Poll: Catsup or Ketchup?

Just curious.

Is this variation regional? Ethnic? Family-dependent?

I write "catsup" just to get a raise of the eyebrow from the reader.

By the way, in general I pronounce it "catch-up" with the location of that first vowel in the back of my throat (like in "aggravate" or "match" not up front (as in "etch").

Duality is a fine thing.

I'm ambicondimental, but voted ketchup because that's the way I lean 62.19% of the time.

Here's a quick summary of the story, in case of interest.

It's not a standardized spelling. (As with many words in many languages -- "recipe" and "receipt" were originally two spellings of the same word, for example. Another example is "Tomata" below.) Here are some data points, from a selection of popular US cookbooks, except for Mrs Beeton, which is British. (From the sources.)

Mary Randolph,* 1824 (edition of 1860): "Catsup"

Eliza Leslie, 1837 (edition 1851): "Catchup" (including "Tomata" Catchup.)
-- A chapter with eight recipes. Three include wine, one beer.

Mrs Beeton (British, edition 1861): "Ketchup"

Fannie Farmer, 1927: "Catsup"

Morrison Wood, 1949: "Catsup"

Joy of Cooking, 1964: "Catsup"

Fannie Farmer, 1965: "Catsup" (five recipes)


I vaguely remember the spelling "ketchup" making inroads in US in the 1960s or 70s, where previously "Catsup" was common on bottles. Maybe it's more phonetic. The Hesses in The Taste of America (1977), who by the way spell it ketchup, note that it was widely homemade, in various flavors, until recent times. They cite OED for the Amoy Chinese word kétsiap, and say the Malay kechap may come from that source. They also mention that one firm developed a bottled ketchup with natural tomato flavor but it didn't sell until the product was "slightly scorched and a metallic component added to give it the taste of 'real' ketchup." (A comment fairly representative of their whole book.)

--
"Mrs. Randolph freely, perhaps extravagantly, used wines and spirits in her cooking." -- Janice Longone, The Wine and Food Library, 1993.

Interesting, Max.

But how do you personally spell it when you use the word?

Interesting, Max.

But how do you personally spell it when you use the word?

No particular way. I've probably used it more in this and the recipe thread here than in the last few years.

Makes me think of Uma Thurman's stupid joke in "Pulp Fiction". Actually, I think I heard that joke when I was about 10.

I used "catsup" in the other thread because that was the thread title. Otherwise, I call it either "ketjap" or "horrible sweet red goop."

I'm in the catsup camp, primarily because I like the sound of the word better.

The OED has an interesting gloss on the entire subject:

Catchup, catsup: A liquor extracted from mushrooms, tomatoes, walnuts, etc., used as a sauce. (Common in N. Amer., but in the U.K. now only KETCHUP.)

This version holds pride of first use according to OED:

1690 B. E. Dict. Cant. Crew, Catchup, a high East-India Sauce.

1730 SWIFT Paneg. on Dean Wks.

1755 IV. I. 142 And, for our home-bred british cheer, Botargo, catsup, and caveer. [I love that "caveer"!]

1751 H. GLASSE Cookery Bk. 309 It will taste like foreign Catchup.

1832 Veg. Subst. Food 333 One..application of mushrooms is..converting them into the sauce called Catsup.

1845 E. ACTON Mod. Cookery v. (1850) 136 (L.) Walnut ca
tsup.

1862 Macm. Mag. Oct. 466 He found in mothery catsup a number of yellowish globular bodies.

Ketchup followed a few years later:

1711 LOCKYER Acc. Trade India 128 Soy comes in Tubbs from Jappan, and the best Ketchup from Tonquin; yet good of both sorts are made and sold very cheap in China.

1748 MRS. HARRISON House-kpr.'s Pocket-bk. i. (ed. 4) 2, I therefore advise you to lay in a Store of Spices,..neither ought you to be without..Kitchup, or Mushroom Juice.

1817 BYRON Beppo viii, Buy in gross..Ketchup, Soy, Chili~vinegar, and Harvey.

1840 DICKENS Barn. Rudge (1849) 91/1 Some lamb chops (breaded, with plenty of ketchup).

1874 COOKE Fungi 89 One important use to which several..fungi can be applied, is the manufacture of ketchup.

OED's etymology note:

[app. ad. Chinese (Amoy dial.) kôechiap or kê-tsiap brine of pickled fish or shell-fish (Douglas Chinese Dict. 46/1, 242/1). Malay k{emac}chap (in Du. spelling ketjap), which has been claimed as the original source (Scott Malayan Wds. in English 64-67), may be from Chinese.

The Japanese kitjap, alleged in some recent dicts., is an impossible form for that language. (? error for Javanese.)]

There are number of books, or extracts of books, dealing with the subject, especially the variations in recipes and in the name itself.

[James Roscoe]

Mr. Heinz says Ketchup. So do I . Is there any better reason to catsup? Does it really matter?

Mr. Heinz says Ketchup. So do I . Is there any better reason to catsup? Does it really matter?

