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Food in Florida

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Food in Florida

by Jenise » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:09 pm

Just some random stuff from three days in Florida:

Was very surprised to go into a supermarket in Key West and find basically all the same fruits and vegetables I see here in Northern Washington or were standard issue in California. Only some tiny bananas, Chiquita brand but also labeled 'Manzanos', were outside the norm. I bought some: delicious. Very tangy, with more tannins. Wish I could buy those here.

First stone crab experience: purchased fresh but cooked from a fish market on one of the keys, we made a picnic dinner out of 3 lbs worth on our last night there which was spent, spontaneously, in Key Largo when returning from Key West it seemed we'd gone far enough and there was a sunset that needed attending to. Was surprised when I asked the crab clerk about the difference in taste or texture between the smallest, about 10 per lb, and the largest, which were maybe two per pound. "No difference." Aw come on, I said, has to be: shrimp gets bolder in flavor as they get larger, but the texture is usually a bit more coarse--something like that true? "No, no difference," she insisted. Believing she meant that but also believing I'd perceive a difference that would matter, I averaged my risk and bought the six per pounders. Loved them, but think I would rank them below Dungeness and King for flavor and texture. But for easy to eat, those lovely big fat claws have few rivals.

We had actually attempted to order stone crab in a restaurant on Key West the day before, but that didn't work out. We had decided to graze that night--dip in and out of four or five restaurants, sharing an appie or two and a glass of wine at each--after a long and leisurely night we'd have had a fun meal and sampled a variety of settings. Our first stop was a place called Michael's which had been recco'd on Chowhound for stone crab. Well, no stone crab to be had. They did serve it atop a top sirloin in an Oscar preparation, which the waiter said would be LOTS of crab. We bit: but alas, it wasn't even one claw's worth. Hardly a taste test. The rest of the menu there was disappointing--very throwback 50's Continental with some comfort cooking thrown in. Not special, and hardly the Taste of Florida we were looking for. From there we made our way down Duval Street, where we looked in the bars but didn't find ourselves in the mood to deal with that. And again, the hawkers were all trying to pull us in--after getting clawed at by three or four, we felt as cheap as they looked and wanted something else, something finer. So we ended up at Louie's Backyard--WONDERFUL place, and the kind of food and sophisticated casual ambience we had hoped for. But we ended up just having wine because after Michael's neither of us was actually hungry. We vowed to return for lunch the next day, even though the lunch menu was minus most of the exciting dishes we'd desired on the dinner menu.

But instead we elected to have our first Cuban restaurant experience: El Siboney. Bob ordered some grilled Mahi Mahi with rice and beans, while I ordered a puerco plate with tamale, shredded pork and boiled yuca, or casava. Mine came liberally topped with fresh thinly sliced white onions marinated in lime juice and salt. Everything was very good but most notably that was the best shredded pork I've ever had. Was surprised to see names I recognize from Mexican food, like the tamale, and something called an "enchilado" on their menu.

Our first meal, however, the day we arrived in Miami, was a late night dinner in the South Beach neighborhood of Miami where we stayed. By the time we checked in Sunday night, it was after 11 p.m. and every single restaurant I'd had on my list of good possibilities had already closed their kitchens (Setai, Asia de Cuba, Tap Tap, and a few others). The desk reccomended an Italian restaurant two blocks away but we didn't fly across the country to eat Italian, so we went cruising on foot. We were completely put off by what we found: lots of restaurants, but nearly every one of which had some kind of hawker standing out front trying to lure in gullible touritst with the likes of "Hey lady, steak and lobster only 9.99!" and pointing to an ugly wax recreation of what we might get. And if that wasn't bad enough, every 3rd or 4th place was some kind of a skin joint, or a cheap looking bar or a shop selling what I can only describe as hooker clothes. Not a prude, but this wasn't my idea of fun so we went back for our car and went hunting for something more dignified. When we saw Mr. Chow on the ground floor of the new W hotel, we pulled in.

I knew it would be expensive, but at least it wasn't sleazy. So we parked, threaded our way between the Ferraris and the Lamborghinis and the Bentley convertibles to the door, and were immediately seated. I'm actually not sure if I've ever seen so many fabulous looking people in one room before in all my life. All the women were beautiful, all the men handsome, and everybody was dressed to kill in white, offwhite or black. No exceptions except Bob in his blue Hawaiian shirt and me in...well, let's just say it wasn't a slinky black skin-tight minidress. A gentlemen in a white jacket and black pants to distinguish him from the wine servers and bus boys approached and explained that he would be our "guide" with the menu, would help us correctly choose two items from the first section of the menu and two from the second, which would create "a beautiful and balanced dining experience." I smiled, then advised him that we were hoping to have an all seafood meal, and wanted to spend a few minutes discussing the menu while he put in our wine order, an Umbrian chardonnay from Antinori at $90. All the wines were priced at about 3X retail and up.

