My initial foray into sous vide

Thanks Ian - good points.

Ian beat me to it but yes, if you have air in the bag it will float and you won't get the even heating all around the bag.

I think the time might have come to do an update, because to some extent I'm paralleling Jay's sous vide voyage.

I have recently put together a reasonably priced sous-vide set up. It consists of a 29 litre steriliser/jam maker/soup kettlle, with a crude thermostat. I'm feeding that with power via a bang-bang on off thermostat with a precision of 1 °C. I accept that the precision of this set up is never going to be able to be better than ±1C° but with very few exceptions, that - according to Douglas Baldwin - is close enough. I'll perhaps have to be careful if I want to carry out some fish cookery, because I might be in the danger zone from bacteria. However, as long as I keep above 57°C I don't think I'm at risk when cooking meat or vegetables. The cost of this set up was under £80 (I already have a good clamp style sous vide machine).

Anyway, I've still to carry out detailed temperature tests, but already I can say that I can keep the entire water bath at a preset temperature with a precision of ± 1.5°C in practice. It does continue to heat up a bit more than I'd hoped, but by setting the target "off" temperature at 1C° below the mean temp I want to achieve, it all seems to be working fine.

So my first real experiment was to make a sous-vide variant of Chicken breast fillets Archduke. I made the sauce separately, and cooked the chicken breast fillets, as Douglas Baldwin suggests (Brine ½ hour in 5% brine, followed by 1h30 for a 30mm thick fillet at 63-64°C). After 30 seconds searng at the last minute I napped the chicken with the sauce. The result was excellent. The texture of the meat was beautiful, tender and juicy, and the flavour outstanding. This has greatly encouraged me to pursue my experiments.

Next. Confit de canard. I've got 4 duck legs from fattened ducks salting in my fridge. Tomorrow they will be rinsed, dried and cooked sous-vide with a little extra duck fat for 8-10 hours at 75°C.

Then I'll order a good chink of beef brisket and try that. Again following Baldwin, I'll salt and smoke it, before cooking for 24 hours at 75°C. If I don't keep posting on this thread, you'll know something went radically wrong!

A further update, and a request for help and/or advice.

I said I'd got some duck salting, well here are some details. I pretty well exactly followed the recipe on Fiftyfourdegrees http://www.fiftyfourdegrees.com/lang/en-us/archives/1158 using four top class duck legs (from fatted duck) from a local producer (€2.20 each). The recipe was a little coy about quantities so I put a good layer of coarse sea salt in the bottom of a dish, mixed in a tsp or two of dried thyme, and crumbled in four bayleaves. After checking that I didn't need to defeather or otherwise mess with the legs, I rolled them carefully in the salt mixture trying to get as much to stick as I could - just as when making a traditional confit (as he said). I then packed them all together in one sous vide bag and left them 48 hours in the fridge to salt. After removing from the bag, I rinsed them off, removing as much of the thyme as I could, and also removing the thin membrane that was enclosing the meat side. After drying them I spread 1 tbs of duck fat on the flesh side, and vac packed each in individual small sachets. These went into my water bath set at 75C and stayed there for 10 hours (I'd checked after 8 and they didn't seem ready to me). I have a semi professional clamp type vacuum sealer but after a while I did notice that as Baldwin predicted, a little gas had appeared in the bag which tended to sit "upright" in the water batch, so I made sure they stayed submerged with a s/s grill I happened to have lying around. After 10 hours, I then took them out, chilled in running cold water and put them into my ventilated fridge to continue to cool fast.

So today was our chance to try out two of them. We treated them exactly as we do bought confit. Warmed the packets in tap hot water, and when the juices and fat were well liquid, poured them out through a sieve, and then let the legs drain a few minutes. I then put them on a grid over a wok of boiling water flavoured with Herbes de Provence, covered them and let them steam fast for 15 minutes. When the time was up, they went into a very hot (240C) oven skin side up for a further 15 minutes. We then ate them.

So how were they? Slightly too salty (VERY slightly only, but I'm never tender on my experiments) and slightly tougher than the commercially produced confit we usually buy Perfectly edible, however. The good side is that the flavour was fantastic. Much more "ducky" than the usual ones, and much tastier. Best of all, the skin was utterly divine. Not a trace of subcutaneous fat either - it had all melted out during the sous vide process, and wonderfully crispy. I've never had better duck skin except in a restaurant in Hong Kong specialising in Pekin Duck. So - overall significantly better than the confit we buy, even considering the two slight faults.

