Calling Ms. Manners

[Jenise]

Well, I think it's rude to call someone else rude when that person is questioning the potential rudeness of a person who is counseling others to be rude, all in response to rudeness.

Which is very rude of you to point out. I think the circle's complete now.

Well, I think it's rude to call someone else rude when that person is questioning the potential rudeness of a person who is counseling others to be rude, all in response to rudeness.

Which is very rude of you to point out. I think the circle's complete now.

And rude of you to say so!

(May the circle be unbroken.)

[Robin Garr]

Or conversely, we could look deeply into our heart and say, "F**k it; who cares?"

Bless your heart, Hoke.

Rude, rude, rude, rude.

And more.

Sounded to me like you invited the two couples to your place to have some fun and to get to know each other better. Quite a hospitable thing to do. Sounds like those couples have decided to have a party of their own at your house and at your expense with their buddies who you don't know.

Did I say I think their behavior is rude?

Might be time to cancel the event.

I would never invite them again. If it were a larger party I would not have a problem but to invite strangers into your home when it is a small intimate group I believe is really showing poor manners. Question: What would have happened if you had said no?

Xenia - that's the word I was searching the dark recesses of my brain for in my previous post.

I remember as an undergraduate thinking what a concept to live one's life by.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenia_%28Greek%29

[Robin Garr]

Xenia

<lightbulb> You reckon that's what the founders of the town of Xenia, Ohio, had in mind?

Hoke,
I'm not sure with which side you are siding.

I consider the actions of the guests extremely rude and can hardly believe it happened to you three times recently! Don't ever offer to treat those guests to dinner in a restaurant--you might end up paying for several extra diners!

Hoke,
I'm not sure with which side you are siding.

Neither, JC.

We don't even have to wonder what Ms. Manners would say:

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/ ... d=23585235

[Robin Garr]

We don't even have to wonder what Ms. Manners would say:

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/ ... d=23585235

Miss Manners, and most of you guys, are still talking about nice, college-educated, city people, people like us. I think Bill came up against a different view of his very kind and generous country neighbors in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34165

It's just a whole different way of relating to the world, not necessarily better or worse, only different. That's all I've been trying to say when I question whether "rude" is the fairest way to describe what we have here.

We don't even have to wonder what Ms. Manners would say:

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/ ... d=23585235

Miss Manners, and most of you guys, are still talking about nice, college-educated, city people, people like us. I think Bill came up against a different view of his very kind and generous country neighbors in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34165

It's just a whole different way of relating to the world, not necessarily better or worse, only different. That's all I've been trying to say when I question whether "rude" is the fairest way to describe what we have here.

I've known lots of country folk, Robin. Not single one of them would have done this. They would have considered it rude.

[Robin Garr]

I've known lots of country folk, Robin. Not single one of them would have done this. They would have considered it rude.

Read the link.

If you're dealing with a "lagniappe" (to use the Louisiana name) protocol such as described in the other thread, then perhaps Ms. Manners would advocate relaxing the usual rules. If you routinely do favors for the invitees, and they for you, then perhaps it might be OK for them to bring along uninvited guests, provided you have the same privilege with them. If the relationship seems to be one-way, Ms. Manners suggests politely informing them that although they (the invited guests) are most welcome, and they may suggest other invitees, you, as host/hostess with limited entertainment resources must insist on the final say-so as to who is permitted to attend the function. If they're real friends, they'll understand and respect your decision.

-Paul W.

Robin, you did not comment on RW's observation that only one of the couples brought something to the (suddenly expanded) event, and that was beer for personal consumption. Do I take it correctly, then, that you are disappointed in them? They should have brought a dish if this is akin to a gathering with kin?

[Robin Garr]

Robin, you did not comment on RW's observation that only one of the couples brought something to the (suddenly expanded) event, and that was beer for personal consumption. Do I take it correctly, then, that you are disappointed in them? They should have brought a dish if this is akin to a gathering with kin?

