At Stuart's urging

Why do (some) vegetarians want to eat products which resemble dead animal stuff?

Why do (some) vegetarians want to eat products which resemble dead animal stuff?

I have actually pondered this question weak and weary in my study oh so dreary. Methinks there is a class of vegetarians who actually like meat, crave meat, would secretly stash beef jerky and hard cooked eggs under the bed if their vegan spouses wouldn't find out. Yet, out of concerns which do not concern taste and enjoyment, they find it inappropriate to consume the flesh of living beings ... be it for health reasons, be it for other, more ethereal reasons. They are the true altruists and idealists and philosophicalists and masochists ... I suppose. Hence the ersatz-flesh, the soy protein meatloaf in the form of a rabbit, the portobello steaks ... but can they really say, "Gee, this tastes just like chicken?"

An afterthought: We've seen what the vow of celibacy in the priesthood hath wrought. What might be the consequence of zealous vegetarianism?

Because we like the way those products feels and taste. And unlike the "real" thing, no animals are tortured and killed.

My pet peeve is the way the products are named. If you call something "vegetarian chorizo," OK, I have some idea of what the target is, but it also sets an unreasonable expectation. Why not "spicy TVP extruded cylinders"? Hmmmm, maybe I just answered my own question...

But really, many vegetarians have chosen that path not because they think that meat tastes horrible or that they don't want chewy protein'n'fat goodness, but because they don't want that at the expense of a dead pig. It would be interesting to have a vegetarian analog of "long pork."

In the case of the dish that prompted Thomas, I used a product called "Caviart," which provides the color of salmon roe, a nice, fishy sort of saltiness, and an interesting texture which I'm told is a pretty good approximation of salmon roe. But no salmon with slit-open bellies. And the Caviart made it into a better dish.

FWIW, The Other Stupid, who is very much NOT a vegetarian, quite enjoys some of the analog products, but with the proviso that we don't refer to it as "vegetarian chicken." It's just different and a yummy product on its own, as long as one is using flavor and texture as the yardstick rather than whether it resembles chunks of bird corpse.

Tofurky is an abomination.

FWIW, The Other Stupid, who is very much NOT a vegetarian, quite enjoys some of the analog products, but with the proviso that we don't refer to it as "vegetarian chicken." It's just different and a yummy product on its own, as long as one is using flavor and texture as the yardstick

I quite agree. There are a couple of the veggie "burger" patties that I think are really good; I like the taste and texture, but don't need to view them as a replacement for a hamburger, they're just another answer to the question, "what's for dinner?"

I did not expect such a cogent response, Stuart, and so I am dumb-founded--not.

Seriously, I am low on red meat consumption but high on whatever the sea or lake has to offer, and I haven't found what use a chicken has other than to lay eggs and make a fine breast cutlet with sage infused breading.

I eat a lot of strictly vegetable dishes too, because I like them, not because of any political feeling or sense of cruelty to animals. (Imagine if our pre-historic ancestors were politically averse to eating meat--we'd all be, well, we wouldn't all be at all).

True, the way we do it these days makes animal slaughtering a sickening sight, but that, to me, is a reflection of over-population, industrialization, and the demise of rural living more than it is of cruelty. Some cultures ritualized the slaughter making it a religious practice to express the meat as a gift, which it used to be--it was hard to catch and corral those mammoth!

But, I am glad to hear that those faux meat references turn you off. It gives vegetarianism a bad name.

Tonight I am going to fix me a large pork roast and make it look like an eggplant--I do that whenever I burn the roast.

Thing that gives vegetarianism a bad name is vegetarians. Most of them are Puritans at heart and either don't like food or don't want to like food. Vegans are the worst that way.

When I'm traveling and someone offers to take me to a "vegetarian restaurant," I smile politely and try to figure out how to worm my way out of it. The NYT article this week was somewhat amusing- by far, the best vegetarian food found in San Francisco is at "normal" restaurants, not those pricey, pretentious Earthmuffin places that the Times reviewed.

Thing that gives vegetarianism a bad name is vegetarians. Most of them are Puritans at heart and either don't like food or don't want to like food. Vegans are the worst that way.

When I'm traveling and someone offers to take me to a "vegetarian restaurant," I smile politely and try to figure out how to worm my way out of it. The NYT article this week was somewhat amusing- by far, the best vegetarian food found in San Francisco is at "normal" restaurants, not those pricey, pretentious Earthmuffin places that the Times reviewed.

Yep, can't get much better at vegetarian than an eggplant parm. at a good Italian restaurant--or mine!

I am glad that you gave me the idea for those BS latke. My wife thanks you, too. My only problem was figuring out exactly when the insides were properly cooked, but I got it on the second go round.

I like to chide vegans by saying that each and every day just by using a keyboard they kill hundreds of their own skin cells...

But really, many vegetarians have chosen that path not because they think that meat tastes horrible or that they don't want chewy protein'n'fat goodness, but because they don't want that at the expense of a dead pig. It would be interesting to have a vegetarian analog of "long pork."

Now that would be a marketing campaign to behold!!!

Yes, I think that type of response is most common among Vegetarian Converts who remember previous days.

Us lifers on the other hand don't know what it's all about.

