What's your favorite burger?

Rogov, do they treat goat and camel the same way?

I like hamburgers without cheese, as Jeff does sometimes. First I want to comment on his artery clogging statement. A very large meta (retrospective) study looking at hundreds of other studies, but taking 20 of the best controlled to run a statistical analysis on, concluded that red meat does not adversely affect the cardiovascular system. Unfortunately I cannot remember the researcher, but it might have been conducted from the University of Pennsylvania. One could Google it. Processed meat, such as bacon and sausages, on the other hand, do. So my wife and I have added fresh red meat back into our regular diet.

Additionally, I want to also mention, since I have a touch of attention deficit disorder, I think, like a lot of people, today, that I am writing from Princeton University at the moment. Last night I enjoyed prime rib with a table full of very interesting people, mostly from China. The wealthy MD researcher sitting next to me said he didn’t drink wine but collected it: yup, Lafite Rothshield, just like Decanter Magazine talked about recently – the Panda in the room. I told him he was one of the enemies.

It is a really cool campus and the buzz here is a wonderful admixture of the very newest with the old. I am staying at the Nassau Inn, right on campus, which is 200 years old, with lots of renovations, though, which you would expect, but the overall setting lets you go back in time – and the surrounding little restaurants, ice cream parlors and outdoor rock bands in the evening, and such, make it a quaint place to hang out, even if one has to do some work in the bargain. I both dined and stopped for drinks at a restaurant called The Alchemist and The Barrister, right across the street. With a name like that I had to check it out, speaking of catchy admixtures, and sure enough there seemed to be a combination of old professorial and professional types mixed with tony students of above average beauty. It was nice to rub elbows with pulchritude but not stand out as a dinosaur in the bargain.

Really going afield, but I cannot seem to rein myself, like the movie Perfume dealt with, the most intoxication aroma in the world to me is what comes from some beautiful women. Not their perfume, but their bodily smell, especially late at night after some of the soap cover has worn off. I say beautiful, for just as a label of a wine like Lafite can influence your appreciation of the wine if you are not blind, extreme visual physical beauty, to me, can enhance the aroma of a woman, who already smells divine, even if you were smelling her blind. I was about to leave last night after the right amount of wine, but this blonde sat down next to me and this most wonderful smell imaginable wafted across my nose. So I drank a couple of glasses of Port to create a combinatorial bouquet worthy of the end grail of alchemy.

Anyway, back to hamburgers. The way I like them best is in fancy steakhouses, the big names where you pay $40 or $50 for a steak. I like to pick out a reasonably priced Bordeaux and drink it with a simple green salad and hamburger. That way you can get out with a bill around $100, which fits an expense account, rather than subsidize it with $100 out-of-pocket, as I had done for years, just to enable decent wine. These hamburgers are large, juicy, and usually prepared to perfection; often on a toasted brioche bun, and with a clutch of French Fries, a little moutarde, and ketchup, to dip in, are just perfect; and, to me, better now than steak.

Since we are introducing ground meats from non-Bovine critters...has anyone here tried Buffalo burgers or Emu burgers?


Buffalo is sweeter than beef and Emu is a bit dry, but both are very tasty, IMHO.

[Robin Garr]

Since we are introducing ground meats from non-Bovine critters...has anyone here tried Buffalo burgers or Emu burgers?

Buffalo is sweeter than beef and Emu is a bit dry, but both are very tasty, IMHO.

We have a large bison farm run by some very rich people just outside Louisville (of all places) and they provide a substantial supply for both retail grocery and the restaurant trade. Over recent years, just about every bistro in town offers a bison burger (and other bison dishes) as an alternative to beef. We buy it at the farmers' markets and prefer it to regular ground beef. I'm not sure I'd have called it "sweeter" exactly - some of the steak cuts are almost too lean and have a beefy flavor that comes close to "liverish." Careful prep is key. The ground beef, er, bison is outstanding, though.

I routinely buy ground bison for burgers. If preparing burgers for a crowd, I'll cut it with some ground beef due to the cost, but prefer it straight.

And a burger without cheese is like going deer hunting with an empty gun - what's the point?

Bison is easy to find around NYC. Emu much less so. The only time I've had it was on a visit to Sydney and we went to a restaurant that offered "bush tucker": emu, ostrich, crocodile, kangaroo, monkey-nut bread (I think it was called), and a bunch of other native plants. Mostly pretty good, too.

And a burger without cheese is like going deer hunting with an empty gun - what's the point?

The FleurBurger 5000 is served with a bottle of 1990 Petrus at Fleur de Lys in Las Vegas for $5,000, which I am sure you know. Do you think if they knew how to make a proper hamburger and put cheese on it they could get maybe $7,500?

And a burger without cheese is like going deer hunting with an empty gun - what's the point?

The FleurBurger 5000 is served with a bottle of 1990 Petrus at Fleur de Lys in Las Vegas for $5,000, which I am sure you know. Do you think if they knew how to make a proper hamburger and put cheese on it they could get maybe $7,500?

