Why I had to leave The OC

[Jenise]

Here's a list of the best restaurants in Orange County, California, as compiled by the Orange County Register based on reader votes. Note that the top contender, and in some cases all three top contenders, are usually chain restaurants. I just howled as I went through the list, to be honest. Finally clicked on "microbrewery" thinking okay, here's a category they can't screw up. But they did! BJ's is a local chain, but it's still a chain with at least one location in every town (and one that 20 years ago had great food but, in the way of all chains, they've found ways to streamline the food with readily available restaurant supply ingredients and all the character and integrity's gone out of what they do.) Microbrew my ass!

http://www.ocregister.com/best/sections/boc/eating-drinking/

Btw, anyone ever see the movie Orange County? It's a scream--and OC really IS like that!

LOL Jenise, that list is embarrassing! To be fair, it's gotta reflect one dumbo's 'non-taste', cuz nobody with any idea of actual fine-dining would have chosen what' on the lists and certainly wouldn't have made chain restos order of the day.
I've been to OC often and can certify that there are lots of very excellent restos, none of which appear to be on these lists!

[Jenise]

LOL Jenise, that list is embarrassing! To be fair, it's gotta reflect one dumbo's 'non-taste', cuz nobody with any idea of actual fine-dining would have chosen what' on the lists and certainly wouldn't have made chain restos order of the day.
I've been to OC often and can certify that there are lots of very excellent restos, none of which appear to be on these lists!

I'll bet you clicked on "Best Deli" first. Subway and Quiznos! It never even crossed my mind that 'Subway' could be considered deli. Oh vey, what a travesty. And Chinese: PF Chang's and Pick Up Stix. Arghhhh. Didn't look at the Barbecue category but wouldn't be surprised if Applebee's or Claim Jumper didn't win that category. But that's what makes Orange County Orange County, a certain white bready desire to have everything formulaic and recognizable with emphasis more on portion size and accessibility than quality and inspiration--the kind of certainty that makes chains so successful. Sure, there are the occasional havens for the foodies in the know, but we saw way too many of them close too quickly over the years we lived there, either due to poor attendance, too high rents (a particularly OC problem with so much real estate in the control of high flyers like the Koll Corporation who wouldn't rent to anyone who didn't already have a million dollar business to prove they could do it again), or a particularly good chef's desire to move on in search of a more sophisticated clientele to feed. Rarely did the good ones stick around.

<Snort!> Those aren't deli's. What are they smoking in OC? My idea of a deli is something like we encountered in Glen Ellen, inside a local, non-chain market. Sandwiches to order, hot or cold and a virtual smorgasbord of sides. I wish I could find one like that here in Phoenix.

Jenise - the BBQ category made me curious, so I peeked. I didn't recognize any as chains, but the might be So-Cal chains that I've never heard of.

We lived in the LA area for many years and OC was always considered a foodie desert. Of course over the years there have been exceptions but considering the population in OC, very few exceptions. We still have food and wine friends in SO. CA and they say things haven't really changed.

If you go to the referenced website that Jenise provided, you'll see a click-on that says "How Voters Picked Winners".

And there you will see:

"How voters picked winners

The Orange County Register

For the 16th year, we asked for your opinions about the people and places that make Orange County such a great place to live. You swamped us with a record number of votes with expanded online voting.

Once again, you'll find within these pages a unique list of Orange County success stories, from local entrepreneurs who started industry-leading corporations to couples and families who still do the simple things the way they did decades ago.

For the second year, we bring you an expanded Neighborhood chapter, with even more of those around-the-corner places you love, or will love if you take our voters' advice. You'll find a winner in almost every city in each of 10 categories, where voters were asked to focus on specific neighborhood businesses.

In all, the 130 categories in the 2009 Best of Orange County survey cover the O.C. lifestyle categories of eating and drinking, entertainment, places, recreation, and shopping and services. The Register placed ballots in its regular editions and on its Web site. Votes were cast by mail or online, with cash prizes awarded to four randomly selected voters.

We welcome your thoughts and suggestions for future categories. Send your comments to best@ocregister.com.

All winners have been selected by the public."

Looks to me like the Register did a decent job of letting the (Register-reading-and-responding) population of the OC vote for their favorite restaurants. People get what they allow themselves to get. Or want.

And by the way, having been required to visit the OC numerous times for business (regional office located there) I can join the chorus with what everyone else is saying about the great foodie wasteland there. I'll never forget the first time I went there on business in the 90s and was taken to what was touted as one of the top restaurants consistently---and it was a dead ringer for a Steak 'n' Ale!!!

