Interesting conflict between chef and writer

So a NY times writer is sitting in a restaurant when the chef totally goes off on an employee in the kitchen, yelling at the guy in a manner that makes the customers visibly uneasy. The writer gets up from his table, walks into the kitchen, and confronts the chef. Then he goes back to his table. A few minutes later, the chef comes out and throws the writer out of his restaurant.

Seem like the kind of thing that might get an interesting discussion going here. For the writer's point of view, read this.

And for the chef's side, read this.

Any thoughts?

I will answer for neither the NY Times' Ron Leiber nor for chef Forgione but only for myself and that keeping in mind that I am not only a wine critic but the restaurant critic for my newspaper. In that role it would be inappropriate for me to interfere in any way with whatever happens to be going on in the restaurant. The place for my "interference" and my reactions will properly be in my review of the restaurant. Keeping in mind that when dining out even for pure pleasure, the critic is always "on duty" and even assuming that I was dining far from home in a place where surely no-one would recognize me, I would not actively interfere.

If someone at my table felt the absolute need to interfere I would almost surely suggest that either a word with the maitre d'hotel or a note to the chef, delivered by someone on the waitstaff would be the most appropriate way to do that rather than actually forcing a confrontation in which both parties have no choice but to be on the defensive and perhaps even become aggressive.

Not a few chefs do lose their temper at times. For some diners, now long spoiled by some of the aggressive behavior on chef's television programs, that can be amusing. For others it can ruin a fine meal. I always advice young stagieres in restaurant that the first thing they must learn to say is (and with a downward, almost embarrassed look at their shoes): "Yes, Chef". And I do believe that chefs who eventually grow up learn that their temper, no matter how dramatic, may have its place but that place is never at a level or in a situation where it will embarrass diners.

Best
Rogov

Interesting poser, as there's fault on both sides.
Diners shouldn't be subjected to chef/owner rants but neither should they walk in uninvited into the kitchen to voice objections.
From the 2 articles, sounds like both parties learned something from the encounter and probably won't repeat it.
But what to do if confronted with this situation...how about from the diner's POV, call over a waiter and ask him to tell the chef/owner to pipe down because he can do this at home with his wife and that's the reason he's dining out!

Had Gene and I been out with friends, I'm sure I would have been the one to speak up. Since Mr. Forgione was yelling at his kitchen staff to the point that it was disturbing everyone within earshot, I would have asked our wait person to please tell the chef he is being heard and creating an uncomfortable atmosphere. If my request was successful, we could continue with our meal. No way, would I ever go into the chef's kitchen, it is a dangerous place to be especially with someone who is already mad. The wait staff is there to service the people who are eating and part of that duty is to deliver messages to the kitchen, positive or negative.

If Mr. Forgione, continued to yell, and cause a disturbance, I would ask the group what they wanted to do. It would only be polite to let the waiter know if we decided to leave. Liebert is a tall man and his looming presence in the kitchen must have put the chef over the top, then to be waved off was another insult. All in all, mistakes were made in the already bad situation. Liebert was honest in his recap of the situation and for that I give him credit. I hope the chef made it good with his patrons. A free dessert would not cut it with me.

[Jenise]

Beautifully said, Rogov.

I think they both made mistakes. I can sympathize with Lieber to some extent: once at a Dodger game the woman in the seat in front of me kept swatting at her baby, who was crying because (or at least, I was certain it was this) of the hot midday sun. The baby was barely a year old. "Shut up," she'd say, and lightly thunk it on the head. I sat there getting more and more frustrated until finally, she did it again and in turn I thunked her on the head with my program. Thunk thunk. Her, then me. Didn't plan to, but neither could I stop myself. Lieber seemed to have gotten into that same state, and I kind of admire it inasfar as it the dead opposite of the kind of situation we all decry when someone gets hurt or beaten in a public place and no one does anything to stop it.

But at the same time it wasn't any of his business, this was verbal not physical. And the kitchen IS a sacred place, customers should not cross that line. He was trespassing.

Certainly don't agree with the chef, though, that unending rage and humiliation was the only solution to his problem, though anger was understandable.

I've certainly had staff who have been insubordinate. My usual tact is to tell them to "take the rest of the day off and we will discuss this tomorrow". That does a couple things: 1) it allows us both time to think about how to better approach the situation; 2) it places others on notice, as they are not certain whether the employee will in fact be returning tomorrow; 3) depending on how the employee responds (by going home and returning tomorrow; or going directly to HR to lodge a complaint), I am given the next hand (upper) I am going to play. I also make certain that I return to the office very late the next day just to heighten the nervous tension. But, under no condition would I publicly berate a subordinate.

