Wild Oats sale to Whole Foods goes through

[Robin Garr]

In spite of all the shenanigans, bad publicity and an unusual level of federal scrutiny, Whole Foods closed the deal to buy Wild Oats:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070828/bs_ ... foods_dc_1

Hooray.

The paper today says that WalMart is looking to acquire businesses, which means Whole Foods will have to look over its shoulders. Someday we'll all grocery shop at WalMart. We won't have any other choice.

[Robin Garr]

Someday we'll all grocery shop at WalMart. We won't have any other choice.

I'll grow my own damn food before I'll darken the doors of a Walmart or Sam's Club ...

I'll grow my own damn food before I'll darken the doors of a Walmart or Sam's Club ...

I'm with you Robin, or make friends with the nearest farmer who growns produce and meat. I'd even volunteer to do farm work for him just to get a nice box every week. Hmmmm.......let's see, there are about 50 working farms within an hour of me, I'd better start soon.
I go to Walmart for birdseed and that is where it ends!

I'm going to stir this pot a little; what is everyone's disdain with Wal-Mart? I'm not particularly fond, myself, but I'm curious why people prefer not to shop there.

[James Roscoe]

I'm going to stir this pot a little; what is everyone's disdain with Wal-Mart? I'm not particularly fond, myself, but I'm curious why people prefer not to shop there.

Noooooo!

I'm going to stir this pot a little; what is everyone's disdain with Wal-Mart? I'm not particularly fond, myself, but I'm curious why people prefer not to shop there.

It's a class issue, at the root of things, and a general dislike of successful and powerful capitalist enterprises. And that's OK, people should be free to choose not to shop somewhere and to urge others not to for whatever reason. And double OK, because it's a place that is somewhat seedy, but has many of the things I want at lower prices than I can get elsewhere. So their loss is my gain.

I'm going to stir this pot a little; what is everyone's disdain with Wal-Mart? I'm not particularly fond, myself, but I'm curious why people prefer not to shop there.

I'm with you, A.B. I don't get it. Okay, so the small guy can't compete. The small guy just needs to figure out how to specialize. Then the small guy becomes the big guy -- like Whole Foods. Go Figure!

I'm going to stir this pot a little; what is everyone's disdain with Wal-Mart? I'm not particularly fond, myself, but I'm curious why people prefer not to shop there.

It's a class issue, at the root of things, and a general dislike of successful and powerful capitalist enterprises.

Oh, puhleeze. A class issue. I'm a capitalist, too.

Other than squeezing the little guys, metastisizing to every corner and screwing up traffic flow in residential neighborhoods, screwing their employees on time and benefits, selling the labors of sweat shops, and parking nightmares, there's nothing wrong with Wal-Mart.

Just a few weeks ago, Wal-Mart was trying to place a superstore in Albuquerque's main landing field for our balloon fiesta--the largest in the world. Luckily, they lost. No one in Albuquerque is more than a few minutes from a Wal-Mart. How many do they need?

It's not how many "they need," it's how many consumers want. No-one shops there at the point of a gun.

Oh, puhleeze. A class issue. I'm a capitalist, too.

Other than squeezing the little guys, metastisizing to every corner and screwing up traffic flow in residential neighborhoods, screwing their employees on time and benefits, selling the labors of sweat shops, and parking nightmares, there's nothing wrong with Wal-Mart.

Just a few weeks ago, Wal-Mart was trying to place a superstore in Albuquerque's main landing field for our balloon fiesta--the largest in the world. Luckily, they lost. No one in Albuquerque is more than a few minutes from a Wal-Mart. How many do they need?

The little guy needs to find a niche market and stick to it, then they won't be in a position to be squeezed by Wal-Mart, who specializes in nothing but volume (thereby lower prices). Success breeds success = metestisizing. The reason the traffic flow is screwed up is because 80% of the population is trying to get into the parking lot. Wal-Mart is not doing it by themselves! Consumers are as much the culprit!