ALL I'm saying is that Bill moved into a rural area with a different culture, and for all us sophisticated city folks to be judging them by our standards is a little off base. Hell, I certainly wouldn't act like that, and neither would you. But I just don't think these people were being "rude" by their standards. I also found it interesting that some of the same people who assumed that a party means open hospitality were generous about handing out a package of beef as a simple gesture to a neighbor.

I'm getting kind of tired of defending this, but somehow I just don't think I'm communicating my point effectively, which makes me wonder how I've been able to make a rude living by throwing words around for all these years.

Robin,

I get it. But one has to distinguish between that situation and simple rude freeloading. It all depends on the circumstances.

-Paul W.

I believe I see what you're getting at, Robin, in that different cultures have different standards.

But I can say that, as perhaps the closest thing to white trash redneck hillbilly cracker backwoods---in my youth---that you're likely ever to have met outside a James Dickey novel, that never...never...never...would have been acceptable in my family's culture, not in the circumstances described.

Friendliness, yes; sharing, yes; guest gifts and hospitality and unselfish sharing, yes. But to have extended an invitation that was not yours to extend, to bring people the hosts were not aware of and did not know (and to have those guests bring beer only for themselves? what an outstanding insult that would be on every level)? That just wouldn't have been done in the culture I knew.

Country socials, barn raisings, church dinners and picnics, harvest celebrations---all the social events of farm life---are very open and welcoming, but that's different. An invitation into someone's home is sacred, and not to be treated lightly (even though the outward behavior in reaction might make it seem okay).

We don't even have to wonder what Ms. Manners would say:

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/ ... d=23585235

Miss Manners, and most of you guys, are still talking about nice, college-educated, city people, people like us. I think Bill came up against a different view of his very kind and generous country neighbors in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34165

It's just a whole different way of relating to the world, not necessarily better or worse, only different. That's all I've been trying to say when I question whether "rude" is the fairest way to describe what we have here.

Except that's not the same thing. The equivalent would have been that farmer walking over to their neighbor's farm, grabbing some beef, and handing it over as a gift. Generosity with one's own time, effort, resources is great. Generosity with someone else's is far more questionable.

[Robin Garr]

Except that's not the same thing. The equivalent would have been that farmer walking over to their neighbor's farm, grabbing some beef, and handing it over as a gift. Generosity with one's own time, effort, resources is great. Generosity with someone else's is far more questionable.

Okay ... Thanks, Jay. I hear you, but I don't think I'm going to be able to communicate what I've been trying to get at here, and that's probably more my fault than anyone else's. I don't think any of us participating in this discussion need to be advised not to ask the host to add uninvited guests to our party. If anyone was unclear about that before, I think we've educated them by now.

Somewhat off-topic but not irrelevant. Has anyone noticed that Miss Manners invariably refers to herself in the third person? (e.g. Miss Manners thinks...) and that this is most definitely not socially acceptable behavior.

Somewhat off-topic but not irrelevant. Has anyone noticed that Miss Manners invariably refers to herself in the third person? (e.g. Miss Manners thinks...) and that this is most definitely not socially acceptable behavior.

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/ ... d=20398502

Somewhat off-topic but not irrelevant. Has anyone noticed that Miss Manners invariably refers to herself in the third person? (e.g. Miss Manners thinks...) and that this is most definitely not socially acceptable behavior.

Well, when we're speaking of etiquette in the terms and context of Ms. Manners, we are talking in absolute, abstract, and impersonal terms, so I think the third person is appropriate and provides the correct distancing of what is correct in absolute and abstract social norms from what the author might personally feel.

The alternative, as Ms. Manners pointed out at the URL just cited, is to use the Royal "we", to which Ms. Manners, as a foreigner and commoner, is not entitled.

I do think the use of the third person in this context is appropriate. Substitute "polite social behavior is" for "Ms. Manners says" in all the appropriate places, if you wish.

-Paul W.