Raw Seafood and Meat: comparative health risks

A very good friend of mine eats no meat (no fowl, no hooved critters, no game, etc.), and explains to me that it is to avoid the very real health risks associated with the source's potential animal diseases, poor meat handling practices, parasites and spoilage. She eats sushi and raw seafoods freely as part of her diet, several times each week.

She thinks that I, rather than she, is exposed to far greater risk of illness or disease from food poisoning and food-transmitted parasites. I eat a diet of generally Euro-American dishes, but I do not eat any raw animal or fish, flesh or blood. I like lamb fairly rare. The rationale of her eating habits within this narrow context seems incongruous to me, but of course not to her. And vice versa.

I guess the reasonable layman's take is that each eating style has its own risks for food-borne disease and parasites, not that one is necessarily linked to worse problems de facto. The driving issue for me is that I had food-borne hepatitis while in college and was advised againt eating raw seafood again. So, does anyone here have a line on this, a somewhat informed opinion as to what comprises actual comparative health risks of ingesting raw seafood compared to the risks of meats ? I'm not thinking in terms of third world food service problems. Thanks for your thoughts.

Here's an off-the-cuff answer: cooked food is safer than raw food. Her consumption of sushi should be a risk-factor to her.

A world without boeuf tartare in the traditional mannner - that is to say, with a raw egg broken into an indentation in the beef - would be a sad world indeed.

As might be said: Render under Caesar what is Caesar's and unto your butcher* what is due to your butcher. In other word's don't eat raw beef (or fish, or eggs) in a restaurant or from a supplier that you don't trust fully, but if you do trust them, go all the way!

Best
Rogov


* Substitute if you wish the word fishmonger for butcher.

A very good friend of mine eats no meat (no fowl, no hooved critters, no game, etc.), and explains to me that it is to avoid the very real health risks associated with the source's potential animal diseases, poor meat handling practices, parasites and spoilage. She eats sushi and raw seafoods freely as part of her diet, several times each week.

If one eats locally raised meat and fowl - where the animals are allowed to eat their natural diet, there is no overcrowding and no antibiotics or steroids are used - there is virtually no health risk involved. Beef raised on natural pasture has nearly the Omega-3s found in seafood. And the ratio of 3s to 6s is nearly perfect. Sanitation and disease are not a problem.

I have absolutely no problem eating rare and even raw beef from these sources.

Same with pasture raised lamb, sheep, goats, chickens etc. I eat eggs from free range chickens several times per week.

She has not done her homework about either the land or sea based varmints. If she eats that much seafood she is in very real danger of heavy metal toxicity. And unless she is eating only in the top grade sushi restaurants she doesn't know what she is getting. And I sincerely hope she is not trying to prepare sushi at home using raw seafood. Of course here I am assuming she has no background in identifying various nematodes etc.

Sure, I eat sushi, too. Love it. But, I professionally bought and cooked seafood for several decades.

Here's a place she can start.

http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/sushi.asp

And the next time anyone is thinking, "Wow, that salmon there in the supermarket sure is inexpensive I think I'll buy it!"

http://www.ewg.org/reports/farmedpcbs

My wife's lab has done a lot of analytical work on farmed fish and the feed they're given. She won't touch the stuff.

Re pasture-fed critters and "virtually" no health risk...while not disputing the basic premise, that's an awful lot of trust to place in an environment when so many random factors could, and can contribute to that environment becoming toxic/diseased in a very short time and so at least impact the animals feeding there, and at worst infecting them.
Like practically everything else, a little caution goes a long way toward safetey.

It's certainly true that as far as multicellular parasites such as worms go, you're less likely to be infected with parasites from fish and seafood than those infesting land animals. The beef tapeworm, for example, has a two-stage life cycle. The adult inhabits the intestines of predators such as dogs and wolves. Eggs are deposited on grass in the feces of the host. Grazing deer, cattle, and other such herbivores ingest the eggs, which hatch into larvae that enter the bloodstream of their host and eventually encyst in the animal's muscle tissue. This weakens the host, making it more likely to be killed or scavenged by the carnivore. The adult worms grow from the cyst, attach to the intestinal walls of the carnivore, and the cycle starts over. Humans barge into this cycle when they eat uncooked flesh that's infested by the worm cysts. Modern meat inspection has mostly eliminated the phenomenon of measly beef (beef visibly infested by worm cysts), but it's not 100% effective. Whenever steak tartare comes into temporary fashion, there is a spike in the incidence of human infection by tapeworms.

Land mammals for the most part aren't hooked into the life cycles of parasites of sea creatures in this way. There is a parasitic worm that infects tuna that can cause problems for humans who consume sushi, but it's pretty rare.

Micro-parasites, such as bacteria, and their toxins, are more of a problem with fish and especially filter-feeding shellfish (e.g., clams, mussels, oysters) or scavengers (e.g., crabs, lobsters). Fish and seafood spoil far more readily when dead than flesh from land-based animals. Filter-feeding shellfish can have guts that harbor bacteria-laden particulate matter from sewage dumped into the sea, as well as seaborne toxins such as those of the dinoflagellate that causes red tide. I've personally heard of a lot more food poisoning caused by consuming bad shellfish than from bad meat.

