The proper texture of BBQ style smoked beef brisket?

[Jenise]

Friends have recently acquired a smoker and are all over smoked beef brisket. I've had their efforts twice, and while it's been good the texture has been a bit dry, and the meat never reaches that fork-tender fall apart stage or well-cooked but juicy and hanging in one piece that would be either end of the scale for smoked beef brisket I had all two times I had it in Texas. The latter version had a very sweet crust which I loved, too.

Which begs the question, what IS a perfect smoked brisket? Would love to find out from you afficionados who are more familiar with this delicacy than I.

The key question I would ask is, what cut of brisket are they using?
If they are starting with the flat cut generally available to civilians, no amount of smoking will make it into the authentic que you recall.
You have to start with the packer cut, which is a pretty big piece of beef, approaching 20 lbs.

The dryness you describe makes me think they're using the flat.

I don't know about perfect, but when it comes out the way I like it, it has a dark, dark, hard to the bite crust, yielding to a very tender and moist interior with a texture not unlike the shredded beef you've probably had a million times at taco stands in L.A

[Jenise]

The key question I would ask is, what cut of brisket are they using?
If they are starting with the flat cut generally available to civilians, no amount of smoking will make it into the authentic que you recall.
You have to start with the packer cut, which is a pretty big piece of beef, approaching 20 lbs.

The dryness you describe makes me think they're using the flat.

I don't know about perfect, but when it comes out the way I like it, it has a dark, dark, hard to the bite crust, yielding to a very tender and moist interior with a texture not unlike the shredded beef you've probably had a million times at taco stands in L.A

Packer cut! Yes, that's the name they used--went to Seattle to get it because they couldn't buy the cut locally. But they're smaller than 20 lbs, the two they did last weekend were about 12 pounds each.

I like it the way you like it. But I loved it the other way, too--pink around the edges and very tender. In fact, it reminded me of some pastrami I had in Los Angeles that was a whole 'nother texture than any other pastrami I've had. I'm suddenly thinking of that appliance you described some restaurants as using for prime rib and wondering if they didn't use that to give it that almost steamed texture.

I've never met a brisket that I wouldn't trade for a smoked pork butt, hands down.

Barbecued brisket takes a LOT of time. And you most definitely need the packer cut--complete with the intervening layers of fat, which are what keeps the meat tender and juicy during the 12+ hour cooking process. It needs a long time of slow smoking and frequent basting. Properly done, it comes out as you describe your Texas experience--very tender, juicy, and with a bit of a crust.

I've read barbecue cookbooks that say brisket is the trickiest meat to barbecue. That certainly matches my experience. And it is hopeless if you don't have the full, untrimmed (e.g., packer cut) brisket.

-Paul W.

Barbecued brisket takes a LOT of time. And you most definitely need the packer cut--complete with the intervening layers of fat, which are what keeps the meat tender and juicy during the 12+ hour cooking process. It needs a long time of slow smoking and frequent basting. Properly done, it comes out as you describe your Texas experience--very tender, juicy, and with a bit of a crust.

I've read barbecue cookbooks that say brisket is the trickiest meat to barbecue. That certainly matches my experience. And it is hopeless if you don't have the full, untrimmed (e.g., packer cut) brisket.

-Paul W.

I was gonna say pretty much what you said, so you saved me that.

What Paul said, and...

The outside develops a nice crustiness that goes about 1/8 inch into the meat. Then there is a redish layer about 3/8 inch that transitions from dry to moist as the meat goes from redish to grayish brown.

The cooking temperature needs to be just right. Off the top of my head, I'd say that 160 F is about right. Much higher and the meat will dry out. You might also need a source of humidity to keep the smoking chamber from getting dry.

The type of smoker is crucial. The meat is hung or racked in a side chamber into which the warm smoke permeates. The heat is not below the meat, but in a separate chamber where the wood resides.

I tend to think that if you do not have the proper set up, you should not be smoking brisket. Buy it mail order and gently reheat wrapped in foil in a low temp oven.

I tend to think that if you do not have the proper set up, you should not be smoking brisket. Buy it mail order and gently reheat wrapped in foil in a low temp oven.

I think one can do a serviceable job, even in a Weber kettle, by carefully monitoring the temperature. While it won't be Texas 'cue, it will produce a flavorful, moist and tender product.
But temps are definitely key, and it's a huge chore to try and regulate them for the long period of time necessary. That's why whenever my family asks me to make it, I pretend as if I don't hear them.

Friends have recently acquired a smoker and are all over smoked beef brisket. I've had their efforts twice, and while it's been good the texture has been a bit dry, and the meat never reaches that fork-tender fall apart stage or well-cooked but juicy and hanging in one piece that would be either end of the scale for smoked beef brisket I had all two times I had it in Texas. The latter version had a very sweet crust which I loved, too.

