Local Breads

What do you think of the book, Local Breads by Daniel Leader? It's about recipes from European artisan bakers.

[Jenise]

I've not seen it, Larry. Are you looking to buy a bread book?

I haven't seen it yet either, Larry, but Kim O'Donnel did a piece on it (November 6) in the Washington Post that was interesting. She actually used one of the recipes and the methods to make a baguette that she was finally pleased with.

The article can be read here.

If you can't access it, let me know and I can forward it to you.

I've not seen it, Larry. Are you looking to buy a bread book?

Actually, I'm planning to buy two different ones. I borrowed the Local Breads from the library and I think it looks good. It's sort of a variant on Clayton's Breads of France but on a much wider scale. I was just curious what other people thought of it.

[David M. Bueker]

I've not seen it, Larry. Are you looking to buy a bread book?

Actually, I'm planning to buy two different ones. I borrowed the Local Breads from the library and I think it looks good. It's sort of a variant on Clayton's Breads of France but on a much wider scale. I was just curious what other people thought of it.

I have not yet seen it, but I loved his first book (Bread Alone), so I will likely buy it.

Larry, have you put your technique for making sourdough bread on FLDG? I'm just starting to make it, using the starter from Linda Wilbourne, and would like to compare your technique with hers.

Thanks, Bob

I am thinking about Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads, his latest book--he has a recipe for "spent" grain bread that is right up my alley--moist, chewy, whole-grainy...

B

Larry, have you put your technique for making sourdough bread on FLDG? I'm just starting to make it, using the starter from Linda Wilbourne, and would like to compare your technique with hers.

Thanks, Bob

I don't think I've posted anything about making sourdough bread (what variety are you interested in?), but I know I've posted my sourdough waffle recipe, which is really good.

Is the Wilbourne starter a San Francisco type?

I am thinking about Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads, his latest book--he has a recipe for "spent" grain bread that is right up my alley--moist, chewy, whole-grainy...

B

Interesting. I guess there really is lot to the old adage that beer is liquid bread.

Yes, she sells a San Francisco starter, although she is located in Texas, I believe.

She sells a number of interesting items helpful in making sourdough bread; I bought just the starter yeast, a new oven thermometer and a measuring cup. A couple of the other items look interesting.

So far, I've made two batches, after getting a very good stash, both with good results -- not yet San Francisco quality, but as good as the stuff at the Market Basket.

Also, I made a very good pizza dough from the stash, and also some excellent sourdough pancakes. It's very helpful to have a batch of live yeast in the house and at the ready anytime.

Frankly, I don't have enough experience to answer your question about varieties -- I suppose there are many different types, though.

Her website is located here.

Here's an outline of the technique she teaches in her online manual, which I put together from her comprehensive text, just so I could get the steps into my mind. It assumes you have already got a good stash working, and that you'll do everything by hand -- I don't have a mixer.

Sour Dough Bread - draft.

1 ½ pound loaf or three or four mini loaves.

Technique

1. 12 hours before making bread, take half a cup of starter from your stash, stir a cup [half a cup?] of water and flour into your stash to replace the starter, mix well, leave at room temperature for an hour and return to refrigerator.

2. Place the half cup of starter in a mixing bowl with 2 ½ cups flour and 2 ½ cups water, mix well, cover and leave at room temperature between 65 and 85 F for 12 hours. ("Sponge")

3. Mix well the sponge, 1 ½ cup flour and ½ tsp [ascorbic acid, was her suggestion; David and Larry both reject lemon juice which used instead -- too lazy to go upstairs and get a Vitamin C tablet!]l, and let rest for half an hour or more to allow flour to absorb water.

4. Add salt and mix well.

5. Add flour and mix and continue to add flour and mix until you have a fairly stiff dough, moist but not sticky.

6. Knead on a well floured surface for ten to fifteen minutes, adding flour as necessary.

7. Oil dough rising bucket, place dough in rising bucket, and oil top of dough. Cover and let rise until the dough doubles in size. [Check with finger test - if the dough springs back, the first rise is not yet complete.]