And we haven't even started on toxins such as pesticides and heavy metals.

Bottom line, IMO, is that each carries its own health risks. One can control the risk for land animals because they're farmed and you can buy from sources you know you can trust. Seafood for the most part is caught in the wild, and you have no idea where that fish may have been.

-Paul W.

A world without boeuf tartare in the traditional mannner - that is to say, with a raw egg broken into an indentation in the beef - would be a sad world indeed.

That sounds like it would be quite tasty - fried.

I had Boeuf Tartare on the menu of a restaurant I did in San Francisco. Ground the tenderloin to order for it.

One night - late, I was just shutting down the kitchen - a drunk came in and ordered it. I would grind the meat and set the plate up and a waiter would finish the service at the table. The waiter did his number and came back to the kitchen laughing five minutes later. He had the dish in his hand.

"What's wrong?" I asked.

"He says it's too rare for his taste."

I cranked the grill back up.

Re pasture-fed critters and "virtually" no health risk...while not disputing the basic premise, that's an awful lot of trust to place in an environment when so many random factors could, and can contribute to that environment becoming toxic/diseased in a very short time and so at least impact the animals feeding there, and at worst infecting them.
Like practically everything else, a little caution goes a long way toward safetey.

Know thy farmer.

I'm surprised no one jumped on it. I was not advocating eating rare or raw chicken!

Interesting that you should mention eating raw chicken. Our old Conejo dinner group had a professional chef come over and cook for one event at Steve Grossman's home, our host site that evening. The chef prepared many dishes, leading with a raw chicken appetizer, which he said was a safe way to eat the meat for healthy adults. My wife and I declined the dish, but most of our group (ten diners) jumped on it; no one reported becoming ill.

I felt a little ill just thinking about eating it. I do not eat undercooked chicken, ever.

raw chicken ain't food until it has been well and thoroughly cooked!

I have a friend who told me that he ate a raw chicken dish in Japan that was considered a delicacy. He said it was quite good.

I'd probably give it a shot if I trusted the chef.

The chef I mentioned earlier is Japanese. His food that night was in all other respects, raw and cooked, fabulous. I wish I could remember his name. Maybe Steve Grossman is watching this board these days and will chime in here.

Theoretically, it might be possible to get me drunk enough to eat raw meat, fish or fowl, but that is the only way I would do it. I do not care who the chef is, or how big his/her reputation is, the very thought of raw animal products in my mouth brings the gag reflex on in force.

Robert,

Yours is a very valid and common perspective, yes. My in-laws in Central Florida would no more eat sushi that lick a
cable carrying 220v. They make a point of calling sushi "what it is, bait".

There's a restaurant in NYC called "Esca", which, I have been told, is Italian for "bait". They sell raw fish for dinner.

A world without boeuf tartare in the traditional mannner - that is to say, with a raw egg broken into an indentation in the beef - would be a sad world indeed.

As might be said: Render under Caesar what is Caesar's and unto your butcher* what is due to your butcher. In other word's don't eat raw beef (or fish, or eggs) in a restaurant or from a supplier that you don't trust fully, but if you do trust them, go all the way!

Best
Rogov


* Substitute if you wish the word fishmonger for butcher.

Absolutely agree!
I worked in a Thai restaurant for 6 years, and ate rare meat and raw fish and seafood almost every night...
I was the manager and alongside the chef in 'quality control'.... Ahh, the best job of my life....

Never had health problems related....
However, if a person is naturaly allergic or simply their body can't take it, then I suggest they avoid it....

There's a restaurant in NYC called "Esca", which, I have been told, is Italian for "bait". They sell raw fish for dinner.

There is a restaurant here in Yokohama which specializes in horse(pronounced "ba" in japanese) and deer meat(pronounced "ka"), cooked or raw. Their signature dish is one with both horse and deer which is therefore pronounced "baka" which is also the japanese word for stupid.

I have only recently moved to Japan and several of my japanese coworkers and I are planning on eating there within the next week or two. I have never had horse meat before and it is illegal where I came from, California.

There's a restaurant in NYC called "Esca", which, I have been told, is Italian for "bait". They sell raw fish for dinner.

There is a restaurant here in Yokohama which specializes in horse(pronounced "ba" in japanese) and deer meat(pronounced "ka"), cooked or raw. Their signature dish is one with both horse and deer which is therefore pronounced "baka" which is also the japanese word for stupid.

I have only recently moved to Japan and several of my japanese coworkers and I are planning on eating there within the next week or two. I have never had horse meat before and it is illegal where I came from, California.

We have a term for deer meat here and it is called "Venison". Or known as "good eaten".

There's a restaurant in NYC called "Esca", which, I have been told, is Italian for "bait". They sell raw fish for dinner.

There is a restaurant here in Yokohama which specializes in horse(pronounced "ba" in japanese) and deer meat(pronounced "ka"), cooked or raw. Their signature dish is one with both horse and deer which is therefore pronounced "baka" which is also the japanese word for stupid.

I have only recently moved to Japan and several of my japanese coworkers and I are planning on eating there within the next week or two. I have never had horse meat before and it is illegal where I came from, California.

We have a term for deer meat here and it is called "Venison". Or known as "good eaten".

Damn straight, Dave. Especially if one shoots the deer oneself.