Contrary to popular belief, except for minimum wage, a company is not obliged to pay you a penny more. In addition, benefits are not (including sick leave and vacations) an entitlement. They were an incentive designed by large companies to compete with Unions in order to attract the best talent. There is no mandate (federal or otherwise) for companies to provide either. The fact that they do simply means that they cannot discriminate -- if they offer it to one, they must offer it to all (albeit not in the same amount nor in the same combinations or proportions). (I was a Personnel manager in my former professional life, and compensation was my forte!)

I've often seen this sweat shop/Wal-Mart combination. Is there a Wal-Mart label? Unless they are a manufacturer, where does the sweat shop come in? I don't shop at Wal-Mart; but, I am not above it. I simply want to know why there is such disdain. In short, what has Wal-Mart done to you?

Jo Ann, I think I love you.

All good input. While I'm not naive enough to believe that Wal-Mart has not been involved in shady business practices, I still have no hard information that I could lean on when making my principles against patronizing Wal-Mart.

I think it is very "trendy," for lack of a better word, and "accepted/encouraged" in certain circles to dismiss Wal-Mart. All-in-all, it really doesn't matter what oters think, I'm just curious.

Me? I don't like the crowds; collisions in aisles, questionable people, and the general notion that a lot of people LOVE Wal-Mart and actually make a "deal" out of going there--that perplexes me to no end. . . . Quality of goods is likely sub-par, and noticeable--caution has to be taken when browsing certain products. One-stop shopping for toothpaste, bread, batteries, a magazine, and a package of athletic socks can't get any better/affordable than W-M. The food, for the most part, is as decent as you'll find at any other run-of-the-mill grocery store, AND at better prices. No, it's not "Wild Oats" or "Whole Foods" with health nut-haven and "stick it to te Big Man" mentality, but I'm not working for the little man--I'm working for ME Besides, it seems Whole Foods may be getting a little big for its own good, anyways. What's next?

And, Jo Ann, you asked about Wal-Mart's own brand--they have a store brand called "Great Value," FYI Sometimes it's a good deal, otherwise you're REALLY getting what you pay for!

All good input. While I'm not naive enough to believe that Wal-Mart has not been involved in shady business practices, I still have no hard information that I could lean on when making my principles against patronizing Wal-Mart.

I think it is very "trendy," for lack of a better word, and "accepted/encouraged" in certain circles to dismiss Wal-Mart. All-in-all, it really doesn't matter what oters think, I'm just curious.

Me? I don't like the crowds; collisions in aisles, questionable people, and the general notion that a lot of people LOVE Wal-Mart and actually make a "deal" out of going there--that perplexes me to no end. . . . Quality of goods is likely sub-par, and noticeable--caution has to be taken when browsing certain products. One-stop shopping for toothpaste, bread, batteries, a magazine, and a package of athletic socks can't get any better/affordable than W-M. The food, for the most part, is as decent as you'll find at any other run-of-the-mill grocery store, AND at better prices. No, it's not "Wild Oats" or "Whole Foods" with health nut-haven and "stick it to te Big Man" mentality, but I'm not working for the little man--I'm working for ME Besides, it seems Whole Foods may be getting a little big for its own good, anyways. What's next?

And, Jo Ann, you asked about Wal-Mart's own brand--they have a store brand called "Great Value," FYI Sometimes it's a good deal, otherwise you're REALLY getting what you pay for!

Almost sums up why I don't shop there. I also don't shop at Lowes, Home Decrepit, or just about any other chain like them.

My distaste for these places is neither political nor knee-jerk, as Stuart implies.

In general, I find these large chain stores one more step on the downward ladder of civilization.

I grew up in a major city, if NY is still a major city. I loved shopping where I knew the people, could talk while shopping, could even share something of life with them, could certainly trust their advice as well as their products. When I opened my wine retail shop in Manhattan, small, comfortable, and trustworthy was the modus operandi. I don't get that feeling in large chains. Here''s what I get from them.

I find the general product quality lacking, often not worth the cheaper price. I wonder where they would be without injection molding???

I find the customer service ok--sometimes--but it would be even better if the person taking care of me had more knowledge than I about the product or the process for which the product is used; or at least be able to form a coherent sentence.

I find the size and confusion in such places a waste of my valuable time.

