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Turkey gravy

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wnissen

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Turkey gravy

by wnissen » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:09 pm

There's a wonderful thread on the old FLDG that talks about many ways of making gravy: http://www.myspeakerscorner.com/forum/s ... &tid=55675

I had some more questions. One, why would you make gravy from stock when there are pan drippings to be had? Two, is there an advantage in taste or consistency to use Wondra, or is a roux with regular flour the best?

I want a flavorful, thick gravy, but have never made one before and would appreciate a full recipe and/or pointers.

Thanks,
Walt
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Jeff Grossman

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Re: Turkey gravy

by Jeff Grossman » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:09 pm

Yes, yes, you gravy-making wizards... tell us. (I can't make a gravy to save my life.)
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Re: Turkey gravy

by Jenise » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:11 pm

Stock and pan drippings aren't mutually exclusive. (Fun thread--by the way, really enjoyed re-reading that.)

The gravy I grew up with was water and flour mixed into the pan drippings. If you don't have pan drippings, you most certainly NEED stock. BUT if you have and use both? Best of all for a rich, intensely flavored gravy. I personally favor a gravy that's almost a wine sauce, and love to add white wine to the turkey pan during baking. The blast of moisture on the bottom of the hot pan actually steams the bird in a good way, and as it cooks off it darkens on the bottom of the pan. The result is rich dark drippings that produce an intensely flavored, dark,
wine-y gravy that's a huge departure from the barely dilute, barely brown gravies my mother made. As I read what I wrote back in 2004, I think I was being too loyal to dear old mom: my gravies are nothing like hers, except that I do use flour as a thickener and I don't use the giblets.
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Re: Turkey gravy

by Paul Winalski » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:11 pm

My mom used to make her delicious turkey gravy by de-glazing the roasting pan with water, then adding general-purpose flour to thicken. This thus was a flour slurry-type gravy. I'd use white wine or stock to de-glaze. You could also do a brown roux using the fat from the turkey drippings, and use that to thicken the de-glazed pan juices.

-Paul W.
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Re: Turkey gravy

by John Treder » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:36 pm

By all means use the drippings! If there aren't enough, use broth - giblet broth if you cooked the giblets is wonderful. If all else fails, canned chicken broth with some turkey skin in the pan to give it flavor will work.
I like giblets in my gravy - YMMV. What I do is divide up the giblets and put about half in the gravy and the rest (including the liver) in the soup, a few days later.
It seems that everyone bases gravy on what Grandma used to do. I had the advantage of having both Grandma and Grammy. Grammy (Dad's mother) was the better cook. Her turkey gravy had giblets (see above) and was thickened with a stir-up of flour and milk. She used water to adjust the thickness. Neither Grammy nor Grandma ever used wine in cooking.
Like Jenise, I like to add some white wine to the turkey during basting, and based on the flavor as I'm making the gravy, maybe some water or maybe some wine to adjust the thickness. The one or two tablespoons of milk definitely enriches the gravy, without making it a "milk gravy".
John
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Re: Turkey gravy

by ChefJCarey » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:02 am

The "fond" and the liquid have nothing to do with each other! More tomorrow when I'm hopefully sentient.
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Re: Turkey gravy

by Jo Ann Henderson » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:46 am

I have found that gravy, like chili, chowder and cornbread, is purely personal. Everyone has their favorite and special way of preparing it. Chef will give you the specifics later. However, the one thing all good gravies need are a flavor component, liquid and thickener. What you choose to create the alchemy we recognize as gravy is widely variable. Whether you have enough or the right ingredients to deliver a flavorful fond to you for using as your flavor component depends upon how you prepare the bird. If you fry it, there will be none. If you brine it, what you will have from the baking process will be a generous amount of liquid, but it may (not) be suitable for the type of gravy you are seeking. If you cook it on the grill, that will add another flavor dimension that will probably not be gravy worthy. If you prepare the bird the traditional way, you will have a beautiful fond but not enough liquid to make enough gravy to go around without supplementing it with either water or stock.

The same goes for the thickener. Flour and oil to make a roux will give color and body, but what you end up with will be highly dependent on your cooking time (for the roux) and your ability to marry these together. Some people brown the flour without the benefit of oil -- in a dry pan or in the oven -- but I have found that to be pretty iffy and not worth the time without the flavor and body of the fat. Then, thee is cornstarch, arrowroot and other thickeners. This will produce something recognizable as gravy, but I would call it neither gravy nor sauce! Jenise is right, adding a bit of wine (red or white - and a few herbs) and/or other spirits makes all the difference between something Granny did and something possibly worthy of Bon Appetit. :wink:

Take it away, Chef!
"...To undersalt deliberately in the name of dietary chic is to omit from the music of cookery the indispensable bass line over which all tastes and smells form their harmonies." -- Robert Farrar Capon
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Re: Turkey gravy

by Ian H » Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:25 am

Well well,

Something I actually know something about! I don't cook Turkey (sorry all your Thanksgiving day traditionalists), but I make gravy with all the other meats that I roast. I never use Bisto or any other "gravy granules" which in my view make a brown goo that looks approximately like gravy, but has a samey overlay of flavour no matter what meat you have roasted. I've been making my own gravy in this way for 50 years, so most things that can go wrong have gone wrong for me!

