How far should a restaurant go?

I have a vision of you as a sideshow chimp.

Same thing happened to me at San Ysidro Ranch. They gave me a jacket that looked (and smelled) like it was made from a horse blanket.

Yep, happened to me once also, looked like an escapee from an institution in my 'borrowed' jacket, so now if going to an unfamiliar upscale resto, always take a jacket just in case.

As I said earlier, it's a regional thing. Boston has a much stricter definition of proper attire than much of the rest of the world.

I suffered thus once at Cafe Budapest in Boston. I showed up without a jacket, and they said, no problem, we can provide one for you. It was blazing red. If I'd had a scarlet 'A' on my head I'd have felt less conspicuous and embarrassed. An excellent meal, in an excellent venue, but partially ruined that night for me by the dress code. I had a great time on a return visit, when I remembered to wear a dinner jacket.

Personally I prefer the Californian attitude. But then, I'm an engineer and wear sandals at work.

-Paul W.

Any eating establishment that even hints at requiring a jacket and tie is one for me to avoid like the plague. I suffered through 9 years of having to dress in the monkey suit at work, and I put on a tie at most twice a year nowadays, and no longer even have a suit that fits. I fail to see the appeal in dressing up to that extent just to dine out.

A sculptor friend and I had just finished work for the day - building one of my restaurants. We were filthy, dressed in jeans and t-shirts.

We were hungry. Trader Vic's (the original) was nearby. We stopped in and were halted at the door and told we must sport ties to be admitted. Fortunately, the head waiter had an ample supply. It was late and there were few people in the joint. I think he was amused by our putting the ties on. He let us in.

LOL it's happened to me 3 or 4 times, maybe more but think I blocked out anything past 4 times!
Good thing there aren't any pix of me in those resto supplied jackets that ranged from badly ill-fitting to totally ridiculous and ties that looked as the Aussies would say, like a technicolor yawn, possible manufacturer, Hieronymus Bosch!
These days, am good for suit & tie maybe once a year.

and no longer even have a suit that fits.

I think this is at the root of why many men dislike "dressing up." A suit that fits properly can be a joy to wear. Since it is an item that few men purchase regularly, the suit is often ill fitting and uncomfortable, and the thought of putting it on inspires dread. It doesn't have to be that way.

My brother, a retired NYC san man, spent many years avoiding weddings because he was always trying to squeeze into a suit ten years out of date. Finally, I dragged him to a store, and had him fitted for a new suit, along with all the goodies - new shirt, belt, shoes, the whole enchilada.
He loved it, and no longer dreads suit wearing occasions.

Everybody's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man!

Any eating establishment that even hints at requiring a jacket and tie is one for me to avoid like the plague. I suffered through 9 years of having to dress in the monkey suit at work, and I put on a tie at most twice a year nowadays, and no longer even have a suit that fits. I fail to see the appeal in dressing up to that extent just to dine out.

and no longer even have a suit that fits.

Me, too. I had two jobs where I had to wear a tie. By the end of the day, I'd be in pain from wearing the damn thing. I can handle an MRI better than wearing a neck choker. And I have instructions that when I'm laid out in a coffin, there better be no damn tie--the invention of Satan.


I think this is at the root of why many men dislike "dressing up." A suit that fits properly can be a joy to wear. Since it is an item that few men purchase regularly, the suit is often ill fitting and uncomfortable, and the thought of putting it on inspires dread. It doesn't have to be that way.

My brother, a retired NYC san man, spent many years avoiding weddings because he was always trying to squeeze into a suit ten years out of date. Finally, I dragged him to a store, and had him fitted for a new suit, along with all the goodies - new shirt, belt, shoes, the whole enchilada.
He loved it, and no longer dreads suit wearing occasions.

Everybody's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man!

As far as I'm concerned, suits suck and ties suck. Since my neck size is two sizes larger than standard proportioned shirts, I have to buy custom-made shirts (pricey, with a minimum of four per order) in order to wear a tie. If I get a shirt that fits my neck, the shoulders are down near my elbows. Luckily, my latest and last incarnation is as a writer, and I don't have to wear a monkey suit. Another reason to appreciate the casualness of New Mexico (but don't move here, try Arizona; we're getting too many people here).

Stick to New Mexico if you're moving - they've got more room than Arizona!

We have a culture here that Repubs hate, but they love Arizona, home of the green bologna sandwiches.

and no longer even have a suit that fits.

I think this is at the root of why many men dislike "dressing up." A suit that fits properly can be a joy to wear. Since it is an item that few men purchase regularly, the suit is often ill fitting and uncomfortable, and the thought of putting it on inspires dread. It doesn't have to be that way.