By the time our wine arrived we were ready to place our order. We had decided on: scallops on the shell, Mr. Chow's noodles, black cod in a Szechuan sauce and Florida pink shrimp with I-forget-what-kind-of-glaze, but it turned out to be a sweet/sour which I wasn't expecting based on how it was described on the menu. A vegetable described as "lily bud with mountain potato" was also ordered, and a fried rice. But backing up for a second, you have to hear this. When I recited our desires, the waiter asked in a patronizing voice with the lilt at the end like you might use with a child or someone several shades dimmer than normal, "And do you know what black cod is?" Now there had been things about placing the wine order that made me suspect that we had been pegged as fresh off the turnip truck, but this was too much. So I responded, in a mimicry of his intonations but with a big helping of sneer on top, "YESSSSSSS. I order black cod in restaurants all the time at home, in fact I often buy black cod and cook it myself. Have you ever cooked black cod YOURself?"

At that point, most interestingly and most wisely, he excused himself and sent another waiter to our table to take our order. Our new handler, as we referred to that service provider from that moment on, took our order without complaint or criticism, and from then on we had a nice if ridiculously expensive meal, but sheesh. Oh, and this was also our first experience being charged an 18% gratuity automatically when there were only two of us. We wondered if that was Cod Man acting protectively or just South Beach SOP. Could be the latter as we were similarly taxed at another place we stopped at later for a nightcap.

Anyway, foodwise, that was pretty much the trip. Not quite what we planned, but we had trouble getting time and opportunity to coincide. Thanks everyone for your reccomendations.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Food in Florida

by ChefJCarey » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:39 pm

Hey, it's Florida.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Robert Reynolds » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:35 am

The best parts of Florida are far from the cities. I prefer the Gulf side of the state anyway, but can still only stand to visit it no more than 2 or 3 times a decade at most.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Shel T » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:41 am

Nice report Jenise, and especially 'amused' with your Mr. Chow experience, whose "empire" has certainly grown from his first resto in London that opened across the street from where I lived in Knightsbridge--and from your description, not necessarily for the better!
The original restaurant did not have 'handlers' or the pretentious twee-sounding menu items or would have gotten away with it if they had. And the Chow in L.A. was always a pale imitation of the London restaurant whose grub went from slightly above mediocre to almost inedible...but amazingly "trendy"!
I'm surprised there are so many restos employing hustlers to bring in the punters, sounds more like what you'd expect from a London Soho strip joint or in Tijuana.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Jenise » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:12 am

Robert Reynolds wrote:The best parts of Florida are far from the cities. I prefer the Gulf side of the state anyway, but can still only stand to visit it no more than 2 or 3 times a decade at most.


I can relate. Our overwelming feeling upon leaving was that we had fun, but there's no reason to go back. What I love about places I love is not in Miami or Key West. My favorite things we saw there? 1) The giant lizards. We were driving south through Key Largo when we saw something flop in some roadside grass. We stopped. There were two, the smallest of which was a good 24-26 inches and bright tropical shades of green and blue. The other was a good 36 inches with a white head, orange mid body and really really long black and white striped tail. He also had a rather prehistoric dorsal fin on his back. I had no idea there was any place in the U.S. where such things were just laying around loose! I was able to stand just a few feet away and take pictures.

Also loved heading to the sea wall near Louie's Backyard to watch the sun set in Key West. As soon as the sun dipped out of sight, everyone but us left. We had wine in plastic cups and we stayed to finish our drinks. While waiting, up came a little man with a small case over each shoulder. He unzipped the first, removed a plastic jar and poured out some cat food for the stray cat who came out of the bushes right on cue. He then replaced the lid, put it back in the other case and removed a thermos. From that he poured himself a drink, then put the thermos back in the case and carefully zipped it up. Every movement was at the exact same speed--slow and deliberate, the motions of someone who had done this every day for years. He then unzipped the second case and removed an object with a band, which he then clasped around his forehead. It was a light on a velcro strap like the one my plumber used today. He turned on the light. Then he removed a wand, which he extended until a feather duster popped out one end, and proceeded to dust off a two foot stretch of sea wall on which to sit. And then out came a book. It took him a good ten minutes to set all this up, this temporary reading station with cat, very methodically, very exacting. And watching him was like watching a magician with a bag of tricks. Delightful.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Food in Florida

