Coffee Grinders

[Jenise]

Mine is plenty hot enough for tea, and I guess I would disagree with the tea purists that all teas require boiling water, if that's what they believe. Mine makes perfect tea where I've got it set right now at just below boiling.

Mine is plenty hot enough for tea, and I guess I would disagree with the tea purists that all teas require boiling water, if that's what they believe. Mine makes perfect tea where I've got it set right now at just below boiling.

I post these to point them out, not as advocate:

General temperature considerations

http://www.arborteas.com/teablog/tea-preparation/brewing-tea-with-a-countertop-hot-water-dispenser-pros-and-cons/


Delightful Chinese descriptions of bubbles: (I'm a 'rope of pearls' man myself)

http://www.facebook.com/notes/mighty-leaf-tea/boiling-water-for-tea-bubbles-and-steam/176701457124

[Jenise]

Ah, so they don't suggest boiling for all teas. I quite agree with their take overall: greens and oolongs favor less heat, and black teas usually taste like cereal unless the water's boiling. However, my morning black tea (believe it or not, one of my favorites is a Canadian supermarket staple, Red Rose), once I upped the temp on my tap--and at first I was disappointed, had to take the water to the microwave for an additional minute if making black tea--is not just okay but perfect. I bought a pretty good unit.

[

It's hard to beat that for getting a body out of bed, but aromatics aside I have to say that the double-hulled steel french press mugs one can buy at Starbucks does not lack for convenience, especially if one has an instant hot water tap (that little gizmo may be the #1 best thing about my new kitchen.)

I could see that as working out very nicely!

Ours wore out and just bought one a couple of weeks ago, got a Baratza Maestro for a hundred bucks as a 'buy it now' from eBay and like it a lot. It has good reviews BTW.

That's the one I mentioned above having decided on before getting scared off by the reviews on Amazon. You haven't had any clogging problems, apparently?

Nope, no probs at all.

The blade style of grinder doesn't offer much control, except in how long you keep them going, and they give a coarse through medium fine result, but that's fine with me - it works for perc, drip and espresso.

If you want a really fine grind for Turkish or something, then a burr grinder is the only way to get that.

Braun blade grinders are ubiquitous and cheap - $25 a decade or so, and the motors seem to never overheat even when doing a lot of coffee very finely. You don't get yuppie bragging rights with them, but that's fine by me, I'll settle for cheap and effective.

I have one client that has a commerical $10K coffee machine in his house, along wth a 6 burner commercial stove and a walk in cooler. Different strokes.

I've been using a Capresso conical burr grinder for the last several (6-7?) years that works very well. It grinds at a slower rate to avoid overheating the grounds. It also has a nice weight to it that keeps it from moving across the counter while running.

I also have a Capresso Conical burr grinder which works great! 16 different grinds, easy to clean and paid around $50...only negative is it's a tad loud.

Drew

[David M. Bueker]

Braun blade grinders are ubiquitous and cheap - $25 a decade or so, and the motors seem to never overheat even when doing a lot of coffee very finely. You don't get yuppie bragging rights with them, but that's fine by me, I'll settle for cheap and effective.

That's exactly what I have. I know realize that I have no idea what a burr grinder is...

Braun blade grinders are ubiquitous and cheap - $25 a decade or so, and the motors seem to never overheat even when doing a lot of coffee very finely. You don't get yuppie bragging rights with them, but that's fine by me, I'll settle for cheap and effective.

That's exactly what I have. I know realize that I have no idea what a burr grinder is...

A burr grinder is something that gives you more adjustment, bragging rights when out with friends at the yuppie coffee shop, but also wears out and is usually more expensive.

I would liken the two options to owning a regular or an electric toothbrush. Not sur the bells, whistles, cost and complexity are warranted by the limited added benefits.

But then I am a stick shift kind of guy - don't need them fancy paddle shifters!

[David M. Bueker]

But then I am a stick shift kind of guy - don't need them fancy paddle shifters!

Given that the wife & I are still considering Formula 1 driving school as a 2010 vacation idea, I will take those paddle shifters every time.

[Jenise]

How FUN, David.

@Bill: so you've pushed me over the edge. I'm going to go grind beans in my little Braun and in my soon-to-be-ex burr grinder, and see if I can detect a taste difference. If I can't, no need to make the big investment.

But then I am a stick shift kind of guy - don't need them fancy paddle shifters!

Given that the wife & I are still considering Formula 1 driving school as a 2010 vacation idea, I will take those paddle shifters every time.

I've been itching to do something like that myself. Unfortunately, cost is prohibitive at the moment. One of these days, though....