Which begs the question, what IS a perfect smoked brisket? Would love to find out from you afficionados who are more familiar with this delicacy than I.

Jenise, as someone else told you the type of smoker one uses is crucial. It is crucial in several ways. one and perhaps most important is that with most cookers one needs to babysit the thing in order to insure a steady heat. Another is that ones needs moisture, which can be somewhat negated by placing some liquid in the cooking chamber (such as in the offset smoker). Also as someone said you need the whole brisket, point and flat, unseparated, cooked fat side down. One can take whatever fat that one trims off and place it on the flat to allow more moisture in that section. and I would do the cook at 275 degrees (steady) until the temperature (internal) reaches at least 170- 180 degrees. Here is a link to a bbq forum (ok it is the Kamado forum) but it has info and pictures, just scroll down the page. http://www.kamado.com/discus/messages/1/30013.html

Specifically, it's all a matter of taste and preference. If you like it -- it's proper! But, we each have our own way of getting to that proper product. Go for it!

275 F sounds like a high temperature for barbecue. I thought the 220-250 F range was used for 'cue.

-Paul W.

[Jenise]

What Paul said, and...

The outside develops a nice crustiness that goes about 1/8 inch into the meat. Then there is a redish layer about 3/8 inch that transitions from dry to moist as the meat goes from redish to grayish brown.

Yes! That's what I remember! My friend's doesn't have that, though, it's well-done brown edge to edge. From what I observed when I arrived, the thermometer said 164, so they were pretty good on temperature. And they do use a sidebox type smoker--Jeff got it as a birthday gift which allows this new foray into smoking. Thing is, neither are cooks, so though they can follow instructions to a 'T', they don't have any intuitive knowledge to help work out problems. And I wasn't there the whole way to understand where they might have gone wrong. I only thought that the result, however good, somehow fell short and wondered if I really understood what the desired result SHOULD be. Wish I could ask them more questions and give them advice without insulting them.

[Jenise]

Jenise, as someone else told you the type of smoker one uses is crucial. It is crucial in several ways. one and perhaps most important is that with most cookers one needs to babysit the thing in order to insure a steady heat. Another is that ones needs moisture, which can be somewhat negated by placing some liquid in the cooking chamber (such as in the offset smoker). Also as someone said you need the whole brisket, point and flat, unseparated, cooked fat side down. One can take whatever fat that one trims off and place it on the flat to allow more moisture in that section. and I would do the cook at 275 degrees (steady) until the temperature (internal) reaches at least 170- 180 degrees. Here is a link to a bbq forum (ok it is the Kamado forum) but it has info and pictures, just scroll down the page. http://www.kamado.com/discus/messages/1/30013.html

Fat side down? I'd think it should be up, to baste. No?

Fat side down? I'd think it should be up, to baste. No?

I would also think that Jenise but the Kamado experts pretty much all say down. I will also send you a video on brisket, if only I can find it. it's really good.

Jenise, here is the picture(s) I promised, but I said it was in video, and it is not. But there is a great description on how to do a brisket. I was also incorrect about temperature, instead of the 275 I said, I would back that off to 240-250 degrees. even then it is going to take several hours. I hope this helps your friends to produce better brisket.

http://dizzypigbbq.com/recipesBrisket.html

Let me start off by saying I have never done a brisket, but I do smoke other cuts, like ribs and butt, often.

I use a BGE and I run it at 225. You can run it lower, but that is what works for me. Not unusual for competitors to run it below 200. It is important to assess the temperature at the right place in the smoker. There is a built in thermometer in the BGE and I never use it because it gives the dome temp, not the temp at the level of grate. I use a temp probe next to the meat to ensure control of temp at the cooking surface. I also use a computer controller to turn a fan on and off, directly linked to the probe, to control the temp within a degree of 225 so that I don't have temp spikes.

During cooking, I also have a probe in the meat and can track its progress. As is true in all the low and slow cooking, the temp in the meat increases rapidly into the 140s and then starts to slow down. You may hit 140 in the first hour or two of a 16 hour smoke. The temp plateau is caused by the endothermic reactions of converting parts of the meat, especially the connective tissue, to the moist rich flavor we associate with slow cooked meat. The longer you can maintain the plateau, the more moist and tender the meat becomes. Obviously, this is counterintuitive if you are used to cooking your steak rare to keep it moist and tender, but this is a different cooking method and cut of meat.

Again, I have not done brisket, but 164 seems too low to me. I don't think you have made it all the way through the plateau, which I normally take to 180, and therefore have not completed the conversion of the connective tissue.

G

Let me start off by saying I have never done a brisket, but I do smoke other cuts, like ribs and butt, often.