I find that their buying habits geared mainly toward price means that they may not get back in the store the same product that I came to love--if I could ever come to love any of the cheap stuff they usually offer.

I find the general atmosphere of these places dehumanizing, the lighting epilepsy-inducing, and the flooring almost intended to keep me from standing still.

Did I mention that their cheap products prove the old saying, you get what you pay for? I hadn't? Well, I ought to have.

It's not how many "they need," it's how many consumers want. No-one shops there at the point of a gun.

Some consumers, sure, but it's not universal. Haven't you noticed how many proposed Wal-Marts are being fought in the courts? I can name at least three in the Albuquerque area.

I think they do have a "need." Albuquerque is not a huge city and we have multiple Wal-Marts. Are they trying to be like Starbucks? (I don't like Starbucks, either, but it's not some anti-capitalist claptrap; I simply don't like their coffee).

I'm not against capitalism; I'm for it. In my life, I started several businesses, and I did it honestly and didn't screw anyone.

Google "Wal-Mart lawsuits" and spend an afternoon or two reading about their practices. That's why I don't like Wal-Mart no matter how you spin it.

Whenever you read lawyer-driven filings and press releases, you find out that "the other guy" tortures babies, exposes himself to nuns, and eats rats for breakfast. Ho-hum. You should see what my ex-wife's lawyers wrote about me. Well, maybe that wouldn't surprise you... In any case, lawyers invariably go where the money is- do the same Google for ANY big company. They're lawsuit magnets and the ones that won't pay go-away money get the most headlines. Wasn't Whole Paycheck sued for sexual discrimination?

That OT digression notwithstanding, you're (deliberately?) missing the point- "everybody" doesn't have to want a store, just enough people to make it profitable. And a glance at the parking lot of a Walmart (or Starbucks or any other popular chain) will indicate that there's something more than "just enough."

Just remember what Milton Friedman used to say: "The market is smarter than you."

I'm convinced. I now love Wal-Mart.

Personally, I never step foot in the place, and for all the reasons Thomas mentioned.

However, my wife, who is in charge of the grocery and supply budget, goes there about once a month. She figured out that whatever she doesn't spend on the things we need chez Tomasso is money in her pocket to do with as she pleases. So, her W-M list consists of toiletries, paper goods and other disposables, cereal, and cleaning supplies, mostly. These are the items she feels she can save the most money on, without trading down in quality. She doesn't have a problem with the crowds, nor the political implications. She's working for us, and I'm glad of it, as I don't have the time or the patience.

Almost sums up why I don't shop there. I also don't shop at Lowes, Home Decrepit, or just about any other chain like them.

My distaste for these places is neither political nor knee-jerk, as Stuart implies.

In general, I find these large chain stores one more step on the downward ladder of civilization.

I grew up in a major city, if NY is still a major city. I loved shopping where I knew the people, could talk while shopping, could even share something of life with them, could certainly trust their advice as well as their products. When I opened my wine retail shop in Manhattan, small, comfortable, and trustworthy was the modus operandi. I don't get that feeling in large chains. Here''s what I get from them.

I find the general product quality lacking, often not worth the cheaper price. I wonder where they would be without injection molding???

I find the customer service ok--sometimes--but it would be even better if the person taking care of me had more knowledge than I about the product or the process for which the product is used; or at least be able to form a coherent sentence.

I find the size and confusion in such places a waste of my valuable time.

I find that their buying habits geared mainly toward price means that they may not get back in the store the same product that I came to love--if I could ever come to love any of the cheap stuff they usually offer.

I find the general atmosphere of these places dehumanizing, the lighting epilepsy-inducing, and the flooring almost intended to keep me from standing still.

Did I mention that their cheap products prove the old saying, you get what you pay for? I hadn't? Well, I ought to have.

Being from NY, I assume you've shopped at Macy's!

There's an interesting thing here- Thomas complains that the employees are not very competent and Larry complains that they're underpaid and exploited. So we should pay top-dollar and bennies to dummies and incomps? Or just pay more for better people and let the dummies starve?

John, Cindy and I have the same attitude- for stuff like printer paper, trash bags, laundry detergent, and motor oil, I put up with the inconvenience of crowded lots and lean customer service and use the dollars I save to buy nice produce from my local farmers.