Which response do you mean, Rahsaan?

(fwiw, I'm pretty much a lifer- haven't eaten meat since I was a small kid)

[Jenise]

I've always presumed those products were aimed at recent converts or those who were forced to give up meat. I can't quite imagine being a lifer like Rahsaan or Stuart and thinking "hmmm...how about tofu hot dogs tonight?" The concept 'hot dog' would have no meaning to me, and to the extent I understood it by description I would do everything to avoid it.

By the same token I was completely disgusted when last Sunday morning when at our out of town hotel I ordered a breakfast of scrambled tofu with onions, bell peppers and mushrooms. Sounded absolutely delicious to me, and I pictured kind of an Americanized version of ma po tofu. But no, this wasn't the tofu I love, cut from a fresh block and gently folded into sauteed vegetables, it was grainy and had been dyed yellow to look like scrambled eggs, which defeated everything about it someone repulsed by eggs like myself was trying to avoid.

This wasn't tofu, it was fake eggs. Yuck.

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?" - Steven Wright (I think).

rwj

In the case of the dish that prompted Thomas, I used a product called "Caviart," which provides the color of salmon roe, a nice, fishy sort of saltiness, and an interesting texture which I'm told is a pretty good approximation of salmon roe. But no salmon with slit-open bellies. And the Caviart made it into a better dish.

Stu, in no way passing any comment on your choices, I did however see a food program recently on salmon roe coming out of Tasmania. The salmon aren't actually killed for their roe - quite the opposite in fact - the fish are sedated first, then "milked" for their roe, and then returned to the fish farm. The milking process is fascinating, they basically squeeze the salmon bellies and all the roe comes squirting out. The fish is unharmed by the process, and in fact if they aren't "milked", they can die because they're in an enclosed environment and are unable to spawn.

Here's the link...salmon roe

Ok, the fish does eventually get eaten though... :)

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?" - Steven Wright (I think).

rwj

Really ? I thought it was Doug Surplus... :)

Stu, in no way passing any comment on your choices, I did however see a food program recently on salmon roe coming out of Tasmania. The salmon aren't actually killed for their roe - quite the opposite in fact - the fish are sedated first, then "milked" for their roe, and then returned to the fish farm. The milking process is fascinating, they basically squeeze the salmon bellies and all the roe comes squirting out. The fish is unharmed by the process, and in fact if they aren't "milked", they can die because they're in an enclosed environment and are unable to spawn.

Here's the link...salmon roe

Ok, the fish does eventually get eaten though...

Sedated and then "milked"? Sounds like a pretty good Saturday night to me....

Behave yourself, Mike.

Celia: That's very interesting, I didn't know that- I had assumed that it was a process like caviar extraction.

I can't quite imagine being a lifer like Rahsaan or Stuart and thinking "hmmm...how about tofu hot dogs tonight?"

I can't imagine thinking, hmmm, how about tofu hot dogs tonight? But Caviart appeals. So does Veat and various Chinese products. And I must admit a liking for Morningstar Farms' burgers and TVP ground meat analog- it does very nicely in vegetarian chili and to replace pork in classic mapo tofu.

the fish are sedated first, then "milked"

Red rocket, red rocket!!!

Morningstar Farms' burgers and TVP ground meat analog ...

I get the gamut of Morningstar falsies at TJ's and enjoy them ... more or less. Basically, I microwave them until they are so hard and charred that it seems like I'm eating tough meat. Hey, tastes vary.

As to TVP, I was involved in developing the packaging for ADM when it first came out with the Green Giant bulk TVP product. We had tons of the stuff which came in frozen. You really need to see about 100 lbs. defrosted and left out on a shop floor overnight. It'd make a carnivore out of you quickly.

"If God didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?" - Steven Wright (I think).

rwj

Really ? I thought it was Doug Surplus...

Nah, I just stole it. I saw it somewhere else, without attribution.

Which response do you mean, Rahsaan?

What everyone else has said. The nostalgia for non-meat meat products. Seems to me like something for people who remember hamburgers or hot dogs from their youth but for whatever reason no longer eat the meat versions.

Vegetables are people, too!

Don't know if you ever ate at Green's,but I think you would enjoy it. No emphasis on "vegetarianism." It just *is.* I liked it a lot.

Yes, I have. it's OK, but never thrilled me, especially at the not-inconsiderable price. Millennium, same thing- very good, not superb, but expensive.

Which response do you mean, Rahsaan?

(fwiw, I'm pretty much a lifer- haven't eaten meat since I was a small kid)

Stuart, my Mom was like that - didn't eat meat from about 6 years old or so. OTOH, she would cook meat for my Dad and us kids, and even worked in a butcher department of a grocery for several years. I will sometimes eat a meatless meal, but only because I want a change of pace. I am a confirmed omnivore, and can get downright joyous over a particularly well-prepared piece of meat, especially if it is the tenderloin of a yearling deer that I brought to bag.

My only real problem with vegans and run-of-the-mill vegetarians is if they start to interfere with my own freedom to eat meat or not, as I see fit.

And FWIW, I have tried to like tofu, but without much success, especially if it is made to look like meat of some sort! Tofurkey is indeed an abomination!