need cheddar on your burger skip Spotted Pig. I might feel differently in a town with less than a dozen restaurants, but not ever restaurant in NYC needs to please every diner.

Bob Ross said it well. I concur.

Although I can understand a chef wanting his creations to be eaten in the way he means them to be, I think these places are taking it way too far. There's no question that some customers will basically ruin a dish with ridiculous substitutions and I think it's fair to draw a line. But I get the feeling that the folks interviewed in the article have gone well beyond this to the point of assuming that they know the only "right" way to eat a dish or to prepare coffee. That's just arrogance and it's pretty annoying.

Although I can understand a chef wanting his creations to be eaten in the way he means them to be, I think these places are taking it way too far. There's no question that some customers will basically ruin a dish with ridiculous substitutions and I think it's fair to draw a line. But I get the feeling that the folks interviewed in the article have gone well beyond this to the point of assuming that they know the only "right" way to eat a dish or to prepare coffee. That's just arrogance and it's pretty annoying.

I actually saw the chefs using more of a practicality logic than a superiority logic. Making lots of alterations threw off the rhythm and sequence of their kitchens.

Rahsaan won't go to Momofuko...

I've been to the Ssam bar and the Noodle bar and it wasn't easy finding something to eat but I managed, just barely. Delicious, but obviously not my kind of place.

I actually saw the chefs using more of a practicality logic than a superiority logic. Making lots of alterations threw off the rhythm and sequence of their kitchens.

I saw them as going a bit beyond that. The "we won't grind more than a pound of coffee" thing seems like the kind of thing that involves preaching one's own superiority in taste than anything else. As I said, I can see a line being drawn - a restaurant can't cater to every taste nor should they try to. But when the point is to "let your inner purist shine through", I think they've hit the point where they believe their sense of taste is just too superior for it to be polluted by giving in to what others like.

I am opposed to diners who sometimes have outrageous requests for they are showing bad manners and bad taste. When it comes to reasonable requests, however, I think too many chefs/restaurateurs may be forgetting the two part axiom:

The customer is not always right but he or she is always the customer. And it is from customers that one earns one's living.

Best
Rogov

I am opposed to diners who sometimes have outrageous requests for they are showing bad manners and bad taste.

How can it be bad manners to ask a waiter for special requests? I can see how it could be done in a boorish manner, but if asked politely and of the waiter in a normally civil way, where are the bad manners? The waiter can always say no, again, one hopes, in a civil way.

Having seen some of the request that my wife gets from customers in a different field (jewlery) it has become obvious to me that a portion of the population does not know the difference between a reasonable request and an unreasonable one. Those who don't understand that their request is unreasonable also do no understand why accomodating their request should cost more. These folks take up more time, are rarely satisfied, can disrupt other customers, and are most likely to make negative comments later all of wich can potentially impact sales . Dealing with these individuals is a challenge and I can understand wanting a single policy applied across the entire customer base. That being said, I think not accomodating simple request is a mistake as is failing to explain why other requests can't be met.

There's one aspect of this issue that has been gnawing at me. I often host small dinner parties at restaurants, and am not aware of all of the food issues that folks might have -- as a specific point, the restaurant that refuses to serve decaf.

If I don't figure that out before we go and warn my guests that they can't get decaf, no matter what, we may have a unpleasant surprise at the end of the meal, when it is too late to go elsewhere.

A pleasant evening may be spoiled and as a host I would feel terrible for not being better prepared. It's really an unfair burden, I think. Dining out almost always costs more, a premium for entertainment.

At the Carneigie Deli or the Soup Nazi's Kitchen, ok, rudeness and there is only one way, our way, is part of the charm. But who wants to research the rules of the chef for every restaurant one wants to try?

Regards, Bob

How can it be bad manners to ask a waiter for special requests? I can see how it could be done in a boorish manner, but if asked politely and of the waiter in a normally civil way, where are the bad manners? The waiter can always say no, again, one hopes, in a civil way.

In some situations, merely making a certain request is bad manners because it immediately creates an imposition on the other person and forces them to be the mean person who has to decline. Obviously to the extent that a relationship in a restaurant is contractual and not emotional, this is less likely to be relevant. But given the prevailing wisdom that 'the customer is always right' there is some leverage for customers to abuse.