So for my money, a gravy should be there primarily to enhance and complement the meat you are roasting. While it should be thickened, it shouldn't be "stand a spoon up" thick, nothing like. n my view it's better to have one too thin than too thick (but that's merely my opinion. Ideally, nearly all the flavour in a gravy should come from the meal you are serving, so meat fat, meat juices and possibly some of the water in which you may have boiled or parboiled vegetables if there's aren't quite enough pan juices. If you use meat that's been very well hung (stop sniggering) then evaporation of liquids from the interior of the meat (loses 10% of its weight per week's hanging) will tend to reduce the amount leaching out during the roasting process, and if you roast hot, what little does come out can burn and caramelise, so you will need to take steps to be able to use the meat juices later - a little red (for beef, lamb/mutton & furred game) or white (pork, most poultry, veal) wine will tend to prevent too much caramelisation taking place, even water or stock are better than nothing. By the way "fond" is exactly the same as the English word stock made to sound chic by frenchifying it. Keep an eye on what's happening in the pan during roasting, so that your meat juices don't burn.

When the meat has finished cooking, it will be put in a warmish place to rest for up to 20 minutes for a small joint and even up to an hour for a large one. During that time, some juices can come out, pour off keep them aside to add to the gravy. Technically, it is this juice pouring out of a large roast which should be called jus in french. Nothing else.

Now to start making the gravy proper. You need to make a roux, but you can't do this if you have a lot of water based meat juices present under the fat, so...take the roasting pan, assuming it is sufficiently sturdy to be heated over the hob, and examine the juices. If there are a lot, pour off the lot from the pan, deglaze the roasting pan with a little wine (add wine, (stock\water for those who can't/won't cook with wine) and add these to the pan residue. Continue making the gravy in a saucepan as it's a lot less cumbersome. If there are only a couple of tablespoons of juices with the fat, then it's probably best to reduce that to a glaze by heating the pan on the hob while whisking all the time to prevent it spattering. You don't want to burn them all the same. When the liquids have reduced to a goo, you will be able to deal with the fat, just as you will if the pan juices had gone dry towards the end of the roasting. You may find you need to remove some of the fat ( AKA the drippings). In principle, you need roughly the same weight of fat as flour, and it takes about 1/2 oz flour to thicken 1/2 pint of liquid, so depending upon how much gravy you're going to want, you need to try to work out roughly how much fat to use/leave in the pan. If you had a lot of liquid and poured the lot out of the pan, then you'll make a better gravy if you separate fat and juice, and put as much fat as you need in a saucepan.

Either way, heat the fat and when fairly hot (not smoking) add enough flour to make a good roux. If you're making the gravy in the roasting pan, you will need to use a wire whisk to incorporate all the crusty bits/ glaze into the roux. I sometimes like to put in a tsp or so of brown sugar which will caramelise a bit and deepen the colour. Anyway, when you get the pan residues incorporated into the roux as best you can, without burning anything, whisk in whatever liquid you're using. It may be the cooking liquid from vegetables, or meat juices, or if you don't have either, some stock. I tend to try to make some simple stock from the trimmings of whatever I'm roasting. Chicken giblets, wing tips etc for a chicken, the excess bones from lamb etc. They are boiled up and simmered while the meat is roasting. Some extra wine does no harm. The more flavoursome this liquid is, the better the gravy. Continue heating and stirring, and bring to the boil. Turn down and simmer while carrying out the seasoning. If there were few pan juices, and you don't have either veg cooking juices or stock, you'll have had to use something for flavour and a tin of broth is better than using a stock cube, though it can be used "in extremis", if you do that's no longer really going to be a real gravy from the roast.

I often find that the gravy is improved with a good slurp of wine, maybe some port. Tomato ketchup can be quite a useful addition as can worcestershire sauce and mushroom ketchup. A pinch or two of herbs often round out the flavour if it was a bit light. When the gravy is seasoned and flavoured to your taste, that's it. It halps to simmer a ittle longer, in case there are still some unincorporated crusty bits. When ready to serve, strain through a fine sieve into a gravy boat and serve.

Hope that is all reasonably clear. Gravy making is not hard and the reason this was long, is because there are so many different possibilities (meats, dryness etc).
--
All the best
Ian (in France)
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Re: Turkey gravy

by ChefJCarey » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:02 am

Y'all are having fun without me. :)
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Re: Turkey gravy

by Karen/NoCA » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:54 pm

During the summer, we often put those big Foster Farms, bone-in turkey breasts on the grill. We love them for entertaining close friends at a casual pool party setting. They make great sandwiches, enchiladas, etc. as leftovers. I save all the drippings and brown bits from all of them in Food Saver bags. Homemade turkey or chicken stock is always in my freezer. Here is my recipe for make ahead gravy, because I will not make it on Thanksgiving day. I'm too busy visiting.

RCP:

Homemade Gravy
Yield: 3 cups
1/4 pound unsalted butter
1 1/2 cups chopped yellow onions
1/4 cup browned flour
1 tsp kosher salt
1/2 freshly ground black pepper
defatted turkey drippings plus chicken stock to make 2 cups, heated
1 tablespoon Cognac or brandy
1 tablespoon white wine
1 tablespoon heavy cream

Sauté onions in butter until onions are golden. Sprinkle the flour into the pan, whisk in, then add the salt and pepper. Add the hot chicken stock and Cognac and cook uncovered for 4 to 5 minutes until thickened. Add the wine and cream, check seasonings and correct to taste.
I make this one day ahead and gently reheat.
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Re: Turkey gravy

by wnissen » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:08 pm

Ahh, I get it. There are two products of the roasting, fat and jus. I'm rotisserieing our bird, so I should have both in reasonably ample supply. Making it tonight is tempting, though. I'll have the bird in hand this evening, and have plenty of homemade stock in the freezer. They say never to make a recipe for Thanksgiving that you haven't made before, and gravy definitely counts. Thanks all for your help.

Walt
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