I use a BGE and I run it at 225. You can run it lower, but that is what works for me. Not unusual for competitors to run it below 200. It is important to assess the temperature at the right place in the smoker. There is a built in thermometer in the BGE and I never use it because it gives the dome temp, not the temp at the level of grate. I use a temp probe next to the meat to ensure control of temp at the cooking surface. I also use a computer controller to turn a fan on and off, directly linked to the probe, to control the temp within a degree of 225 so that I don't have temp spikes.

During cooking, I also have a probe in the meat and can track its progress. As is true in all the low and slow cooking, the temp in the meat increases rapidly into the 140s and then starts to slow down. You may hit 140 in the first hour or two of a 16 hour smoke. The temp plateau is caused by the endothermic reactions of converting parts of the meat, especially the connective tissue, to the moist rich flavor we associate with slow cooked meat. The longer you can maintain the plateau, the more moist and tender the meat becomes. Obviously, this is counterintuitive if you are used to cooking your steak rare to keep it moist and tender, but this is a different cooking method and cut of meat.

Again, I have not done brisket, but 164 seems too low to me. I don't think you have made it all the way through the plateau, which I normally take to 180, and therefore have not completed the conversion of the connective tissue.

G

Greg, you have done a much better explanation than I have. I agree that the meat has to reach a temperature where the collagen melts away. Collagen is of course the connective tissue that hold lean meat together. The brisket flat is almost all lean and that is why it is best cooked with the point intact. However, I would point out that since brisket is meant to be sliced, it is not cooked quite to the degree that a pork shoulder (aka boston butt) is cooked. I like the shoulder cooked to 195-200 internal and that might be too much to slice. The plateau you speak of can sometimes be confusing to new smoker aficionados, but it is real and one has to resist the temptation of removing it too soon. I think earlier I said some things to Jenise that were not quite correct, and those things tell me I need to check my facts before putting them to print. IC you use a BGE (which size?) and I use a #7 Kamado. I would sometime like to try the two side by side and see how that would come out.

Let me start off by saying I have never done a brisket, but I do smoke other cuts, like ribs and butt, often.

I use a BGE and I run it at 225. You can run it lower, but that is what works for me. Not unusual for competitors to run it below 200. It is important to assess the temperature at the right place in the smoker. There is a built in thermometer in the BGE and I never use it because it gives the dome temp, not the temp at the level of grate. I use a temp probe next to the meat to ensure control of temp at the cooking surface. I also use a computer controller to turn a fan on and off, directly linked to the probe, to control the temp within a degree of 225 so that I don't have temp spikes.

During cooking, I also have a probe in the meat and can track its progress. As is true in all the low and slow cooking, the temp in the meat increases rapidly into the 140s and then starts to slow down. You may hit 140 in the first hour or two of a 16 hour smoke. The temp plateau is caused by the endothermic reactions of converting parts of the meat, especially the connective tissue, to the moist rich flavor we associate with slow cooked meat. The longer you can maintain the plateau, the more moist and tender the meat becomes. Obviously, this is counterintuitive if you are used to cooking your steak rare to keep it moist and tender, but this is a different cooking method and cut of meat.

Again, I have not done brisket, but 164 seems too low to me. I don't think you have made it all the way through the plateau, which I normally take to 180, and therefore have not completed the conversion of the connective tissue.

G

Greg, you have done a much better explanation than I have. I agree that the meat has to reach a temperature where the collagen melts away. Collagen is of course the connective tissue that hold lean meat together. The brisket flat is almost all lean and that is why it is best cooked with the point intact. However, I would point out that since brisket is meant to be sliced, it is not cooked quite to the degree that a pork shoulder (aka boston butt) is cooked. I like the shoulder cooked to 195-200 internal and that might be too much to slice. The plateau you speak of can sometimes be confusing to new smoker aficionados, but it is real and one has to resist the temptation of removing it too soon. I think earlier I said some things to Jenise that were not quite correct, and those things tell me I need to check my facts before putting them to print. IC you use a BGE (which size?) and I use a #7 Kamado. I would sometime like to try the two side by side and see how that would come out.

Bob,

I have the large BGE which has an 18 inch grill surface. I can fit three racks of ribs on this cooking surface without using a rib rack.

I am feeling a smoking coming on. I think I will fire it up tomorrow. I really like smoked brisket, so I am going to have to give it a try sometime, but probably ribs tomorrow (family favorite).


G

The link below is a nice discussion of brisket and how to prepare it. If I can find the packer cut, I will try the recipe this weekend and let you know. I have used the Texas Crutch for other cuts, and it does work well in my hands.
http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/texas_brisket.html

G

I tend to think that if you do not have the proper set up, you should not be smoking brisket. Buy it mail order and gently reheat wrapped in foil in a low temp oven.