Honestly, Jenise, that list doesn't surprise me much, and I don't think that it says as much about OC (I refuse to use that confounded article as I never heard any resident use it in my time there) as it does about popularity contests. Thinking about my own community, the most popular restaurants would probably be the Olive Garden, BW3 and Outback, judging from the crowded states of their parking lots at all hours. That doesn't mean that there aren't good dining options here, as indeed there are, but rather that popularity and quality rarely equate. After all, how many of the 100 bestselling wines do you buy for personal consumption?

Mark Lipton

It also has to do with name recognition. Someone that eats at Olive Garden regularly might not remember the name of the vastly superior Italian restaurant they ate in last year because it had some "weird Eye-Talian name" they cannot remember. So their vote goes to Olive Garden.

Honestly, Jenise, that list doesn't surprise me much, and I don't think that it says as much about OC (I refuse to use that confounded article as I never heard any resident use it in my time there) as it does about popularity contests. Thinking about my own community, the most popular restaurants would probably be the Olive Garden, BW3 and Outback, judging from the crowded states of their parking lots at all hours. That doesn't mean that there aren't good dining options here, as indeed there are, but rather that popularity and quality rarely equate. After all, how many of the 100 bestselling wines do you buy for personal consumption?

Mark Lipton

My community too. In fact, I have complained on this forum about the fact that Pinehurst is a real restaurant wasteland. There are a few decent high-end restaurants, but they are EXTREMELY inconsistent. Enough so that we don't want to spend the money to take a risk.
Coincidentally, we did just get a brand, spanking new Olive Garden. Everytime we drive by it, there is a line out the door to get in. We don't have any wonderful "EyeTalian" restaurants here, so we thought we'd see what the bid deal was. We figured maybe their food had improved in the eons since we'd been in one. Plus, their commercials sure make the food look good. Well, WRONG. It was awful. Almost inedible really. An "OTO" (or One Time Only) as we say....

Speaking of Olive Garden, I'm reminded of one of the earliest seasons of the TV show "The Bachelor." It was the one with Andrew Firestone (of Firestone Vineyards--and tires.) He was on one of his "finalist" dates and asked the hair twirler what her favorite restaurant was. He made a face or guffawed when she said, "Olive Garden." She said, "What's the matter? You don't like Italian food?" Needless to say, she was not the one he asked to marry.

Honestly, Jenise, that list doesn't surprise me much, and I don't think that it says as much about OC (I refuse to use that confounded article as I never heard any resident use it in my time there) as it does about popularity contests. Thinking about my own community, the most popular restaurants would probably be the Olive Garden, BW3 and Outback, judging from the crowded states of their parking lots at all hours. That doesn't mean that there aren't good dining options here, as indeed there are, but rather that popularity and quality rarely equate. After all, how many of the 100 bestselling wines do you buy for personal consumption?

Mark Lipton

Convoluted reasoning to defend OC? My sister lives in San Clemente, we have with lantern in hand like "Diognes" looked for decent restaurants and come up wanting.

Jenise, check out this list, maybe you'll visit for a week or two!
http://best.lovetoknow.com/Best_Restaur ... California

I think those readers' polls tend to end up this way. Sacramento Magazine does one annually, and Biba Caggiano's place is often beat out by Olive Garden for "Best Italian". Even the Old Spaghetti Factory has placed.

I think anyone in Sacramento who cares about what they eat knows better, but the poll results are what they are.

[Jenise]

Jenise, check out this list, maybe you'll visit for a week or two!
http://best.lovetoknow.com/Best_Restaur ... California

Some interesting names there. Notably, Bistango, which has had an incredible run of like 25 years now. Very unusual for Orange County, patricularly a restaurant located in the ground floor of a high rise in the middle of the high rise section of town meaning your average housewife never drives past it.

Also, Marche Moderne, which the list says replaced Troquet, one of the few havens for foodies in OC though not a restaurant that would have been especially notable in Los Angeles or New York, and established by an entrepeneurial ex-chef couple who have opened many successful eateries in Orange County. I believe they also tried to move in on the L.A. scene, opening a restaurant in a swank remodeled hotel on Santa Monica's Ocean Avenue, whose name I can't recall. I'd swear there's a V in the name, either the hotel's or the restaurants. Viceroy? Don't know if that succeeded or not. His name is Tim, last name is I think a single syllable but for the life of me I can't remember it now.

Most of the others, I don't know. A place I'm surprised to see not on that list, though in fact it could well be gone by now cuz it was a deliberately throwbacky (to the kind of American restaurant known as "continental" in Southern California in the 60's-70's), is The Ritz on Fashion Island.