by Jenise » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:22 am

Shel T wrote:Nice report Jenise, and especially 'amused' with your Mr. Chow experience, whose "empire" has certainly grown from his first resto in London that opened across the street from where I lived in Knightsbridge--and from your description, not necessarily for the better!
The original restaurant did not have 'handlers' or the pretentious twee-sounding menu items or would have gotten away with it if they had. And the Chow in L.A. was always a pale imitation of the London restaurant whose grub went from slightly above mediocre to almost inedible...but amazingly "trendy"!
I'm surprised there are so many restos employing hustlers to bring in the punters, sounds more like what you'd expect from a London Soho strip joint or in Tijuana.


I'm certainly familiar with Mr. Chow in West L.A. but had no idea that London, and not L.A., was the original. Mediocre--well yes. I can't reccomend based on what we had that anyone go there for the food. It was tasty enough, but not exceptional, and the best dish while being very good was in fact undeservedly bland for a dish with the word 'Szechuan' in the name.

'Hustler'--that's the right word, and Tiajuana strip joint is the right comparison! Have also encountered same in New Orleans and Patpong Road in Bangkok. :) Sure didn't expect it in Florida.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Food in Florida

by Mark Lipton » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:14 pm

Why, Jenise, I would've never guessed that you had it within you to be snarky to a waitron (though, on a moment's reflection, I should've realized that your kitchen remodel chronicle hints at that level of high dudgeon) -- well done! What a tool! FWIW, S. Florida seems like a fine dining wasteland for the most part. Most often, the choices come down to overpriced and pretentious food of the most unoriginal sort or chain restaurant hell. That's why, on our various excursions down there, we either eat seafood at unpretentious locations or eat ethnic, especially Cuban.

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Re: Food in Florida

by Jim Cassidy » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:24 pm

Jenise said:

So I responded, in a mimicry of his intonations but with a big helping of sneer on top, "YESSSSSSS. I order it all the time at home, in fact I often buy it and cook it myself. Have you ever cooked it yourself?"


...oh, to have been a fly on the wall! :D

Amazing that a waiter that initially stupid found the sense to bail when he did.

BTW, what is black cod? :oops:
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Re: Food in Florida

by Karen/NoCA » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:51 pm

At that point, most interestingly and most wisely, he excused himself and sent another waiter to our table to take our order. Our new handler, as we referred to that service provider from that moment on, took our order without complaint or criticism, and from then on we had a nice if ridiculously expensive meal, but sheesh. Oh, and this was also our first experience being charged an 18% gratuity automatically when there were only two of us. We wondered if that was Cod Man or just Miami Beach SOP. We were similarly taxed at another place we stopped at later for a nightcap.


While you are certainly a more experienced traveler than I, I find this practice extremely inappropriate and wonder what would have happened if you added 10% instead of 18%? I can tell you that Gene would have never stood for it. I recall when Olive Garden first came to Redding, I went there with 5 other ladies for lunch. They added the gratuity onto our check and I flipped. I called our server to the table and asked, "when did the tip become the decision of the server rather than the served?” Of course he had no answer, but I adjusted it and he got less than expected. :evil:
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Re: Food in Florida

by Paul Winalski » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:37 pm

If I saw that there was a 18% automatic gratuity, I'd immediately have walked out and eaten elsewhere.

BTW, the automatic part is what I object to, especially for such a small party. I usually tip 20%, and more if the service is exceptional.

I also think the European system where the establishment pays its waitstaff a full wage is preferable to the way we do it in the USA.

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Re: Food in Florida

by Mike Filigenzi » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:08 pm

Have to agree with the others on the 18% tip for a party of 2. The temptation would be to give 18% when, like Paul, I normally do 20% for good service. That policy is not the server's fault, though. I think the best course would be to tip the server whatever they deserve and give the manager a major earful.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Covert » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:18 pm

Thanks, Jenise, that was fun. Like being there. I have a love/hate affair with Florida. Used to love it when it had about one tenth, or one twentieth, the number of people milling around.

