My initial foray into sous vide

Jenise and Mike wanted to hear about my new sous vide machine so fond as I am of thread drift I though I'd start a new dedicated topic. Not too much to say yet as I just got it set up on Sunday but here's what I have so far.


I've been interested ever since I had a wonderful sous-vide chicken at Eleven Madison a few years ago. I had looked into it in a somewhat desultory fashion for a while but a thread on another board about:

http://www.chefscatalog.com/product/258 ... -Oven.aspx

and a tax refund check convinced me to give a go. Aside from the above I also picked up a Foodsaver to do the vacuum sealing. That is the less expensive option, this guy went all out:
http://extremecookingblog.com/2010/02/m ... de-set-up/

The real disadvantage of the Foodsaver is that you can't seal things with liquids as they get sucked out during the vacuum sealing process. The workaround is to freeze any liquids you want to use before putting them in the bag.

As most of you probably know the basic concept of sous-vide cooking is to seal the food and flavorings in a vacuum sealed bag and cook it in a water bath heated to your goal internal temperature. So instead of, for example, roasting a meat at 350 degrees until it reaches an internal temperature of 130 you would cook it at 130 degrees for a longer period of time. It is much more forgiving since the meat will not overcook (never get above 130 degrees in this example).

This has several advantages
1. timing - you can leave most dishes in the water bath for an extra few hours without problems
2. texture - it will usually result in a more velvety texture than other methods
3. the long slow cooking allows seasonings to permeate the meat (or vegetable, etc.). a crockpot is probably the closest equivalent.
4. it's a non-fat method of cooking which nonetheless can impart a lot of flavor (good for those of us who are dieting)

If appropriate you can do a quick sear at high heat after it's done to get maillard reaction flavors as well.

It's not a substitute for other methods but it is an option that can do things that other methods cannot accomplish.

This is the famous eGullet thread:
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/to ... equipment/

So for my very first "let me figure out how this setup works" experiment I just bought a package of 3 bone-in store brand chicken breasts. I'd normally expect these to be dry and tasteless after cooking. I sealed them in bags using the Foodsaver - one with a bay leaf under the skin and some tarragon, one with some dried oregano and one with some onion and garlic powder. Filled the sous-vide machine with water, let it heat to the recommended temperature, and dropped the bags in for 3 hours.

On opening the bags my real surprise was that it really smelled like chicken. What flavor there was in the breasts had not escaped. The bay leaf and tarragon had permeated the meat and the the meat was tender and moist and, most interestingly, cooked evenly throughout. The narrow part of the breat wasn't overcooked and the thick part wasn't undercooked. And while I normally throw out chicken breasts as not having flavor it was an enjoyable meal with a glass of Burgundy and some sauteed asparagus. Had I used better ingredients I'd expect the results to be even better.

I just had the breast flavored with oregano cold for lunch. It had a nice oreganoish flavor to it and was still moist. So preliminary results are quite positive .

I hope to move onto shortribs this weekend, depending on my schedule.

[Jenise]

Jay, thanks! I've been dying to play with this. I had a grilled breast of cornish game hen at a restaurant in Vancouver not long ago (part of a composed plate at one of those places where all portions are very small to begin with) that was remarkably intense of flavor and velveteen textured, and it HAD to have been sous vide-ed. (Anyone know the correct past tense?) Nothing else I know of could bring about that kind of result, and I've been craving a chance to have that again.

But reading around I've come to the conclusion (which you must have too) that there's no way to really achieve real sous vide without the machine. That is, I read a number of reports by people who had jury-rigged some contraptions involving crock pots and medical supply parts, but that hardly seemed worth it either.

I would LOVE to be able to produce results like this! The very best chicken I've ever had was cooked sous-vide and then quickly seared to caramelize the outside. I've never had beef or any other meat (at least to my knowledge) cooked sous-vide. Can you post a picture of the machine?

Never mind. I clicked on the link and saw the picture. It doesn't look all that huge. Hmmmm.

Never mind. I clicked on the link and saw the picture. It doesn't look all that huge. Hmmmm.

It's not especially large but could have fit 4 bone in chicken breasts with no problem. Not much more than that though so it isn't really suitable for a large dinner party unless the sous-vide portion was just a side dish.

Jay, thanks! I've been dying to play with this. I had a grilled breast of cornish game hen at a restaurant in Vancouver not long ago (part of a composed plate at one of those places where all portions are very small to begin with) that was remarkably intense of flavor and velveteen textured, and it HAD to have been sous vide-ed. (Anyone know the correct past tense?) Nothing else I know of could bring about that kind of result, and I've been craving a chance to have that again.

Definitely sounds like it. The texture is the giveaway. I have to try giving the meat a quick sear on my cast iron griddle next time.

Uh oh. Hope this thing isn't too heavy, if I mention this to Betsy I'll end up carrying up and down from basement (she hates appliances on countertops).

But very cool report.