That said, both parties were wrong in their responses; the chef for the reasons I stated above and the diner for walking into the Chef's kitchen, then not immediately leaving the restaurant after the infraction. What was he thinking!?

My take on this is similar to the rest of yours. I will say that neither we nor the writer have any way of knowing whether the chef's actions were typical or not. We're all human and we all have bad days. While I believe it's both wrong and counterproductive to yell at subordinates, it's not my place to judge him based on a single incident. If that's his normal management style, then he's likely to have a hard time keeping employees around. If not, then he's likely to do the right thing, talk it over with the staff member afterwards, and resolve not to lose his temper in such a manner.

What the customer does have every right to do is complain about the ruining of the ambiance in the restaurant. That atmosphere is part of what you pay for in a high end restaurant. In my view, the writer needed to wait until the tirade was over and then ask his server to bring the chef over to his table. At that point, he could have told the chef that the evening was ruined, that he was leaving, and that he would make sure others heard about this experience. Then, he could have left. Or he could have had some other discussion with the chef centered around the problem the chef's actions caused him. Whatever. But marching into the kitchen to criticize the chef in front of his staff was completely out of line.

If I had been in that restaurant, I would have found this entire thing rather hilarious. I would have just sat back and watched it all unfold, without offering any kind of interference. Perhaps the employee deserved a dressing-down like that; perhaps he didn't. Perhaps the chef was entitled to ruin the ambiance of his restaurant; perhaps he wasn't. I understand both sides of the story, but personally I wouldn't have done anything about it - for the simple fact that you just don't want to piss off the people handling your food.

If someone is mad enough that they completely lose it in front of a crowd of paying customers in an upscale restaurant, they are mad enough to do something seriously unpleasant to your food. I would not take the chance. If something offended me that much, I would just get up and leave - without paying, and after explaining to my server why I was leaving - and go get a hamburger.

There are very few times it's ever appropriate for an uninvited customer to venture into an "employees only" part of any commercial establishment. The kitchen of a restaurant certainly constitutes an "employees only" area.

Overhearing a manager yelling at one of his or her staff is not one of those appropriate times, unless the customer has reason to believe that criminal assault is or is about to take place, in which case the usual bystander interference rules in such activity would apply.

That does not appear to be the case here. I would say that the writer was way out of bounds intruding into the kitchen, and got what he deserved when he was thrown out of the restaurant.

That being said, I think it's unwise of the chef to be bawling out an employee where the diners can overhear it. It is likely to interfere with their enjoyment of the restaurant experience.

-Paul W.

If the staff of the restaurant -- chef included -- cannot maintain a pleasant environment then take your business away. Entering the kitchen is a violation of the social contract that transpires in a restaurant.

I would not have entered the kitchen. That would be like walking into your neighbor's home and into their bedroom to stop one from screaming at the other.,,,not a good idea! That being said I think I would have just gotten up and left the restaurant if I hadn't received my food. Having received some food I would leave money sufficient to pay for the food received.

The next day I would write a letter to the local human rights board, unions, papers, critics and blogs letting them know of the hostile work and dining environment that I had witnessed. I am a firm believer in the "sunshine" principle. I think that the chef/owner owes both the public and the employee a very public apology. Unless given, I would never enter that establishment again. I would also in every "restaurant conversation" be certain to mention the episode. The chef's actions bring to mind the quote "other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play."

As a past owner and manager of food and beverage establishments I would never have acted in that manner nor would I EVER tolerate that behavior from any member of my team. I made my staff and management team both aware of this during the hiring process and occasionally at all store meetings. I was given a great piece of advice from a restaurant manager early in my restaurant management career. He said, "If you don't know learn to do all the jobs well in the restaurant, especially to cook, you don't really have control." Then all the employees know that you can "cover" their position if needed in the middle of a shift. It leads to an easier "controled" environment.

I think that the diner overreacted and the "chef/owner" acted in a fashion that should never be tolerated by anyone. In many cities the chef's action would be considered creating a "hostile " work environment and could be subject to a very public and costly law suit.

"If you don't know learn to do all the jobs well in the restaurant, especially to cook, you don't really have control." Then all the employees know that you can "cover" their position if needed in the middle of a shift. It leads to an easier "controled" environment.

I never worked in a restaurant as chef where anyone else could even *think* about being able to do my job.

But, back to the issue at hand.