But I will chime in with one comment regarding the automatic 18% gratuity. There are so many dirtballs these days who live for anything saved, easy or free that they will leave a quarter, or less, left to their own volition. I think it is time for all restaurants to mandate a gratuity, especially in dirtbag areas.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Jenise » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:55 pm

Mike Filigenzi wrote:Have to agree with the others on the 18% tip for a party of 2. The temptation would be to give 18% when, like Paul, I normally do 20% for good service. That policy is not the server's fault, though. I think the best course would be to tip the server whatever they deserve and give the manager a major earful.


We left a very nice tip greater than their 18%. Not knowing the local customs and not wanting to ruffle our own feathers, we decided that ignoring the mandate would create the most dignified exit and best night's sleep. :)
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Food in Florida

by Mike Filigenzi » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:00 pm

Jenise wrote:We left a very nice tip greater than their 18%. Not knowing the local customs and not wanting to ruffle our own feathers, we decided that ignoring the mandate would create the most dignified exit and best night's sleep. :)



Oh yeah. That "high road" thing. :wink:
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Re: Food in Florida

by Jenise » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:30 pm

Mike Filigenzi wrote:
Jenise wrote:We left a very nice tip greater than their 18%. Not knowing the local customs and not wanting to ruffle our own feathers, we decided that ignoring the mandate would create the most dignified exit and best night's sleep. :)


Oh yeah. That "high road" thing. :wink:


Actually, less that than feeling that we were on vaction and had made a pact on the plane just hours before to not sweat the small stuff. My hubby's been under huge stress lately and little things seem to get to him too easily.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Food in Florida

by Shel T » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:01 pm

FYI, re the 18% tip listed on the menu.
Because of the recent story about a couple of students being arrested for refusing to pay the "mandatory" tip for non-service received in a pennsylvania pub, all sorts of legal types emerged with the legality of "mandatory" charges.
If I've read all these opinions correctly, the situation is:
If the menu lists a mandatory 18% "gratuity", it's not enforceable but if it's written as a 18% "service charge, it is 'legal', or at least defensible in court.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Larry Greenly » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:02 pm

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Re: Food in Florida

by Carrie L. » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:54 am

Jenise wrote:

Also loved heading to the sea wall near Louie's Backyard to watch the sun set in Key West. As soon as the sun dipped out of sight, everyone but us left. We had wine in plastic cups and we stayed to finish our drinks. While waiting, up came a little man with a small case over each shoulder. He unzipped the first, removed a plastic jar and poured out some cat food for the stray cat who came out of the bushes right on cue. He then replaced the lid, put it back in the other case and removed a thermos. From that he poured himself a drink, then put the thermos back in the case and carefully zipped it up. Every movement was at the exact same speed--slow and deliberate, the motions of someone who had done this every day for years. He then unzipped the second case and removed an object with a band, which he then clasped around his forehead. It was a light on a velcro strap like the one my plumber used today. He turned on the light. Then he removed a wand, which he extended until a feather duster popped out one end, and proceeded to dust off a two foot stretch of sea wall on which to sit. And then out came a book. It took him a good ten minutes to set all this up, this temporary reading station with cat, very methodically, very exacting. And watching him was like watching a magician with a bag of tricks. Delightful.


I would have loved to have seen this. Those are the types of experiences I think of as so "Key West." Have heard Louis Backyard is the best. Sorry I forgot to mention it prior to your visit.

I spent 33 years in Florida. The only things I miss about it are my wonderful family and good Cuban bread--oh and now that I live in two very land-locked places, every once in awhile I miss taking the boat out to an island and spending all day out there picnicing, shelling, and coming home with a little too much sun.

Jenise, did you not have any Key Lime Pie?
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Re: Food in Florida

by Jenise » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:34 pm

Carrie, no, sorry, no key lime pie. The way the trip went I'd have had to make a special stop for it and eat when I wasn't hungry, so we missed out. I have had KLP elsewhere, mind you, and I know how good it is as well as generally how good it is to have a dish in its place of origins, but in this case it just didn't fit into our plans.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Bernard Roth » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:50 am

I'm from there, but I don't go to South Beach anymore. Taken over by itinerant scammers and pretentious money baggers.
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Re: Food in Florida

by Jenise » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:34 pm

Bernard Roth wrote:I'm from there, but I don't go to South Beach anymore. Taken over by itinerant scammers and pretentious money baggers.


Wasn't expecting Rodeo Drive, but there was certainly an overt cheap and skeezy factor I didn't expect.
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