My brother, a retired NYC san man, spent many years avoiding weddings because he was always trying to squeeze into a suit ten years out of date. Finally, I dragged him to a store, and had him fitted for a new suit, along with all the goodies - new shirt, belt, shoes, the whole enchilada.
He loved it, and no longer dreads suit wearing occasions.

Everybody's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man!

John, it's all just vanity, and that ain't much my bag. A suit's a suit, whether off the rack or impeccably tailored, and if I never put another one on, it'll be just fine by me.

A related note: When my daughter got married, I managed to extract from her a promise that I would NOT have to wear a tux at the wedding. I have not once in my life worn a tux, and intend to go to my grave with that record intact.

A related note: When my daughter got married, I managed to extract from her a promise that I would NOT have to wear a tux at the wedding. I have not once in my life worn a tux, and intend to go to my grave with that record intact.

Put a rider in your will. They'll put one on you know - after.

...it's all just vanity...

If you put the suit on for your own sake, then yes.

If you put the suit on in order to show respect for the proceedings, then it is manners, not vanity.

A related note: When my daughter got married, I managed to extract from her a promise that I would NOT have to wear a tux at the wedding. I have not once in my life worn a tux, and intend to go to my grave with that record intact.

Put a rider in your will. They'll put one on you know - after.

I'm getting cremated, and Gail knows my wishes. LOL

...it's all just vanity...

If you put the suit on for your own sake, then yes.

If you put the suit on in order to show respect for the proceedings, then it is manners, not vanity.

I have enough manners to wear a suit at a wedding or a funeral, and if one of those events comes my way anytime soon, I'll go shopping. But it doesn't mean I have to enjoy it.

If you put the suit on for your own sake, then yes.

If you put the suit on in order to show respect for the proceedings, then it is manners, not vanity.

True, to a point. Wearing a suit to the wedding is showing respect for the wishes of others, but that is a small part of showing manners. I've met scores of boors in tuxedos and/or suits at weddings and banquets, proving to me that manners are not how you look when you arrive, but rather how you act the rest of the evening.

Granted, I run in limited circles on this score, having years ago sworn off suits, weddings, and banquets, for the sake of my bulging neck (can't eat when wearing a tie), ear drums (it's a wedding, need I say more?), and gastro-intestinal system (it's banquet food, need I say anything?)

[Robin Garr]

I think this is at the root of why many men dislike "dressing up." A suit that fits properly can be a joy to wear. Since it is an item that few men purchase regularly, the suit is often ill fitting and uncomfortable, and the thought of putting it on inspires dread. It doesn't have to be that way.

I was just going to post something like this, John, but you did it better. I was always a "hates ties" person until Mary got ahold of me and taught me how to dress up. I almost blanched when I saw the price tag on the first couple of suits and sport jackets she made me buy - not bespoke by any means, but high-quality off the rack, Canali and the like. But once I realized that a well-fitted, well-made suit is not uncomfortable to wear but really helps you look sharp (an area in which I need all the help I can get ), and that a quality tie from Italo Ferrelli or Ferragamo, etc., will "out-power" most of the other guys in the room, eerything changed.

I'm dressing up this afternoon to lead a Tuscan tasting downtown, and I'm not dreading it in the least ...

...But once I realized that a well-fitted, well-made suit is not uncomfortable to wear but really helps you look sharp...

Here you go Robin:

LeisureSuit.jpeg

If you put the suit on for your own sake, then yes.

If you put the suit on in order to show respect for the proceedings, then it is manners, not vanity.

True, to a point. Wearing a suit to the wedding is showing respect for the wishes of others, but that is a small part of showing manners.

I never said that wearing a suit was sufficient, it is merely necessary.

Thomas, you have a regrettable tendency to make-up arguments where there aren't any. This is not the first time. Please become more self-aware of this trait.

If you put the suit on for your own sake, then yes.

If you put the suit on in order to show respect for the proceedings, then it is manners, not vanity.

True, to a point. Wearing a suit to the wedding is showing respect for the wishes of others, but that is a small part of showing manners.

I never said that wearing a suit was sufficient, it is merely necessary.

Thomas, you have a regrettable tendency to make-up arguments where there aren't any. This is not the first time. Please become more self-aware of this trait.

Jeff,

Arguing the point was not my intent. Just furthering the point about manners, which is why I stated "True, to a point."

Sometimes I hate this medium.

It is fairly easy to confuse an argument with a mere thread hijack.

It is fairly easy to confuse an argument with a mere thread hijack.

Is not.

Is too.

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