So now some advice please. Baldwin talks about 3-6 hours of brining in flavoured brine, followed by 8-12 hours at 80C. In "Kamikaze cooking" http://www.kamikazecookery.com/blogs/133 Hugh describes his success with duck legs, cooking them for 15 hours at 83 degrees. However he used ordinary duck legs from Sainsbury's (UK supermarket), which are far tenderer than those I buy here. Given that I have twin goals - slightly less salty and slightly tenderer, what would you change? It's obvious that I could easily reduce the salting time to 24 hours, or just brine as Baldwin suggests, but given that - talking of beef - I've seen

"Above 160°F (70°C), tenderness decreases and cooking weight loss continues to increase because of myofibrillar hardening (Powell et al., 2000). "

What would you do? Follow Baldwin and cook 12 hours at 80, or follow Hugh and go even longer to 15 hours at 83?.

Experimenting with duck breasts again.

Last night I removed the skins and cooked them sous vide with fresh time to (hopefully) infuse the fat with the flavor of the thyme.

Now I'm cooking one bag of baby potatoes and one bag of sliced larger potatoes sous vide with the duck fat and some more thyme for 2 hours at 183. I'll salt them and roast them briefly at a high temp just before serving.

The 2 breasts I'll cook once the potatoes are done. One of them with lemongrass in the bag and the other with orange zest and ginger. They'll be finished with a quick sear on the cast iron griddle.

Fascinating! I've not even flirted in my mind with doing vegetables s.v.

I'm making some more duck confits. I've decided to follow Baldwin closer this time. I bought half a dozen "legs for confit" which come from fatted ducks ad they are salting at the moment in 2 litres of 10% nitrited brine infused with thyme, bay and orange slices. They will stay in the brine 6 hours (the max he suggests) and then after rinsing and drying, will be vac packed and cooked s.v. for 12 hours at 80°C (176). After chilling. I'll be able to cook one of these new ones against one I made last weekend to see how they compare.

On Wednesday I'm collecting some beef brisket so I'll be starting that up too.

Hi again,

As a follow up. We had the two duck confits today. For the second batch, I did what I said in y last and then after drying and adding fat (I forgot to add salt & pepper) we packed them sous-vide and then cooked at 80C for 12 hours. Cooled, chilled and then we heated one, together with one from the earlier batch as described earlier. The brined legs were a lot less salty (arguably not salty enough, but I''m being ultra fussy here, and if I'd seasoned before vac packing, I'm sure that would have corrected it). and with a perfect texture. The flavour was excellent, significantly better than the bought confits, and dead easy to make, so I can serve them without turning a hair . The use of nitrite gave the meat a slightly pink colour, as you would expect. The only slight disappointment is that on neither of the legs was the skin as crispy as it had been the last time. It was still brilliant, but not as good as it had been the first time.

The orange zest and ginger was a definite success (I also liked the lemongrass version but it was a much less noticeable flavor - I might try piercing the duck next time).

The texture was better at 2.5 hours than with a shorter cooking time, I think I'll try going even longer next time.

The weird thing is that I cooked some baby potatoes side by side with larger potatoes cut into slices. The baby potatoes were cooked through but the potato slices were pretty much raw. Haven't figured that out yet.

The weird thing is that I cooked some baby potatoes side by side with larger potatoes cut into slices. The baby potatoes were cooked through but the potato slices were pretty much raw. Haven't figured that out yet.

Collective unconscious: the slices know that they came from a larger potato, hence, they act as if they are.

Does Jung give any sous-vide recipes?

Does Jung give any sous-vide recipes?

Of course he does, Freud Eagle.

Oh well, that one fell like a lead balloon. A shame no one speaks German!

Anyway, A bit of an update. We've got about 4kg of brisket in a 4% salt, 3% sugar brine. After drying and smoking they'll be going into the cooker following Baldwin's method. (80°C for 36 hours).

Nothing else I know of could bring about that kind of result, and I've been craving a chance to have that again.

But reading around I've come to the conclusion (which you must have too) that there's no way to really achieve real sous vide without the machine. .

What happens if you follow (for example) Jay's chicken breast recipe, but do it in foil papillote at the lowest oven temperature for a long time (1 hour?)? Has anyone tried that or something like it? Anything that would make chicken breast interesting and edible is appreciated.

What happens if you follow (for example) Jay's chicken breast recipe, but do it in foil papillote at the lowest oven temperature for a long time (1 hour?)?