I love how the guy with the homemade system uses a cheap "use at your own risk" circulator, but thinks a $1000+ sealer is mandatory.

Look forward to more reports

Uh oh. Hope this thing isn't too heavy, if I mention this to Betsy I'll end up carrying up and down from basement (she hates appliances on countertops).

But very cool report.

I love how the guy with the homemade system uses a cheap "use at your own risk" circulator, but thinks a $1000+ sealer is mandatory.

Look forward to more reports

So long as you empty the water out it's not very heavy.

Without wishing to be negative, are there any concerns about BPA and heating in plastics involved with this method?

Thanks, Celia

Without wishing to be negative, are there any concerns about BPA and heating in plastics involved with this method?

Thanks, Celia

My (admittedly cursory) research into this leads me to believe it's not an issue, at least if you're using foodsaver bags. See the commentary at the end of this recipe:

http://freetheanimal.com/2010/01/rack-o ... -vide.html

The short ribs have been in for nearly 24 hours. Only another 24 hours to go...

Thanks for posting this, Jay!

I've been very interested in this method for quite a while and have been following the eGullet thread. I had even considered trying to jury-rig a system myself but decided that it would end up being too expensive and that I didn't want to risk using anything that I wasn't certain would control the temperature precisely. Sounds like you're off to a good start.

The short ribs have been in for nearly 24 hours. Only another 24 hours to go...

At what temp?

A couple years ago I used the method with pheasant breast and served it over wild rice. The contents of the bag were pheasant breast, ice cube of pheasant/chicken stock, butter, chanterelles and shallots(first sweated and pan deglazed with sherry), and one sprig each of lavender and marjoram. I used my foodsaver. One very nice aspect was that I was able to have it all bagged the day before!

I opened the bags after cooking and poured the contents over some high quality wild rice. The aromas and flavors were outstanding!

The short ribs have been in for nearly 24 hours. Only another 24 hours to go...

At what temp?

135F

A couple years ago I used the method with pheasant breast and served it over wild rice. The contents of the bag were pheasant breast, ice cube of pheasant/chicken stock, butter, chanterelles and shallots(first sweated and pan deglazed with sherry), and one sprig each of lavender and marjoram. I used my foodsaver. One very nice aspect was that I was able to have it all bagged the day before!

I opened the bags after cooking and poured the contents over some high quality wild rice. The aromas and flavors were outstanding!

I'm starting to get the impression that the method works equally well for dry meats like pheasant (since they don't dry out and develop that melting texture) and fatty ones like shortribs (since all the fat and cartilage just melt).

[/quote] I'm starting to get the impression that the method works equally well for dry meats like pheasant (since they don't dry out and develop that melting texture) and fatty ones like shortribs (since all the fat and cartilage just melt).[/quote]

I agree. I think that perhaps with softer meat you might get mush. I will say the process really infused flavors and aromas. A good to great combination of herbs really show the dish off well, however, a misstep in herb selection could really be disastrous.

Has anyone ever tried this using a controller, hot plate, and stock pot?

I have been playing around recently, both with the idea and in a couple of experiments.

Preamble

Having had three sous vide cooked dishes (lobster, poularde and lamb) at the French Laundry, and found that the quality of the results was such that I was forced to reassess what I thought I knew about these ingredients, I have long been predisposed to try the technique, but discouraged by the costs. Recently I went to stay with a friend and colleague who gave us some cheap New Zealand best end cutlets also cooked sous vide, which were a revelation as well. So I decided to see if I could emulate the method at a reasonable cost. Simplifying enormously, the recipe involved vacuum packing two 6 rib joints together in opposite orientations (69) and then poaching in a water bath at 59+1-2°C for 9 hours. So taking out my trusty digital probe thermometer I tried it. My oven holds low temperature with great success, and I found that with it set at 70°C I could keep a s/s saucepan at a perfect 59°C almost without intervention. The result was excellent and equally good when I tried it a second time - so the first wasn't a total piece of luck. This confirmed to me that the technique WAS viable with relatively simple equipment and moderate outlay.

However, in the long term, especially for slow cooking meat like brisket, or short ribs, for 48 hours, it was clear that I couldn't afford to tie up the oven for such long periods on a regular basis. So, this is my solution. Not having received the equipment yet, I can't say whether it works, but it's no great disaster if it doesn't. Read on.

I was able to purchase on special offer from Lidl in the UK a 29 litre fruit sterilizer. As I do a lot of canning at normal boiling water temperatures, this will be useful even if I find it's not suitable for sous vide cooking. It has an integral 1800w immersion heater at the bottom. (£39 - for a piece of kit normally selling at some €120)

At the same time, I ordered a precision digital thermostat (not a PID) which can control temperatures from -50°C to +120° with a precision of +- 1 C°, which will do for everything except eggs, it would seem, where 0.1°C appears to be critical . (about £44 including postage to France)

So the total cost to me will be under £90. If I find I need to stir the water to create greater homogeneity of water temperature, then I'll try the method I've seen suggested on eGullet (I think) of using an aquarium bubbler.