[Jenise]

I think anyone in Sacramento who cares about what they eat knows better, but the poll results are what they are.

Oh sure, and I understand the suburb mentality that votes in these polls. Every town has its Olive Gardens. But the Orange County problem isn't just that those exist and that the denizens generally flock to those, what I'm really talking about here and which Lou reinforces, is the paucity of stand-out alternatives to chain restaurants as well as the relative mediorcreness of the independents that manage to start up. The Orange Countians who care about what they eat and know better are a vast minority, so things don't change.

Jenise, check out this list, maybe you'll visit for a week or two!
http://best.lovetoknow.com/Best_Restaur ... California

Some interesting names there. Notably, Bistango, which has had an incredible run of like 25 years now. Very unusual for Orange County, patricularly a restaurant located in the ground floor of a high rise in the middle of the high rise section of town meaning your average housewife never drives past it.

Also, Marche Moderne, which the list says replaced Troquet, one of the few havens for foodies in OC though not a restaurant that would have been especially notable in Los Angeles or New York, and established by an entrepeneurial ex-chef couple who have opened many successful eateries in Orange County. I believe they also tried to move in on the L.A. scene, opening a restaurant in a swank remodeled hotel on Santa Monica's Ocean Avenue, whose name I can't recall. I'd swear there's a V in the name, either the hotel's or the restaurants. Viceroy? Don't know if that succeeded or not. His name is Tim, last name is I think a single syllable but for the life of me I can't remember it now.

Most of the others, I don't know. A place I'm surprised to see not on that list, though in fact it could well be gone by now cuz it was a deliberately throwbacky (to the kind of American restaurant known as "continental" in Southern California in the 60's-70's), is The Ritz on Fashion Island.

Your "restaurant reporter" can supply you with the info!
The couple you're trying to remember are Tim and Liza Goodell, who struck out with 2 different restos in the same location in West Hollywood, the last one called "Red Pearl", but who have scored bigtime with 2 restos in the refurbished Hollywood Rossevelt Hotel, a steak house called the Dakota and a 24 hours upscale burger joint called "25 Degrees".
The Ritz in Newport Beach is alive and well after going through some bad times when the founder, Hans Prager, was bought out and the new owner damn near ran it into the ground. It's now under new management and I hear pretty much back on track, but haven't been to check it out yet.

Convoluted reasoning to defend OC? My sister lives in San Clemente, we have with lantern in hand like "Diognes" looked for decent restaurants and come up wanting.

Pshaw! There's awesome Vietnamese cooking in Santa Ana. You want more, Lou?

Banh mi forever!
Mark Lipton

Convoluted reasoning to defend OC? My sister lives in San Clemente, we have with lantern in hand like "Diognes" looked for decent restaurants and come up wanting.

Pshaw! There's awesome Vietnamese cooking in Santa Ana. You want more, Lou?

Banh mi forever!
Mark Lipton

The Garden Grove vicintiy and it's group of Asian restaurants is IMHO the absolute center of good food in OC. The only center IMHO.

[Jenise]

Your "restaurant reporter" can supply you with the info!
The couple you're trying to remember are Tim and Liza Goodell, who struck out with 2 different restos in the same location in West Hollywood, the last one called "Red Pearl", but who have scored bigtime with 2 restos in the refurbished Hollywood Rossevelt Hotel, a steak house called the Dakota and a 24 hours upscale burger joint called "25 Degrees".
The Ritz in Newport Beach is alive and well after going through some bad times when the founder, Hans Prager, was bought out and the new owner damn near ran it into the ground. It's now under new management and I hear pretty much back on track, but haven't been to check it out yet.

You are totally right, Tim and Liza Goodell. They opened a Red Pearl in Huntington Beach about ten or so years ago and it was, initially, quite fabulous. Pan-Asian in ways not yet covered or branded by Wolfgang Puck. But quality and consistency fell off dramatically, and before we could blink the restaurant reinvented itself as a nightclub by 9 p.m., and the food became oriented to feeding 20-somethings after too many martinis. Last I knew it was still quite successful, but the dining clientele was no longer paying the bills.

The Santa Monica restaurant I remember was called Whist, and indeed it was at the Viceroy. They opened a Dakota in Costa Mesa but I never went. My husband did though, and I recall him not being impressed. Nice that they're scoring some hits in L.A.

Hans Prager, YES. When I was single, the Ritz was one of my favorite watering holes. Liked the clubby, throwback elegance, and the food wasn't bad either. Interesting to know it's still there.