8. Punch down the dough, slide it out of the rising bucket, and divide into final size.

9. Round each piece of dough, and rest the dough for 15 minutes.

10. Oil the baking pans, shape the dough into final form, and place in baking pans.

11. Let the dough rise for 1 ½ to 3 hours; use the finger indentation test.

12. An hour before baking, place stone and cup of water in oven, and preheat oven to 400F.

13. Beat an egg with a TBS of water. Cut pattern into top of each loaf. Brush each loaf with the egg mixture. Spray the loaves with a fine mist of water.

14. Put loaves in oven and spray the sides of the oven with water. Repeat the water spray every one or two minutes for the first ten minutes.

15. After ten minutes of baking at 400F, reduce oven heat to 375F.

16. Bake 30 to 60 minutes until the bread is heated to 200 to 210 F.

17. Rest the bread on a rack for 30 minutes, and cut with a sharp knife.

Any comments?

Thanks, Bob

Let me study your directions at my leisure and I'll get back to you probably tomorrow. My brain's a little slow today (not enough sleep and too much cab sav last night), but at least my body now has a surfeit of antioxidants.

You didn't have to buy starter. I have several types and I would have been happy to send you some.

I'm back.

Your recipe seems pretty standard, but I'm mystified by the addition of lemon juice. It would seem to me that lemon juice would weaken gluten strands. I'd be prone to try it without the juice.

There are other variations you can play with, such as the addition of a tablespoon of sugar or honey (honey is hygroscopic and keeps bread moist longer) or a tablespoon or two of oil or melted butter (if you want the bread to last longer without going stale).

If you quoted step #1 accurately, "take half a cup of starter from your stash, stir a cup of water and flour into your stash to replace the starter...," that's definitely incorrect. The replacement is always the same size; otherwise your stash would grow larger each time you used it. It should be 1/2 c water and 1/2 c flour.

You can also cheat a bit and shorten the rise time if you use both your starter and some commercial yeast. Certainly optional, but even European sourdough bread bakers use that technique.

The variations are myriad. Have fun.

Thanks Larry. I did quote the one cup replacement business in step 1 -- she must have a typo there.

Here's what she writes about the lemon juice:

½ teaspoon Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C pills crushed fine or Fruit Fresh) optional, added to the dough with the first flour—enhances the rise


My finished bread is a little heavy, with many, many small gas holes -- I'd like to get them bigger and the bread itself lighter.

It's great fun -- I especially like the 15 minutes of kneading.

Thanks, Bob

[David M. Bueker]

Bob,

I would never, ever use lemon juice. It does weaken the gluten which will prevent you from getting those bigger holes and lighter bread. (Actually dicussed this at a seminar on bread once when a perosn asked Joe Ortiz about using fresh fruit in bread).

Fruit Fresh is a mostly ascorbic acid powder that would work in place of crushed vitamin C pills. Lemon juice won't do the trick properly.

Thanks, David. What does the ascorbic acid do?

[David M. Bueker]

Thanks, David. What does the ascorbic acid do?

Yeast food.

Bob,

I would never, ever use lemon juice. It does weaken the gluten which will prevent you from getting those bigger holes and lighter bread. (Actually dicussed this at a seminar on bread once when a perosn asked Joe Ortiz about using fresh fruit in bread).

Fruit Fresh is a mostly ascorbic acid powder that would work in place of crushed vitamin C pills. Lemon juice won't do the trick properly.

Thanks for answering Bob's question. My message to the same effect has seemed to have mysteriously vanished into email etherdom and didn't get posted. There are several substances and spices that enhance rising that I will look up when I get home.

Thanks Larry -- anything I can do to lighten the bread would be great.

This version is actually superb for panini when cut very thin -- great taste and the flavors seem to meld better than in the fluffier type I buy at Market Basket.