James, a real connoisseur grew up on Pride of the Farm Catsup!! That is reason enough for the dichotomy.

This whole class of sauces comes from a Southeast Asian concoction (can never remember whether it's Malaysian or Indonesian or just what) whose name phonetically transliterates "ketjap".

So I vote for "ketchup" as the proper name for the stuff. That's what we always called it here in New England. The only place you heard "catsup" was on the advertisements on "My Three Sons", which was sponsored by "Hunt's Catsup" (as opposed to Heinz, which produced proper "ketchup" ).

-Paul W. (you can't get theah from heah)

-Paul W. (you can't get theah from heah)

As in "Bert and I went down to the dock..." and "Camden Pierce had had an awful season..."

Catsup is dead. The last major mfr that used (I can't remember if it was Del Monte or Hunt's or someone else) catsup switched a few years ago to ketchup.

And big government killed "catsup", Larry. Here's a very brief history taken in part from Pure Ketchup by Andrew Smith [2001]:

Heinz introduced commercial ketchup in 1875; it became so popular that other manufacturers launched Ketchup, Catsup, Catchup, Katsup, Catsip, Cotsup, Kotchup, Kitsip, Catsoup, Katshoup, Katsock, Cackchop, Cornchop, Cotpock, Kotpock, Kutpuck, Kutchpuck and Cutchpuck. All were tomato based and bottled and heavily advertised.

Eventually three big players remained: Heinz Ketchup, Del Monte Catsup, and Hunts, who could not decide on a spelling and bottled under the names Hunts Catsup (east of the Mississippi), Hunts Ketchup (west of the Mississippi), and Hunts Tomato Cornchops (in Iowa only).

The Feds got into the act when in the 1980's ketchup was declared a vegetable by the government for school lunch menus. Del Monte's Catsup, because of its spelling, was not on the approved list. Shortly afterward Del Monte changed the product's name to Del Monte Ketchup.

Nonetheless, I grew up with Hunts Catsup in Wisconsin, and I still like the word -- reminds me of my Maine Coon cat Fudge who loved to eat everything, but particularly love catsup.

The Feds got into the act when in the 1980's ketchup was declared a vegetable by the government for school lunch menus. Del Monte's Catsup, because of its spelling, was not on the approved list. Shortly afterward Del Monte changed the product's name to Del Monte Ketchup.

Shades of Reagan! I do remember when they were trying to cheap out on school lunches by renaming ketchup a vegetable. If they had their way, mustard would have been steak. I also remember when they were thinking of eliminating student loans a couple of years later. Good planning for the future.

I was a fairly rabid anti-Reaganite in those days, Larry, and the whole ketchup issue got mixed up in politics, and was played very badly by the Administration. The basic idea, though, was sensible, I think.

USDA standards at the time required that a reimbursable lunch consist of five items: meat, milk, bread, and two servings of fruit or vegetables. Many kids refused to eat the veggies -- "plate waste." The idea was that counting ketchup as a vegetable would meet federal standards without having to throw away so many lima beans, saving money while having no impact on the kids, who weren't eating them anyway.

The Dems went ballistic, and a guy named John Block[head] tried to defend the whole thing as a state's right issue. The USDA adopted a more sensible approach called offer vs serve -- the schools had to offer the five groups, but kids could refuse two of the five offerings. (The regs were never actually passed, they were proposed but withdrawn in view of the flap. Nonetheless, "catsup" is no more. )

Clinton's folks played it much smarter when they got salsa added to the list of permitted foods -- no real political fall out.

But, given my politics, if you prefer Democratic politicians staging photo ops about starving kids, go with my blessing.

[James Roscoe]

Mr. Heinz says Ketchup. So do I . Is there any better reason to catsup? Does it really matter?

James, a real connoisseur grew up on Pride of the Farm Catsup!! That is reason enough for the dichotomy.

Jersey boys know nothin'!

[Jenise]

Mrs Beeton (British, edition 1861): "Ketchup"

That's interesting, because I distinctly remember from living in England that there they call it Tomato Sauce. Heinz or Hunts, same bottle, but Tomato Sauce.

The basic idea, though, was sensible, I think.

This is insane. Children do not get to tell adults what is good for them.

If they won't eat it, that's the Way of the World. But it is totally insane to say that ketchup is a vegetable simply because it is something children will eat.

The correct answer to this question is neither "ketchup" nor "catsup." The correct answer is "Heinz ketchup." There is no other, and no discussion is needed.

The correct answer is "Heinz ketchup." There is no other, and no discussion is needed.

Spoken like a true man from Pittsburgh. (And that's the answer in my house too, as you probably guessed, Mike!)

Have you noticed that whatever brand, Heinz included, ketchup is runnier now that it mostly comes in plastic, squeeze bottles. If you don't shake the bottle, you get a lot of liquid. I don't remember that back in the days of glass bottles. Or am I imagining things?

I've thought the same thing, Larry. In the old glass bottle days, I always had to use a knife to get it started, but now I always have to shake the silly bottle to get rid of the separated water first.