It is not unusual for a chef to raise his/her voice. Notice, I didn't say "yell". It can be noisy and hectic in a busy professional kitchen. Cooks need to learn to listen for the sound of one voice in the kitchen, that of the chef. I tried to never dress down an employee in front of anyone else, let alone guests in the restaurant. This would usually occur somewhere around the third time an employee made the same stupid mistake. I have asked cooks to leave the kitchen and taken over their station.

The more common situation in a quality restaurant is conflict between the wait staff and the kitchen. I always told my employees this would not be played out in front of guests. Whatever the problem was the guest came first.

I think this incident was inexcusable.

I never worked in a restaurant as chef where anyone else could even *think* about being able to do my job.

You mean you never worked at a restaurant where in the short term someone couldn't hop on the line and take your place? Or with the prep recipes, plate presentation standards, printed inventory, order guides etc that should all be in place no one else could do the function?

I do agree that the incident was inexcusable.

What's so sacred about a kitchen for pete's sake? Ok, I agree that guests shouldn't go in uninvited, so that makes it private, but sacred???? One may think that Lieber entered the Holy of Holies, it's a wonder he wasn't struck by lightning.

I cannot imagine him or anyone else entering a kitchen unless it was for a very good reason and this one obviously was a good reason. He didn't go in to complain about the food or service or any of the myriad of things that can go wrong in a restaurant, but about a specific and unique situation that made it impossible to enjoy his dinner.

Forgione does appear like a bully here, I remember eating at some French restaurant a few years back where the owner yelled at some poor waiter for dropping my goat cheese salad on the floor, it was uncomfortable and only lasted a few seconds, but that was enough for me to decide never to go back there again. I imagine if she had kept yelling, we would have either said something or just walked out.

The biggest problem for Forgione is now a public relations one. If he had just gone back to the table, told the diners he doesn't appreciate them entering his kitchen but understands why they did it, this would have blown over, now he has actually escalated a situation instead of diffusing it. It will be very difficult for him to recover from this.

[quote="Jacques Levy"]What's so sacred about a kitchen for pete's sake? Ok, I agree that guests shouldn't go in uninvited, so that makes it private, but sacred???? One may think that Lieber entered the Holy of Holies, it's a wonder he wasn't struck by lightning.

Safety and sanitation concerns make it sacred. A kitchen is a assembly/production line. There are dangerous equipment, slippery floors,and workers moving quickly working in production or delivering the product in a very c/rowded environment. The local and state health inspectors and departments would strongly object to having the public just walking into the kitchens for sanitation reasons.

Safety and sanitation concerns make it sacred. A kitchen is a assembly/production line. There are dangerous equipment, slippery floors,and workers moving quickly working in production or delivering the product in a very c/rowded environment. The local and state health inspectors and departments would strongly object to having the public just walking into the kitchens for sanitation reasons.

I understand that it's private and dangerous, I object to the word "sacred". In any case, Lieber said :

Not sure I actually crossed the official boundary into the kitchen, come to think of it. I certainly didn't get close to the hot liquids.

I cannot imagine him or anyone else entering a kitchen unless it was for a very good reason and this one obviously was a good reason. He didn't go in to complain about the food or service or any of the myriad of things that can go wrong in a restaurant, but about a specific and unique situation that made it impossible to enjoy his dinner.

I disagree. This was not a good reason to enter the restaurant's kitchen. If a customer wishes to complain about any aspect of the service or ambiance or food, the complaint should be made in the dining area to a waiter or the Maitre d' or another member of the staff.

One of the few legitimate reasons I can think of for a customer to ever enter an employees-only area of an establishment is if no staff can be found to provide service. And even then I would start by knocking on the door and waiting for someone to come out.

-Paul W.

I would simply have left without paying and I would have told them why. I would not have entered the kitchen.

Reminds me of a time in France when we arrived at the only open restaurant in a small town and all of a sudden a war started in the kitchen, as best as I could gather, something about the waiter having slept with the wife of the owner. We studiously ignored the screaming as it was the only place in town, we were very hungry and it was at least mildly entertaining. We werte just hoping that after the owner filleted the waiter, he'd still be in the mood to cook us something.....

I once walked into a famous bar/restaurant in New Orleans at 6:00 AM (yes, that's right).

There were only two people in the joint. The bartender and a waiter. They were fighting, rolling around on the floor.

Bartender looked up at me and said I should come back in a few minutes and they would be open. I did.

We were just hoping that after the owner filleted the waiter, he'd still be in the mood to cook us something.....

Such as Fillet of Waiter?

-Paul W.

We were just hoping that after the owner filleted the waiter, he'd still be in the mood to cook us something.....

Such as Fillet of Waiter?

-Paul W.

Well, as long as she was young and tender....and it isn't a sushi restaurant.....