From scratch

What does this mean to you ?

I am thinking about this because I was invited to dinner last night with dear friends
who epitomize what I consider "from scratch". Every bit of food was of their hands and more.
All produce/herbs/garlic from their garden but not from commercial plants or seeds- from seeds
they saved, germinated and planted. The lamb from their yard, again not simply raising the kids but
keeping the parents for successive years. The bread made with their own wheat, starter etc....you get
the idea.
I do not have the facilities or time to do such but as much as possible I try to go back as far
as possible in the process of producing what we eat. It's sort of a mission to see exactly how self
sufficient I can be. I find it interesting, even exciting and I realize, a luxury.

What do they do to earn a living?

What does this mean to you ?

I am thinking about this because I was invited to dinner last night with dear friends
who epitomize what I consider "from scratch". Every bit of food was of their hands and more.
All produce/herbs/garlic from their garden but not from commercial plants or seeds- from seeds
they saved, germinated and planted. The lamb from their yard, again not simply raising the kids but
keeping the parents for successive years. The bread made with their own wheat, starter etc....you get
the idea.
I do not have the facilities or time to do such but as much as possible I try to go back as far
as possible in the process of producing what we eat. It's sort of a mission to see exactly how self
sufficient I can be. I find it interesting, even exciting and I realize, a luxury.

Cristina, to me "from scratch' simply means it was created from the raw ingredients. The way your friends do it, not one in a thousand could ever cook "from Scratch" Did they mill their own flour? Do they butcher their own meat...all of it? where would I keep a steer in order to do that on my little suburban lot? Nah, to me it simply means made from the ingredients and not from a box of premixed components.

I always thought that "from scratch" referred to preparing something without knowledge of the recipe for that food--thought up on your own from ingredients you have around you.

Yeah, and what do they do for a living?

I always thought that "from scratch" referred to preparing something without knowledge of the recipe for that food--

FWIW, I have never heard that definition.

I always used it to mean that there were no pre-packaged ingredients like jarred tomato sauce, cake mix, etc.

Also, while I'm typing, I will never say never, but at this point I can't really imagine wanting to spend that much time getting food onto my plate. I already spend a good amount of time cooking 'from scratch' (using my definition) and I can barely imagine gardening. I'm still at the stage of life where there are many things I want to accomplish in my career and thereby hopefully influence the world. Perhaps when I'm older and more jaded I'll turn to this farming business

Christina -

Your friends definitely take the idea much farther than most would. By their apparent standards, virtually no one cooks from scratch. I think most of us would just go with Rahsaan's definition.

I always thought that "from scratch" referred to preparing something without knowledge of the recipe for that food--

FWIW, I have never heard that definition.

I always used it to mean that there were no pre-packaged ingredients like jarred tomato sauce, cake mix, etc.

Also, while I'm typing, I will never say never, but at this point I can't really imagine wanting to spend that much time getting food onto my plate. I already spend a good amount of time cooking 'from scratch' (using my definition) and I can barely imagine gardening. I'm still at the stage of life where there are many things I want to accomplish in my career and thereby hopefully influence the world. Perhaps when I'm older and more jaded I'll turn to this farming business

Actually, it's the second part of what i posted that carries more weight--cooking the food from whatever ingredients you have around you.

Rahsaan, don't knock either farming or being jaded, although I don't think the two go together well...

The reason I grow food is to keep the pesticides out of my gullet--that and the fact that they really do taste better, even if they look worse.

I admit, however, it would be nice not to have to earn a living in that pesky manner that takes me away from the garden. Although thinking can be done, writing can't be done while cultivating the earth.

Comes under the heading of, commendable ambition and completely unrealistic.

Comes under the heading of, commendable ambition and completely unrealistic.

Please, I'm trying to hold onto my dreams

What does this mean to you ?

It reminds me of Michael Pollan's activities in "Omnivore's Dilemma." The whole exercise strikes me as more intellectual/philosophical/political than esthetic in nature, but if it works for them... bravo!

Mark Lipton
(who's happy to let others grow most of the foods that he cooks)

Another vote for "from scratch" meaning no pre-packaged ingredients. I say that I make pizza from scratch, even if I don't grind my own 00 flour or make my own bufala (not a lot of water buffalo in my neighborhood).

But I am also a gardener and have had many years of my life where we did grow nearly all the food we consumed. It isn't completely unrealistic. It's just a matter of how you allocate resources - time, money, energy - and what you consider important. Life is always about trade-offs.

We have small family farmers in my extended family as well.

Comes under the heading of, commendable ambition and completely unrealistic.

Please, I'm trying to hold onto my dreams

LOL Thomas, would never do that to you, pleasant dreams...or is that supposed to read dream on!

[Robin Garr]

Since this thread seems to have drifted off into a debate/discussion about what "from scratch" means, I'd like to pull it back on track long enough to say that I think the IDEA sounds really cool, and I would love to attend a dinner like that, although not to try to do it myself.

Christina, can you tell us more about the courses?

(And as long as I'm typing, I'm pretty sure that "from scratch" means using basic ingredients, not prepared foods. Biscuits with flour and shortening, not Bisquik. Cakes with cake flour, sugar and eggs, not Duncan Hines. Your definitions might vary, but I'm thinking that you could actually look this one up. )

Since this thread seems to have drifted off into a debate/discussion about what "from scratch" means, I'd like to pull it back on track long enough to say that I think the IDEA sounds really cool, and I would love to attend a dinner like that, although not to try to do it myself.