@Bill: so you've pushed me over the edge. I'm going to go grind beans in my little Braun and in my soon-to-be-ex burr grinder, and see if I can detect a taste difference. If I can't, no need to make the big investment.

Jenise,

It'll be interesting to hear of the results of your comparison, but, for me, a single shot experiment tells me little about how to get the best cup of coffee. It may be my limited functionality in the early morning hours, but, in varying all the variables (water temperature, grinding method, particular coffee, brewing method) I've never found the 'method' that makes the 'perfect' cup of coffee every time ('course such thing might exist with those instruments that cost thousands of dollars, but I have no interest). The more relevant test for me is what makes a more dependably delicious cup of coffee over repeated trials. When it comes to grinding, there's no doubt in my mind that my rather lower-end Capresso Infinity burr grinder way outperforms the Braun blade grinders I used previously. Have I had cups of coffee from the blade grinder that were more to my liking than some cups I've made using my burr mill grinder? Sure. I've also had amazing cups of coffee visiting folks made from frozen preground beans that were as or more delicious than the freshly purchased freshly ground beans I make for myself every morning. It's just about finding a system that works consistently for you at making a good cup of coffee--and with the least financial investment (as coffee geeks can spend pretty ridiculous amounts of money).

I will type, however, that I strongly disagree with Bill's contention that the difference between burr mill and blade grinders is mainly about yuppie bragging rights. Blade grinders do not provide a uniform grind--they continue to grind all of the beans in the hopper until you stop it--overgrinding some, undergrinding others, and having some being just right. So the 'average' might be right, but the variation (especially with some of the coffee being too finely ground) introduces significant risk of overextracted flavors entering your coffee. Burr mill grinders produce a uniform grind--once the bean has been chopped up and passed through the mill, it doesn't reenter--it falls into the storage container. Much more uniform grind and much less risk of overextracted flavors. Whether one tastes the difference to the degree that it justifies the extra investment is a matter of personal preference. For me it was worth it, but I also think that blade grinders are a pain in the behind to use and make a mess. Different strokes . . .

I will type, however, that I strongly disagree with Bill's contention that the difference between burr mill and blade grinders is mainly about yuppie bragging rights. Blade grinders do not provide a uniform grind--they continue to grind all of the beans in the hopper until you stop it--overgrinding some, undergrinding others, and having some being just right. So the 'average' might be right, but the variation (especially with some of the coffee being too finely ground) introduces significant risk of overextracted flavors entering your coffee. Burr mill grinders produce a uniform grind--once the bean has been chopped up and passed through the mill, it doesn't reenter--it falls into the storage container. Much more uniform grind and much less risk of overextracted flavors. Whether one tastes the difference to the degree that it justifies the extra investment is a matter of personal preference. For me it was worth it, but I also think that blade grinders are a pain in the behind to use and make a mess. Different strokes . . .

Keith, you are obviously correct about uniformity of grain size with the burr mill as opposed to a blade grinder that keeps on hacking at whatever is in there.

I disagree about mess and fuss using the blade grinders, though. A simple buzz-dump is neither a fuss, nor given even average coordination, a mess. If anyone is missing the filter I suggest doing the job with eyes open....

I have no doubt at all that a burr grinder does a better job. I do doubt that it makes enough of a difference to warrant the price difference you usually see between the two systems.

I disagree about mess and fuss using the blade grinders, though. A simple buzz-dump is neither a fuss, nor given even average coordination, a mess. If anyone is missing the filter I suggest doing the job with eyes open....

But that's what I'm drinking the coffee for!!!

[Jenise]

I have no doubt at all that a burr grinder does a better job. I do doubt that it makes enough of a difference to warrant the price difference you usually see between the two systems.

Difference to whom, though? For myself, every bit of flavor is worth fighting for. If I can tell a difference, then I must have the better thing--no bragging rights involved at all. I won't be happy with less, and small differences can matter enormously with me and add to my overall satisfaction with life. Within limits, of course. Maybe it's just a matter of priority? I'm willing to spend on my kitchen what you spend on pens.

Difference to whom, though? For myself, every bit of flavor is worth fighting for. If I can tell a difference, then I must have the better thing--no bragging rights involved at all. I won't be happy with less, and small differences can matter enormously with me and add to my overall satisfaction with life. Within limits, of course. Maybe it's just a matter of priority? I'm willing to spend on my kitchen what you spend on pens.

Or cars, more like, from what I hear about your kitchen!

It is quite possible that given a reproducible period of buzzing with a blade grinder, you end up with a mixture of sizes that makes a brew that pleases you, and that having a completely uniform grind might not be an improvement on that. Or it might also be that the difference between the two was under your personal descrimination horizon, and you wouldn't perceive any significant difference. We'll only know after you do a controlled experiment (use Bob as a control subject).