And just what made you think I would know that? A burger for more than $10-12 is pretty much a rip-off, no matter what is served with it.

Did you guys see the recent episode of Master Chef in which Hubert Keller (of the Fleur de Lys) engaged in a burger battle? The judges crtitcized his blue cheese burger (which sounded delightful to me).

I looked up his menu at the Mandalay and his ground Kobe beef Fleurburger Rossini with foie gras and black truffle with fingerling potatoes would suit me, hold the 1990 Petrus!

And a burger without cheese is like going deer hunting with an empty gun - what's the point?

The FleurBurger 5000 is served with a bottle of 1990 Petrus at Fleur de Lys in Las Vegas for $5,000, which I am sure you know. Do you think if they knew how to make a proper hamburger and put cheese on it they could get maybe $7,500?

And just what made you think I would know that? A burger for more than $10-12 is pretty much a rip-off, no matter what is served with it.

It made the news a few times, as was intended by such extravagance. It sounds like the chef did try putting cheese on at least one of them.

That's where I got the idea of having upscale burgers all by themselves in nice restaurants, except for enjoying a bottle of Bordeaux with them; only for $100, rather than $5,000. Once I was able to have a La Fleur-Petrus with the hamburger, which came as close as I could to the real McCoy. I brought it up, possibly incorrectly, depending on how many times such a multi-thousand dollar burger was actually served with cheese, because I thought the market concluded that the very best burgers are served sans cheese. Not that the market is very smart.

[Jenise]

That's where I got the idea of having upscale burgers all by themselves in nice restaurants, except for enjoying a bottle of Bordeaux with them; only for $100, rather than $5,000. Once I was able to have a La Fleur-Petrus with the hamburger, which came as close as I could to the real McCoy. I brought it up, possibly incorrectly, depending on how many times such a multi-thousand dollar burger was actually served with cheese, because I thought the market concluded that the very best burgers are served sans cheese. Not that the market is very smart.

I've ordered the $28 burger at Daniel Boulud's--regret to say I didn't think much of it. It didn't really taste--oh what's the word I want, opulent?--it was on the dry side. An In n' Out tastes more luxurious than that did.

Jenise, I haven't been mysepf in years, but Hamburger Mary's in Vancouver (on Davie St.) used to do a great burger. Go to http://members.shaw.ca/hamburgermarys/ and click on burgers and look the range over.

My fave used to be the Works (Flame grilled 6 oz Alberta beef burger with hickory smoked bacon, aged cheddar cheese and sautéed mushrooms) and the Arctic (Free Range Canadian bison, Venison, Musk ox)

Of course my favourite burger in Vancouver was only available at Vera's - see http://www.verasburgershack.com/ They have one that they will only let you eat in the restaurant - it will self-destruct if attempts are made to transport it. I've heard it went downhill in recent years yet it won best burger in Vancouver last year so worth a look.

That's where I got the idea of having upscale burgers all by themselves in nice restaurants, except for enjoying a bottle of Bordeaux with them; only for $100, rather than $5,000. Once I was able to have a La Fleur-Petrus with the hamburger, which came as close as I could to the real McCoy. I brought it up, possibly incorrectly, depending on how many times such a multi-thousand dollar burger was actually served with cheese, because I thought the market concluded that the very best burgers are served sans cheese. Not that the market is very smart.

I've ordered the $28 burger at Daniel Boulud's--regret to say I didn't think much of it. It didn't really taste--oh what's the word I want, opulent?--it was on the dry side. An In n' Out tastes more luxurious than that did.

The trouble with top restaurants is they feel they have to be fancier than just good, and very good is what a burger should be. I know we have discussed this before, but I think the very best restaurants for burgers are the big name steak houses that offer burgers for kids or derelicts, while the real men eat $50 steaks, but feel they need to beef up the size and presentation of the burgers from McDonald's or a diner's level to justify the price and status of the famous steakhouses.

To me, nothing in the world goes better with a bottle of fine Bordeaux than a good, big, juicy hamburger on a perfectly toasted fresh roll or bun. As much as I prefer claret, I think a good cal cab goes best with steak. So I don't eat steak much.

Since we are introducing ground meats from non-Bovine critters...has anyone here tried Buffalo burgers or Emu burgers?

Buffalo is sweeter than beef and Emu is a bit dry, but both are very tasty, IMHO.

We have a large bison farm run by some very rich people just outside Louisville (of all places) and they provide a substantial supply for both retail grocery and the restaurant trade. Over recent years, just about every bistro in town offers a bison burger (and other bison dishes) as an alternative to beef. We buy it at the farmers' markets and prefer it to regular ground beef. I'm not sure I'd have called it "sweeter" exactly - some of the steak cuts are almost too lean and have a beefy flavor that comes close to "liverish." Careful prep is key. The ground beef, er, bison is outstanding, though.