Obviously to the extent that a relationship in a restaurant is contractual and not emotional, this is less likely to be relevant. But given the prevailing wisdom that 'the customer is always right' there is some leverage for customers to abuse.

Of course, on one level, you are absolutely right, Rahsaan -- some folks can be boorish miserable human beings simply placing an order in a restaurant with no special requests at all. As a former waiter, let me count the ways.

But I can't accept that simply asking in a polite manner for a special request in a restaruant is ever bad manners or boorish. Daniel posted a very amusing test of one's dining chops in various cultures. One got a very bad score if one asked for ketchup in France. I don't remember the text, but it was devasting.

However, I've eaten at McDonalds in Paris -- the french fries there are the very best in the world at the McDonalds closest to the Louvre -- or at least they were. I would have no trouble asking for ketchup there, assuming the little ketchup bin was empty -- or for mayonaise or even for vinegar, all of which were on offer.

Any request made of a waiter in a restaurant, politely and honestly made, seems mannerly to me.

Your boorish friend, Bob

There's one aspect of this issue that has been gnawing at me. I often host small dinner parties at restaurants, and am not aware of all of the food issues that folks might have -- as a specific point, the restaurant that refuses to serve decaf.

If I don't figure that out before we go and warn my guests that they can't get decaf, no matter what, we may have a unpleasant surprise at the end of the meal, when it is too late to go elsewhere.

Bob, you know people that would feel their meal was ruined because they couldn't get decaf coffee? I think some people might be surprised, but really upset? All of these places have options, of what to order. It's not like the choice is "eat roquefort or else" - they offer cheeseless burger. You can't get a Rueben in a kosher deli, so get corned beef. If someone has major food issues, they should tell host. But if it's a few preferences, just choose a dish that fits, rather than try to change existing dishes.

If you want endless choices and substitutions, stick to places like Danny Meyers runs (great, and always accomodating).

A friend runs a semi-underground table d'hote rovng dinner. There's a theme, and by definition a set menu. What I think is crazy is that he tries to accomodate people who sign up, then have special requests. Why sign up for a venison stew dinner if you are vegetarian (he made seitan stew).

I do know people, insomniacs, who can't have caffeine, either at all or after 6:00 pm. I picked this example because I know she would have been upset -- she likes decaf at the end of her meals either with dessert or in the end game. She's a bit emotional, but at a great deal of the pleasure of her meal would be destroyed without that finishing touch.

It bugs me a bit, because the no caffeine rule wouldn't occur to me as being an issue in any of the fine restaurants I'm familiar with. If you think I could get this lady and her husband to join me in a Danny Meyers, well, maybe I should invite her to our Jeebus.

She had a very subtle critique of Per Se awhile back, one that was dealt with on the spot in a very elegant manner by the wait staff.

Regards, Bob

We are talking about the City of the Soup Nazi, after all . . . .

-Paul W.

One neat feature of using Open Table to make reservations is the ability to add special requests -- in my case, no salt. It reminded me automatically in advance to check and be sure with the restaurant that it wasn't a Todd English style joint with food as salty as the Dead Sea.

And, to check again as we were being seated; the host/hostess invariably was aware of the request and able to suggest dishes or sauces with no salt.

I'm not sure how wide spread Open Table is -- haven't used it anywhere except NYC and northern NJ -- but it worked wonderfully well for us.

Regards, Bob

One neat feature of using Open Table to make reservations is the ability to add special requests -- in my case, no salt. It reminded me automatically in advance to check and be sure with the restaurant that it wasn't a Todd English style joint with food as salty as the Dead Sea.

And, to check again as we were being seated; the host/hostess invariably was aware of the request and able to suggest dishes or sauces with no salt.

I'm not sure how wide spread Open Table is -- haven't used it anywhere except NYC and northern NJ -- but it worked wonderfully well for us.

Bob,
Open Table is damn near ubiquitous. I've used it to make reservations in CA, Chicago, FL and practically anywhere I've tried. It's a great service, though I've never bothered to actually register with them

Mark Lipton

Good to know, Mark. For some reason, I've never used it elsewhere, probably because I like talking directly to the people in the restaurants in areas I don't know well.

The only reason I've registered is to give the restaurant our special request; the points don't really interest me, and I'm not sure at the end of the day whose pocket the awards come out of.

Great service though. Best, Bob