I think one can do a serviceable job, even in a Weber kettle, by carefully monitoring the temperature. While it won't be Texas 'cue, it will produce a flavorful, moist and tender product.
But temps are definitely key, and it's a huge chore to try and regulate them for the long period of time necessary. That's why whenever my family asks me to make it, I pretend as if I don't hear them.

Please allow the Texan to chime in. John, I'm with you in that a Weber can do a serviceable job. I have a Weber kettle grill and have done many, many briskets on it. I shoot for a cooking temp of 200 throughout and go for 10 hours, maybe more if it looks like it needs more. I find that too far below 200 (like 160, sorry Bernard) just takes too dang long and doesn't really yield a good crust. Maybe I have just gotten used to using my Weber, because many folks say what Bernard said above.

Now, my Dad has one of those drum smokers and the briskets I have made on it really do rock. But until I can really settle down in a permanent place of residence I am not going to lug one of those things around. Side by side, though, most folks haven't been able to tell the difference between a brisket done on my Dad's smoker and my Weber. So in that sense, yes, a Weber can produce "Texas 'cue".

rwj

Bob,
I have the large BGE which has an 18 inch grill surface. I can fit three racks of ribs on this cooking surface without using a rib rack.

I am feeling a smoking coming on. I think I will fire it up tomorrow. I really like smoked brisket, so I am going to have to give it a try sometime, but probably ribs tomorrow (family favorite).


G

Greg, let me tell you about my latest experience with ribs on my Kamado. I had two slabs of baby backs and decided to experiment So after rubbing them with a southwest style rub, I let them soak up the rub for a couple house and when I was ready to put them on to cook, I rolled one slab fairly tightly, meat side out. I used a bamboo skewer to hold the rolled ribs and put both slabs on to kook at the same time.(the rolled slab I stood on edge where I could easily get to it to baste with sauce. Cooking at 230-250 degrees for 5 hours then for the last hour I basted them with Chef Carey's bbq sauce. Both were equally good, equally falling off the bone tender. My point of rolling one is to see if I could (if needed) increase the number of slabs I could cook at one time. My Kamado #7 cooking grid is 22.5 inches so I can put 5-6 slabs on and by rolling them I could get 10 slabs on.

[Jenise]

Fat side down? I'd think it should be up, to baste. No?

I would also think that Jenise but the Kamado experts pretty much all say down. I will also send you a video on brisket, if only I can find it. it's really good.

Must be something about the Kamado then that argues for the reverse, because conventionally speaking fat-down makes NO sense except to flare up the fire, which typically you don't want. I can't imagine non-Kamado users doing likewise.

Fat side down? I'd think it should be up, to baste. No?

I would also think that Jenise but the Kamado experts pretty much all say down. I will also send you a video on brisket, if only I can find it. it's really good.

Must be something about the Kamado then that argues for the reverse, because conventionally speaking fat-down makes NO sense except to flare up the fire, which typically you don't want. I can't imagine non-Kamado users doing likewise.

Jenise,

From what I gather about fat side down is that if the fat is up, the fat dripping down the meat actually interferes with getting a good crust on the meat, which is crucial in good Que. Many argue that fat dripping down the meat does nothing for the juiceness and only impedes the creation of a good crust. Also, I know when I do a shoulder or something of that nature on my Kamado, I always do it over indirect heat...over a drip pan and a heat deflector, so there are no flare-ups.

Bobh - I just finished rolling six racks of ribs today for tomorrow's BBQ block party I am giving...they all fit no problem on Henry...have two shoulders on there now for overnight kooking , so excited!

Since we seem to have drifted off into ribs - a couple of comments.

First, a credential.

I have judged dozens of barbecue contests - mostly pork. I've judged whole hog, shoulder and ribs.
I've eaten hundreds of entries in some of the largest barbecue contests in the country - most notably the Memphis in May World Championship Barbecue Contest. (They do have poultry and beef categories, too. But the heavy hitters go for pork and the $26,000.00 Grand Prize.)

My barbecue sauce and rub are both amalgams of what I gleaned in those years of judging. Folks have taken my recipes and won contests with them.

Just a couple of tips:

A good average temperature is 250 degrees. You'll get a great product this way in about 4- 4 1/2 hours and you won't have to futz with the cooker very much. As you already know I prefer the horizontal cooker.

I always use bulk charcoal. Even here in Oregon I'm able to buy Tennessee charcoal. It burns a little hotter than the byproduct (of making bulk charcoal) briquettes so watch your temperature.

I prefer a rib rack to rolling. Again,not much futzing involved. I usually use oak, although I'm not at all averse to fruitwoods.

Do pull the membrane off the back. It's perfectly edible but the rub flavor will get to the actual meat on the back.

One last thing - among the dozens of judges I've known and literally hundreds of teams, I never heard a single one of them call what they did "Que."