The Bad Substitutions Hall of Fame is now open

If there's anything worse than foods that can be sinfully bad for you, it's trying to pretend those bad foods can still be the same by being health-ified...

I'm not sure that's really the point behind veggie burgers. Well maybe for some people, but...

The way I see it, the concept of protein patties with a starchey-breadey surrounding and crunchy bright vegetable condiment plus wet sauce to bring it all together is pretty universal and can be found in all cultures. It's not really a question of healthy or not-healthy.

What goes in that patty varies from region to region. Americans have a lot of space for cows so they started making burgers. But combining pulses and vegetables into patties is probably older than the American hamburger, and without any particular health-marketing gimmick in mind. Whether or not that health marketing gimmick exists for some people is another story.

I repeat -- VEGETABLE BURGERS!!

I repeat -- VEGETABLE BURGERS!!

I'm not sure what your point is.

The word burger has nothing to do with meat.

I was, indeed, just reflecting on my own personal cynicism of veggie burgers based on the general purpose/way they're used here in the States (relative to hamburgers).

Maybe it's because I know so many vegetarians, but my exposure to veggie burgers in the US has been primarily as a source of food for people who eat a lot of legumes. Nothing to do with being a 'healthy' option. But then I tend to frequent circles where vegetarianism is pretty mainstream and diverse (i.e. there all all kinds of reasons for being vegetarian and they're not really an issue).

Tofurkey.

Even the name sounds obscene.

-Paul W.

Tofurkey..

I agree. This kind of stuff gives tofu a bad name.

Regarding veggie burgers:

Lots of cultures have the idea of fried vegetable/legume-based patties. Falafel and vegetable tikkas are just two examples that come to mind. I think what's being objected to here is the "veggie burger" as a lame substitute for the grilled beef hamburger patty--a purely US abomination, I believe.

-Paul W.

I think what's being objected to here is the "veggie burger" as a lame substitute for the grilled beef hamburger patty--a purely US abomination, I believe.

Oh, I fear these lame things have spread beyond the US.

But to follow up on my persnickety point, the main problem is with the lame versions, not the concept.

Rahsaan,

Agreed--it's the lame implementation as a "substitute" for grilled beef patties that's the bad substitution. Falafel, veg. tikkas, and veg. kabaabs stand up as good food in their own right.

Here's another couple for the list:

Cheez Wiz (squirted out of a CAN, no less), and Velveeta as substitutes for real cheese.

-Paul W.

P.S. - On the late lamented Cooks forum on Digital Equipment Corporation's internal network, one poster remarked, "I don't know why the call the stuff 'Pasteurized Process Cheese Food'. I put some in my refrigerator, and the cheese won't touch it."

I was, indeed, just reflecting on my own personal cynicism of veggie burgers based on the general purpose/way they're used here in the States (relative to hamburgers).

Maybe it's because I know so many vegetarians, but my exposure to veggie burgers in the US has been primarily as a source of food for people who eat a lot of legumes. Nothing to do with being a 'healthy' option. But then I tend to frequent circles where vegetarianism is pretty mainstream and diverse (i.e. there all all kinds of reasons for being vegetarian and they're not really an issue).

That could be it. I admit my experience/observation of them is more on the non-vegetarian level.

Jeff

The word burger has nothing to do with meat.

Well, etymologically speaking, it DOES have to do with meat. "Hamburger" in German means "the food that the city of Hamburg is famous for", which was grilled meat patties. Similarly, we have "Frankfurter" (the sausage that Frankfurt made famous), "Wiener" (the sausage that Wien [Vienna] made famous), and "Berliner" (the renowned jam-filled doughnut from Berlin--JFK in his famous speech actually said he was proud say "I am a jam-filled doughnut").

It's the same sort of linguistic corruption as has happened with Fajitas. "Fajita" means "skirt steak" in Spanish, and so to speak of "Chicken fajitas" is a linguistic absurdity, unless your dish were to be made only with the diaphragm muscle of fowl. Or the modern culinary meaning of "coulis". Or (horror of horrors) the modern use of "sliders"--it turns my stomach to read that on the menu at a fine restaurant--it gives me bad flashbacks to the original meaning of "sliders", namely, White Castle hamburgers. It boggles my mind that anything with connotations that revolting could be considered trendy.

-Paul W.

Well, etymologically speaking, it DOES have to do with meat. "Hamburger" in German means "the food that the city of Hamburg is famous for", which was grilled meat patties...