It would have been cheaper to use a cheap electric ring, via the thermostat and merely heat a pan with it, but I suspect that the hysteresis would be too great, with the time it takes for the ring and pan base to heat up and then cool. I hope that the built in immersion heater will be a lot more responsive. The only thing I'll have to careful of is that the system doesn't "hunt" too fast and burn out the relay.

So.. what will I do? I will set the waterbath thermostat to fully on, and feed the power to it via the integral relay of the digital thermostat (switches up to 2400w). So... when it all arrives, I'll be able to start my tests. First with the lamb dish I've done before, and then branch out to other meats. Duck legs for example.

I can't wait.

Wow, those were some meaty short ribs.

I didn't get the seasonings quite right but the texture and meaty flavor was awesome.

Wow, those were some meaty short ribs.

I didn't get the seasonings quite right but the texture and meaty flavor was awesome.

Glad you were impressed. What weight did you use, and did you bone them out? What was the seasoning you used and what was wrong in your opinion. Short ribs/brisket is high on my list of things to make, but it would be nice if I could perhaps learn by what you felt you could have done better.

I did gather you gave them 48 hours at 57°C, but that's just about all.

Wow, those were some meaty short ribs.

I didn't get the seasonings quite right but the texture and meaty flavor was awesome.

Glad you were impressed. What weight did you use, and did you bone them out? What was the seasoning you used and what was wrong in your opinion. Short ribs/brisket is high on my list of things to make, but it would be nice if I could perhaps learn by what you felt you could have done better.

I did gather you gave them 48 hours at 57°C, but that's just about all.

I did a short marinade in Worcestershire sauce and sprinkled onion and garlic powder on them. For whatever reason onion and garlic powder don't seem to work well in the sous vide. My chicken breast done with them was the only failure of the three as well.

I ate one right out of the bag and seared the others on a hot cast iron griddle. The sear improved them as did a sprinkling of kosher salt . serving.

They were bone in. I don't recall the weight but I had gained about 1.5 pounds the next day...

Just a curious question: What purpose does the vacuum serve, as opposed to, say, putting the ingredients in a zip-lock bag and squeezing out all the air?

Hi again Jay,
(with apologies for the delay in coming back to you.

I did a short marinade in Worcestershire sauce and sprinkled onion and garlic powder on them. For whatever reason onion and garlic powder don't seem to work well in the sous vide. My chicken breast done with them was the only failure of the three as well.[/quote]
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that one needs to be very wary of onion/garlic when cooking sous vide. NO idea were, but - you can have any idea how much web browsing I've tried to squeeze in in the last few weeks! So thanks for that, it's extremely useful. I'm pretty sure I read that wine was dodgy as well. If I were to want to add a winey flavour, I think I'd either marinate first, or else concentrate wine down to a tsp or tbs of concentrate and try that. For the moment "KISS" is going to be my guiding principle.

[quote="Jay Miller wrote:They were bone in. I don't recall the weight but I had gained about 1.5 pounds the next day...

Chortle.... As for searing, I'd expect that to help, THE great authority of sous vide cooking in the USA Douglas Baldwin says

Brine the brisket in a 4% salt, 3% sugar solution (40 grams salt and 30 grams sugar per litre of water) in the refrigerator for 2 to 3 hours. Rinse and dry brisket with paper towels. Flavour the brisket either by smoking it for 30 to 60 minutes or by searing the fat cap with a blowtorch. Then vacuum seal the brisket either whole or cut into two to four pieces

OK, so he does his at the beginning of the cooking process, and that also makes some sense to me as it wille let the flavours permeate better.

Thanks so much for coming back, I can't wait.... the water bath arrives here on Friday.
=========
>Howie
You asked

What purpose does the vacuum serve, as opposed to, say, putting the ingredients in a zip-lock bag and squeezing out all the air?

Well, if we are talking about vacuum as such I don't think it will do very much, though it might just help the meat to exude some more jus, which would make it easier to make a bit of a sauce.

However, remember that the meat/bag MUST be kept completely water tight and well submerged throughout the cooking process. Now I don't know about you, but I'd hesitate before confiding a chunk of meat to the seal produced by a ziploc bag, good though they are under normal conditions, for 8 to 48 hours at a temperature that will be somewhere between 57C and 80C depending on the cooking. Quite apart from everything else, any air that you didn't suck out will expand enormously and might either burst open the seal, or (almost worse) make the bag bouyant so it isn't properly submerged. Another correspondent of mine who has done sous vide cooking at higher temperatures, has found that with her small domestic vac packer, the amount of air removed is such that at 80C there is enough air a) to prevent efficient heat transfer from the water to the meat and b) to make the whole thing float. I've seen (on eGullet) that people have thought about weighting the bag down with glass marbles to prevent this problem.

Those are the two major reasons why I'd not be inclined to go down that route.