I've never had Bison steak...but I'd be willing to try it, Robin.

My first experience with ground Buffalo meat was on Catalina Island while visiting a buddy of mine. It was served on toasted/buttered sour dough bread with mustard and all the fixin's: Homemade baked beans, fries with a slice of dill pickle and homemade cole slaw. UM!


I washed it all down with an ice cold draft beer.

And a burger without cheese is like going deer hunting with an empty gun - what's the point?

Lactose intolerant here [love cheese, but can't have it]....but I would make the same argument about mustard, dill pickles and chilli.

[Jenise]

My first experience with ground Buffalo meat was on Catalina Island while visiting a buddy of mine. It was served on toasted/buttered sour dough bread with mustard and all the fixin's: Homemade baked beans, fries with a slice of dill pickle and homemade cole slaw. UM!

Was this at the airport? The restaurant there's famous for their buffalo burgers. And you do kind of feel like celebrating when you survive the landing without going off either end into the drink. Done it!

We have another local restaurant that has an Indian (local, not Asian) theme, and has been going for aboput 80 years. They have a big burger menu http://www.tomahawkrestaurant.com/menu_burgers.html With all of them carrying local Indian names except the largest, the Dagwood. Onions, lettuce, ground organic beef patty, egg, wiener, tomato and Tomahawk special sauce. I'd happily lose the weiner, but the rest is excellent.

They are better known for their magnificent breakfasts though, including the Yukon, an assembly of eggs, back bacon, hash browns and toast, buty that is for another thread..

We have another local restaurant that has an Indian (local, not Asian) theme, and has been going for aboput 80 years. They have a big burger menu http://www.tomahawkrestaurant.com/menu_burgers.html With all of them carrying local Indian names except the largest, the Dagwood. Onions, lettuce, ground organic beef patty, egg, wiener, tomato and Tomahawk special sauce. I'd happily lose the weiner, but the rest is excellent.

They are better known for their magnificent breakfasts though, including the Yukon, an assembly of eggs, back bacon, hash browns and toast, buty that is for another thread..

How many hamburger offerings (not the ones you list) are euphemisms for consuming enormous quantities of fat to satisfy cravings of overweight people while permitting them to report to themselves and others that they had a hamburger or a sandwich for lunch? Are these giant messes of fat and grease from McDonald's, Wendy's, etc., really "hamburgers" in the running for hamburger connoisseur opinion?

This is where I had my first buffalo. Didn't have the burger, though, I had the chili. It was pretty good.

http://www.tommysjoynt.com/

My first experience with ground Buffalo meat was on Catalina Island while visiting a buddy of mine. It was served on toasted/buttered sour dough bread with mustard and all the fixin's: Homemade baked beans, fries with a slice of dill pickle and homemade cole slaw. UM!

Was this at the airport? The restaurant there's famous for their buffalo burgers. And you do kind of feel like celebrating when you survive the landing without going off either end into the drink. Done it!

It was indeed.

And when our pilot made the turn to land, looking at that lilly pad of a landing strip sure got my heart racing!

We have another local restaurant that has an Indian (local, not Asian) theme, and has been going for aboput 80 years. They have a big burger menu http://www.tomahawkrestaurant.com/menu_burgers.html With all of them carrying local Indian names except the largest, the Dagwood. Onions, lettuce, ground organic beef patty, egg, wiener, tomato and Tomahawk special sauce. I'd happily lose the weiner, but the rest is excellent.

They are better known for their magnificent breakfasts though, including the Yukon, an assembly of eggs, back bacon, hash browns and toast, buty that is for another thread..

How many hamburger offerings (not the ones you list) are euphemisms for consuming enormous quantities of fat to satisfy cravings of overweight people while permitting them to report to themselves and others that they had a hamburger or a sandwich for lunch? Are these giant messes of fat and grease from McDonald's, Wendy's, etc., really "hamburgers" in the running for hamburger connoisseur opinion?

I think moderation is the key.

As an everyday item, not good.

Once in a great while, not bad.

And a burger without cheese is like going deer hunting with an empty gun - what's the point?

I can understand that sentiment. And I do think cheese is ideally associated with hamburgers (or cheeseburgers specifically)

Yet my thinking is still that the "burger" is the key half of the word. I'm always craving a burger for the meat first and foremost. But I'm also speaking of a burger that has a wonderful balance with condiments and (preferably for me) diced/tender onions. If all those things are present, then I find cheese to honestly be the "odd man out". Assuming something has to be left off. Cheese doesnt necessarily ruin the burger for me. Though some indeed can! Maybe that's what I mean by it inevitably being the "odd man out", in certain situations.

Perhaps my logic is somewhat similar to why I love meat loaf and yet never think of cheese with it. Not exactly a same comparison but similar perhaps. Though I do need ketchup...

Jeff

I never put cheese on a meatloaf, although a little parm might be good. On the flip side, I guess I've never had a hamburger plain that I didn't think that cheese would have made it better.