We could as easily have this discussion about tea, bags vs. loose, steeping time, water temperature.....and we'd probably get inconclusive results as we may here. I don't disagree that intellectually speaking, uniform grain size sounds like it should be a good thing. I just don't know how it will relate to drink quality. I'll stay tuned....

As an unrepentant romantic, I am, however, sure that my Cuban cigars, rolled on the thigh of some dusky maiden in a factory in Cuba, taste better than the machine made version!

[Jenise]

It is quite possible that given a reproducible period of buzzing with a blade grinder, you end up with a mixture of sizes that makes a brew that pleases you, and that having a completely uniform grind might not be an improvement on that. Or it might also be that the difference between the two was under your personal descrimination horizon, and you wouldn't perceive any significant difference. We'll only know after you do a controlled experiment (use Bob as a control subject).

We could as easily have this discussion about tea

We sure could. And uniformity is not all it's cracked up to be: I not only like but highly prize a lack of uniformity in grain size of pepper and natural salts. I often season as condiment, loving that push-pull of flavors that results in each bite being just a little bit different. In coffee it could be a different issue, though. Keith mentioning extract has my attention. Anyway, I'll do a test to find out: I do not love all coffee equally and am not easily satisified, definitely not in the 'bad coffee's better than no coffee at all' camp. Anything but. So if in fact, if I can my old blade grinder (haven't fully moved back in yet), I'll try an experiment this afternoon on the hunky, coffee-loving tile setter who is working downstairs as I type. But first, lunch!

Re the difference in price between the blade & burr grinders, trying to put it in perspective in today's spending...would be the difference in buying a nice and not particularly exceptional bottle of wine and a perfectly acceptable drinkable bottle from Trader Joe's E.G. Presumably the satisfaction quotient of having a burr grinder will last longer than that good bottle of wine!

Presumably the satisfaction quotient of having a burr grinder will last longer than that good bottle of wine!

Or, contrariwise, the satisfaction of not giving in to yuppie avarice and buying a toy that may not be any better would be a source of satisfaction...

[Jenise]

Or, contrariwise, the satisfaction of not giving in to yuppie avarice and buying a toy that may not be any better would be a source of satisfaction...

But why suppose it's avarice? There are countless testimonials around attesting to the superior results of burr grinding. I never compared them, we moved up to burr grinding when we received one as a gift. But I was happy to get it, and I would almost have one all over again just because it's so much less messy than the little blade grinders even if I couldn't detect a difference in the coffee. Along the same lines, I once bought a coffee maker that had a flat-bottomed filter in it to replace a dead machine that had a cone or V shaped filter, and couldn't believe the difference in complexity. The flat job went back. Small things DO make large differences.

Really, to someone who goes to the trouble of buying better, fresher, just-roasted beans because of that difference and who grinds fresh for each pot for THAT difference, it sounds pretty plausible to me that different/better grinding could make a material difference. Along the same lines, I once bought a coffee maker that had a flat-bottomed filter in it to replace a dead machine that had a cone or V shaped filter, and couldn't believe the difference in complexity. The flat job went back. Small things DO make large differences and Shel's comparison to wine is apt. I've been accused of something not unlike your "yuppie avarice" for preferring the wines I drink to Two Buck Chuck--by people who think they all taste alike and can't imagine the person who would not prefer the full-bodied, residual sugar of a brand new 2BC anyway.

I've been accused of something not unlike your "yuppie avarice" for preferring the wines I drink to Two Buck Chuck--by people who think they all taste alike and can't imagine the person who would not prefer the full-bodied, residual sugar of a brand new 2BC anyway.

Different strokes for different folks . . . some folks like blowing cash on wine, some on coffee accessories, some on collectible ceramics. And just because some people think it's not 'worth it', they really can only evaluate whether it's 'worth it for themselves'. De gustibus non est disputandum . . .

Jenise, I'll defer to your palate on a comparison.

Let us know if there is a difference and if it is significant.

PS - I am playing Devil's advocate as I haven't done this comparison mys elf, so I'll look forward to actual test results. If Jenise says there is a huge difference, I may e shopping for a new coffee mill!

When I say it MIGHT be yuppie self deception, I have lots of precedent - wine scores, hifi interconnects etc.

[Jenise]

When I say it MIGHT be yuppie self deception, I have lots of precedent - wine scores, hifi interconnects etc.

Well, there is definitely the kind of person who has to have the best of everything because that makes them King whether they can use it or not--but come on, you know that's not who you're talking to in this forum. I'll definitely compare and report back.