Almost sums up why I don't shop there. I also don't shop at Lowes, Home Decrepit, or just about any other chain like them.

My distaste for these places is neither political nor knee-jerk, as Stuart implies.

In general, I find these large chain stores one more step on the downward ladder of civilization.

I grew up in a major city, if NY is still a major city. I loved shopping where I knew the people, could talk while shopping, could even share something of life with them, could certainly trust their advice as well as their products. When I opened my wine retail shop in Manhattan, small, comfortable, and trustworthy was the modus operandi. I don't get that feeling in large chains. Here''s what I get from them.

I find the general product quality lacking, often not worth the cheaper price. I wonder where they would be without injection molding???

I find the customer service ok--sometimes--but it would be even better if the person taking care of me had more knowledge than I about the product or the process for which the product is used; or at least be able to form a coherent sentence.

I find the size and confusion in such places a waste of my valuable time.

I find that their buying habits geared mainly toward price means that they may not get back in the store the same product that I came to love--if I could ever come to love any of the cheap stuff they usually offer.

I find the general atmosphere of these places dehumanizing, the lighting epilepsy-inducing, and the flooring almost intended to keep me from standing still.

Did I mention that their cheap products prove the old saying, you get what you pay for? I hadn't? Well, I ought to have.

Being from NY, I assume you've shopped at Macy's!

What's your point?

I prefer not having to assume what someone else means, but you leave me no choice, so if your point is what I assume it is, I haven't shopped at Macy's in 30 years, and when I did shop there it was infrequently and likely before it became part of Federation. I shopped at Gimbels, too, back then, but only a couple of times.

Having come from Brooklyn, I shopped for clothing and shoes on Fulton Street, in little shops that certainly no longer exist. I got food and hardware in the neighborhood, something else that no longer exists, which is part of what I mean by the ladder downward.

I understand that we may often see the past under rosy hues and gauze, but that does not mean the changes to it have either necessarily or certainly been for the better.

As far as I am concerned, people can shop wherever the hell they like. My aim is to be comfortable in my shoes and in my surroundings as well as with the products I buy. Large chains supply me neither with the comfort nor the product, so why would I bother?

Luckily, where i live now we still have a few local markets, but a Wal Mart fight is right smack in its middle as I post online. The same arguments for and against are ongoing here, and I am of course against, but not for the same arguments.

Life isn't long enough to give it to chains...

There's an interesting thing here- Thomas complains that the employees are not very competent and Larry complains that they're underpaid and exploited. So we should pay top-dollar and bennies to dummies and incomps? Or just pay more for better people and let the dummies starve?

A marvelous set of false choices, Stuart. Plus, my complaint is mine--Larry's is his. We have not collaborated to form a unified set of conflicting complaints.

Back to the choices. Your "pay more for better people and let the dummies starve" chide is strictly political sarcasm and not worthy of me addressing it, as I have not raised a political complaint.

My argument about incompetent employees is strictly about incompetent employees, which seems to be, for whatever reason (pay, benefits, idiot management?) a component in the company's business model--my point is that the business model sucks, at least for this potential customer, obviously not for you. You "put up with" as you say it, I walk away.

I find this thread and the one about Yellow Tail remarkably similar. Both Wal-Mart and Yellow Tail are enormously popular with a segment of society that we all most likely are not a part of. I know I'm not. You can add McDonalds hamburgers, Wonder bread, American Idol, and Velveeta to the list.

They are all enormously successful ventures because they appeal to a lot of people - just not us.

It's not a class thing, it's a quality thing. I'm just glad there are enough of "us" to keep the quality winemakers, grocers and food producers in business.

And those who fight against Wal-Marts in their communities are never the ones who would ever shop there anyway. They are usually rich liberals who think they know what's best for us. And Wal-Mart usually opens just on the other side of the city/county/state limits - costing the original jurisdiction millions in tax revenue. They will get 10 applications for every job and always have a full parking lot. The market decides, just as it should.

[James Roscoe]

Come on Robin! I know you are itching to reply to this thread. Flame on!