Well, a lot depends upon how accurate the oven is. You might get perfect results, if it will hold a perfect 64°C for an hour and a half. It the oven is too hot, you will get a different result, not necessarily bad, but not with that velvetty texture, I suspect. If the oven is significantly cool you stand quite a good chance of getting food poisoning.

I can't agree with Jenise that a cobbled together system isn't worth trying. I think it's fair to say that the two essentials 1 a really accurate (and preferably tested) probe thermometer. Without it, you really don't know where you are.
And 2 a vacuum pack machine that works. Personally I think it's as important as a mixer or a microwave in a decently equipped kitchen, and the sous vide cooking possibilities are an added extra.

With those two, there's nothing to stop you putting a large pan of water on the stove, heating it to the right temperature, popping the chicken pouches in and keep it at the right temperature for an hour or an hour and a half. Needs some supervision, but hey... we're supposed to be foodies here, and a little sacrifice must surely be worth it. You suggested an oven on very low. Well if the oven goes low enough, then put the pan (with the probe installed) in the oven and if it's adjusted right, you won't get any significant change over relatively long periods. This is extremely practicable - I've done lamb at 59°C for 9 hours without any trouble at all. However, if you don't want to tie up the oven for that length of time, or if you want to be able to extend to very long cooking times, as I'll be using for brisket soon, then some kind of electrically heated and thermostatically controlled water bath is probably essential. For under
$150 I've got a system that maintains the temperature to +1.5C° and -1C° indefinitely, without any supervision. If you read what Baldwin has to say about the precision of temperature needed, that's fine. Anyone wanting to improve that could get and tune a PID and should get control to ± 0.5°C and that should be good enough for the MOST anal cook. The PID would cost around €150

Well, we did the brisket - cut in two to be easier to handle.

It took me a while to work out how to serve it, other than in killer sandwiches, but have now got it sussed,

Remove the fat and juices from the meat (easiest is to heat gently) .Check if there are any serious layers of gristle or fat and remove if so. Vac pack again till cold. Now slice thinly and arrange the slices on a very hot plate. Pour the boiling sauce over (I used the jus mixed with some Demi-Glace I happened to have hanging around and it was perfect). and dress the plate with any vegetables you desire. Serve immediately. The sauce and plate re-heat the meat perfectly. It's no good trying to heat it any other way, as it's so tender it falls to bit .

Another one to be repeated.

(I used the jus mixed with some Demi-Glace I happened to have hanging around and it was perfect).

Well, duh (smacks forehead)! Now I know what I should be doing with all the juices from the duck breast that collect in the bag. I've just been freezing them for future use.

Hi Jay,

(I used the jus mixed with some Demi-Glace I happened to have hanging around and it was perfect).

Well, duh (smacks forehead)! Now I know what I should be doing with all the juices from the duck breast that collect in the bag. I've just been freezing them for future use.

I cook (and now make) a lot of duck confit, and that has quite a lot of (rather salty) jus. Too salty, really, to use as a jus, so I add it to my soups (When serving a meal to my B&B guests, we always serve soup). As for the jus from other meats - I've not tried duck legs other than as a confit yet, so I can't say what I'd do. Baldwin suggestsw thickening the jus (from brisket) with a little cornflour and serving it s a "small" sauce. I tried it and I could have used just that as he suggests, but as I said in my last, I had some demi-glace in stock, so I decided to use that as well. It was really good.

Chicken breasts again tomorrow for guests. "A l'Archiduc".

The experiments continue

4 short ribs, 72 hours at 140F, then a quick sear and sprinkled with kosher salt.
I meant to take them out after 48 hour but forgot about them on the way home and bought dinner.

Rib #1 - shredded carrots and tarragon
fantastically perfumed, but on the palate the mintiness of the tarragon was just bit overwhelming. The carrots added a subtle yet welcome note. Maybe I just put too much tarragon in the bag but I don't think it's the best herb to use with short ribs

Rib #2 - shallots and shredded carrots
much better, in fact my favorite of the four. the shallots deepened the flavors and added complexity.

Rib #3 - soy sauce
a bit dull. The soy , if anything, detracts.

Rib #4 - soy sauce, shredded carrots, shallot
very good, but once again I'd say the soy sauce detracts a bit. surprising but good to know.


Instinct tells me carrots, shallots and a *little* bit of fresh thyme should be my next try.

Short ribs continue to be my favorite sous vide prep.

Article in the Washington Post 09-22-2010 Food section at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/09/21/ST2010092103447.html about Sous Vide. You might have to register to read it.