But big holes are what I remember from San Francisco, and it would be great if I could duplicate those great slabs smeared with butter or dipped in olive oil.

Absolutely try w/o the lemon juice.

Don't be violent when punching down. Just deflate it and handle your dough gently.

And make sure your bread is proofed enough without being overproofed (which also causes dense bread).

Larry, I'm confused by the word "proofing"; it seems to have two meanings:

1) A sourdough or sponge starter is "proofed" to determine whether it's still active by feeding it more flour and water and letting it ferment and bubble.

2) The final (or second) rise is known as "proofing".

Do I have that right?

If so, are suggesting that I don't let the second rise go on too long?

Regards, Bob

"Proofing" is used for both.

Picture going up a mountain. You want the bread to rise until shortly before you reach the top. The oven heat will then complete the proofing; it's called "ovenspring."

If you cross over the top and start coming down, the bread is starting to deflate. Ergo, smaller bubbles, denser bread.

Once you do a number, you'll have a feel for the right amount of rise. I'll admit I get bent out of shape if I get preoccupied and my bread overproofs. So keep an eye on it.

I wonder if I could proof in the microwave set on the lowest setting -- advantages -- certain temp, set time, heat the entire dough ball at the same time.

Unless the oven would make the dough too hot.

I'll see what our microwave heat water to at the lowest setting to see if this is feasible.

I assume folks have tried this already, but ....

[David M. Bueker]

I wonder if I could proof in the microwave set on the lowest setting -- advantages -- certain temp, set time, heat the entire dough ball at the same time.

Unless the oven would make the dough too hot.

I'll see what our microwave heat water to at the lowest setting to see if this is feasible.

I assume folks have tried this already, but ....

Don't do it Bob. I use the oven light. Warm but not too warm.

Thanks, David.

I did a little Googling -- it appears that many bread makers do proof in the microwave, using a number of different techniques.

One that appeals a bit: The Bread Baker's Apprentice: Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread, By Peter Reinhart. Reinhart suggests bringing a bowl of water to a boil in the microwave, then proofing the dough in the microwave.

All Food has three suggestions:

* In her book ?Whole Grain Breads,? Beatrice Ojakangas recommends this method: Place the dough in a lightly oiled glass or pottery bowl and cover with a damp towel. Set a microwave safe pie pan in the microwave and place the bowl of dough in the water. Microwave the dough on LOW for 5 minute intervals, feeling it with your fingertips at each interval; the dough should feel ?Just slightly warmer than body temperature.? Ojakangas does not specify how much time the microwave method requires.

* General Electric, maker of microwave ovens, does not have standard guidelines for microwave bread proofing available to consumers, but a company spokesman did tell us about a method the company notes in its own research documents: Microwave 3 cups of water in a 4-cup microwave-safe measuring cup on HIGH for 2 to 3 minutes. Place the dough in a lightly oiled microwave-safe bowl, cover with a damp towel, and set the bowl next to the measuring cup. Microwave on WARM for 20 to 24 minutes; repeat as necessary. The GE spokesman noted that instructions for adjusting microwave settings are contained in its owner?s manual. You will have to check the manual for your particular microwave for instructions on adjusting the temperature.

* We also asked the Consumer Affairs Department at Fleischmann?s Yeast for recommendations. According to a company spokeswoman, the company last experimented with microwave proofing in the 1980?s. At that time, hot spots made the process difficult but not impossible. The company?s web site has only 1 recipe that calls for microwave proofing (an English muffin bread recipe), and the spokeswoman noted that the process is recommended only for that recipe. She noted also that, depending on a microwave?s age and manufacturer, wattage varies, and that can have a significant impact on the power level and time needed to proof bread dough.

http://www.allfood.com/ask_d.cfm?y=0&r=0&aid=62

I'm going to conquer the more traditional methods, but I know the idea is going to fester.