Christina, can you tell us more about the courses?

(And as long as I'm typing, I'm pretty sure that "from scratch" means using basic ingredients, not prepared foods. Biscuits with flour and shortening, not Bisquik. Cakes with cake flour, sugar and eggs, not Duncan Hines. Your definitions might vary, but I'm thinking that you could actually look this one up. )

Ok, so here's the official definition of the phrase "from scratch." I've always thought of it as the definition in number 2.

1. From the very beginning.

2. From the beginning; starting with no advantage or prior preparation; starting from raw ingredients.

3. Using basic ingredients instead of a prepared mix.

I do not have the facilities or time to do such but as much as possible I try to go back as far
as possible in the process of producing what we eat. It's sort of a mission to see exactly how self
sufficient I can be. I find it interesting, even exciting and I realize, a luxury.

I'm with you, Christina.

I often say our aim is to be as far down the production ladder as our lifestyles allow. It's a nice goal.

To answer the questions: the couple live on a farmette- about 8 acres. He is a professional musician- performing and teaching . She is going to school to becone a nurse practitioner. He is the animal husband- raising lamb, goat, pork, rabbit, chicken, quail, guinea hen, geese, ducks. She is the fruit and vegetable gardner- canning/freezing/seed saving.

The menu: bread made with the neighbors wheat but home milled- used for crostini - chevre /3 kinds of kale/ mozz made from the neighbors organic milk and 3 different tomatoes - Brandywine, Green Zebra and Costoluto Genovese. Roasted multicolored fingerlings dug from the garden that morning dressed in olive oil and rosemary. Grilled, butterflied leg of lamb. Steamed Romano beans dressed with garlic and olive oil. Homemade ice cream with fresh Alpine strawberries. The only things sourced elsewhere - but from a nearby farm - wheat, milk/cream. The only thing from the store -olive oil, salt, sugar. Could not have been simpler but extraordinary for flavor and freshness. They do all the processing of the fowl but the larger animals go to town and return shrink wrapped.

The ultimate from scratch bread would start with planting the wheat seed. For myself, milling the wheat someone else grew is as close as I get. Mark is correct. It is much more of a philosophical/intellectual/ increasingly political endeavor. Shel is also correct - unrealistic to accomplish totally but trying to get close with a few things is very much within reach and for me, extremely rewarding.

I think the following link is very appropriate to this discussion, some interesting comments on what "from scratch" means and the 'fact' that celeb chefs use off-the-shelf products like Hellman's mayo and Heinz ketchup in recipes served in their restos.
http://www.joepastry.com/index.php?s=panisse

I think the following link is very appropriate to this discussion, some interesting comments on what "from scratch" means and the 'fact' that celeb chefs use off-the-shelf products like Hellman's mayo and Heinz ketchup in recipes served in their restos.
http://www.joepastry.com/index.php?s=panisse

A friend of mine, a classically trained French chef, bemoans the fact that even in France it is now virtually impossible to cook many classic French recipes because of health rules. Case in point is making sauce Espagnole, which begins with a beef stock that, if made correctly, requires a full day's cooking, and then is followed by an additional 8 hours of cooking spread over two days. Because French law now places tight restrictions on how long sauces can be stored, making -- let alone using -- sauce Espagnole is nigh unto impossible.

Mark Lipton

The Espagnole may be accomplished in one day. If one wants to carry on to a Demi-glace that takes another day.

[Jenise]

What does this mean to you ?

I am thinking about this because I was invited to dinner last night with dear friends
who epitomize what I consider "from scratch". Every bit of food was of their hands and more.
All produce/herbs/garlic from their garden but not from commercial plants or seeds- from seeds
they saved, germinated and planted. The lamb from their yard, again not simply raising the kids but
keeping the parents for successive years. The bread made with their own wheat, starter etc....you get
the idea.
I do not have the facilities or time to do such but as much as possible I try to go back as far
as possible in the process of producing what we eat. It's sort of a mission to see exactly how self
sufficient I can be. I find it interesting, even exciting and I realize, a luxury.

Like you, I do not have the facilities to live off the land. But I am more than impressed with people who live that elementally, like your friends, and I am fair bursting with pride on the days I prepare a meal with ingredients I've grown or, like the Dungeness I pulled out of the bay this morning, caught myself. And that has nothing to do with sport, rather it's the satisfaction of knowing you're preparing the freshest, cleanest, purest food possible. And too, it's about being a little less dependent. But is that the definition of "from scratch" to me? No, it's beyond and better than, but under normal circumstances Rahsaan's definition is the one I use.

I think several folks have it right here. "Scratch" is an amorphous word.

I think anything could be said to be prepared from scratch that takes no shortcuts, uses fresh food, no processed ingredients and is made entirely in one's kitchen by oneself - or at least by human hands. Beyond that...

I also agree with Rahsaan's definition. Your friends sound amazing though. Hell, I get excited when I can buy "locally grown" tomatoes.

I often say our aim is to be as far down the production ladder as our lifestyles allow.

Well said, Celia.
In the past I've lived in suburbs where keeping chickens was ok, and I had my own fresh eggs each day in return for a little care and concern. Where I live now, you can't keep chickens, but the ambition is to grow at least a portion of the fruit, herbs and vegetables we use. That fell in a heap over the last couple of years when lack of water interrupted the vege garden but we'll get there.

Matilda