I suppose if you take the extra step to include the precise food, then there is a connection to meat.

But I was thinking more of the general connection to Hamburg food, which doesn't necessarily have to be meat.

And of course the type of 'burgers' they were eating in Hamburg when the phrase originated did not necessarily resemble the types of 'burgers' found in the US today. These terms are always moving concepts.

But your point is well taken. It was clearly more closely tied to beef than to chickpeas.

Any Indian restaurant that substitutes a regular oven for a clay oven for 'tandoori' chicken/naan/etc.

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I remind you all of...

tofu pups.


Jeff

[Jenise]

But to follow up on my persnickety point, the main problem is with the lame versions, not the concept.

In total agreement. I've had some excellent versions that were quite tasty--so much so that they're a desirable destination unto themselves, not a "substitute". At the very least, not one that's foisted on an unsuspecting customer expecting The Real Deal and getting...well, spinach instead of basil, as my original post mentioned. That wasn't a "how we do it" substitution, a house style, that was just someone being CHEAP. Or ignorant, your pick.

The Crabmeat fake "Surimi shrimps"

Non-fat Half and Half

Chicken/turkey sausage - I've never had any that tasted good. There was always an off-flavor of some kind.

Does this qualify?: Any/all fake sugars.

They do taste funny, but the really bad part is that they encourage people who can't eat / don't want sugar to continue liking sugary things! That's entirely the wrong approach. Isn't that torture?

Non-fat Half and Half

Chicken/turkey sausage - I've never had any that tasted good. There was always an off-flavor of some kind.

Totally agree with the first one. Horrible, horrible stuff. Disagree with the second however. We just had some really good chicken Italian sausage in marinara last evening. Now, turkey hot dogs are another story IMO. They are just gross.

I repeat -- VEGETABLE BURGERS!!

I'm not sure what your point is.

The word burger has nothing to do with meat.

There are 3 points to my rant:
1. despite the fact that vegetable sandwiches have been around for quite some time (of which I am aware), a burger is conventionally referred to as a substitute hamburger which is a sandwich containing a bun and a meat patty as described in dictionaries on Answers.com, Dictionary.com, and Miriam-Webster online dictionary.
2. the thread requested a nomination -- which didn't mean it had to be right, agreed upon, or politically correct.
3. sometimes it would be interesting to be able to take a topic such as this and run with it to see how many variations on a theme we can produce without it devolving into a debate on the proper use of a word or term. GEESH!

Let's have some fun, people. An Ode to you Rahsaan. Sorry for yelling!

[Jenise]

The Crabmeat fake "Surimi shrimps"

Heinz, I nominated 'Krab' meaning the fake surimi stuff, but had forgotten all about the fake shrimp! Haven't seen those on our side of the pond in ages. Not that I've been looking!

[Jenise]

Lamb Osso Bucco

Interesting that you think so. Though veal is definitely more refined, lamb shanks make wonderful osso bucco. I make each in a different style to differentiate between the resultant dishes, but there's definitely room for both in my world.

Lamb Osso Bucco

Interesting that you think so. Though veal is definitely more refined, lamb shanks make wonderful osso bucco. I make each in a different style to differentiate between the resultant dishes, but there's definitely room for both in my world.

I actually prefer the lamb. Would rather have my veal as a chop or scallopini.

Lamb Osso Bucco

Interesting that you think so. Though veal is definitely more refined, lamb shanks make wonderful osso bucco. I make each in a different style to differentiate between the resultant dishes, but there's definitely room for both in my world.

I actually prefer the lamb. Would rather have my veal as a chop or scallopini.

If you see Osso Bucco on a menu in a restaurant it should be made of veal as per definition by any accomplished cook. If you want lamb shanks Osso Bucco style so be it, and I find that particular dish to be very tasty. I bring this up because of an experience we had in an upscale restaurant where my wife ordered Osso Bucco and lamb was used instead of veal. She complained to the waitress, who called the manager, who called the chef, who apologized to my wife, and said he was instructed to serve it as described and at the same time admitting it was not Osso Bucco. In defense of the restaurant they did not charge my wife for the "Lamb Shank".

a burger is conventionally referred to as a substitute hamburger which is a sandwich containing a bun and a meat patty as described in dictionaries on Answers.com, Dictionary.com, and Miriam-Webster online dictionary.

The funny thing is that on each of those links, the second definition for burger is "a sandwich with a non-meat patty, i.e. tofu burger, veggie burger.."