A restaurant owner writes a list of rules for servers

I was quite surprised that Landmarc (in Tribeca) actually followed the rule. I must mark up their "height" in my thinking.

Sounds good!

"David Creighton"
if they aren't actually working on you at the time they are looking where they are going and not even their other customers.

This is a bit of a stretch, David, and very unfair to U.S. waiters. I have had excellent service in upscale restaurants and dives alike, and extremely bad service in both as well. I have been attended to without being fawned over and dismissed without so much as eye contact. My worst experience was in a (highly recommended) restaurant in wine country in Sonoma, California. It was shortly after the "usual" lunch hour and there were two couples in the restaurant. The waiter was very engaged with the other couple while Carl and I had to ask for everything from menus to forks and finally our bill. I left his tip on the back of the bill. It simply stated: "tip: everyone is deserving of attention. Our tip is a reflection of your service." We didn't leave a dime on the table. OTH, I have had a $10 sandwich in a small, nondescript cafe, and left $15 for the waiter(s). It all depends on the staff

Re David Creighton waving his arms/standinding up to get service
I agree with robert Reynolds, too broad a condemnation of service in U.S. restos.
But it does bring up an interesting question as I see you're in Ann Arbor, and so wonder if service or the lack of it, could vary by geographical location.
In my area, noted for servers being there between acting gigs, can't say that it was ever necessary to wave my arms or stand up to get attention in any of the places we frequent that range from dive bars to upscale temples of dining.
Should add that I've experienced lots more indifferent, shading to rude, service in France and the rest of Europe than ever found in the U.S.
Maybe I've just been lucky, so will enjoy it.

in france, every server is paid a living wage without relying on tips. in addition to being trained correctly to know the signs of customer needs, they know that the success of the restaurant as a whole is partly their responsibility...

Although due to the laws of supply and demand, when they work in restaurants where the stream of customers seems endless they have no incentive to be attentive. Post office syndrome at its finest!

I think there is a disconnect for many employees (in various industries) in this regard. As long as there are still widgets to make, bread to bake, etc.... Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't get the sense that many people are thankful for the jobs they have, and I think it's only going to get worse with this new generation coming through who have been given ribbons and trophys despite not winning (so that no one feels bad.) Not looking forward to having these people work for me. When did competition become a bad thing?

but I don't get the sense that many people are thankful for the jobs they have, and I think it's only going to get worse with this new generation coming through who have been given ribbons and trophys despite not winning (so that no one feels bad.)

I think people are gaining renewed appreciation for the value of being employed with every passing day.

Carrie, I think you brought up a very valid point, an entire generation who have received 'empty' awards for their fragile 'self-esteem', where no competition existed and where they will expect the rest of their lives to be that way.
A great scenario for some serious consequences down the road a bit...

that in france every staff person looks out for every customer.

That is very true. When I was in Alsace with my family a few yrs ago, a female server stood in a corner and watched every table. I was really impressed.
Here they go out the back for a smoke.

yes, bob; i forgot to mention that there often is a 'watch goose' if that is the proper comparison. 40 years ago we had a restaurant in ann arbor where it was said that all a customer had to do was 'think' about a cigarette and the owner had a match lit. but that was unusual as the retelling of the story over the years indicates.

[Jenise]

That is very true. When I was in Alsace with my family a few yrs ago, a female server stood in a corner and watched every table. I was really impressed.

Must offer that one of the most impressive services I've ever experienced was at famed Chez Panisse in Berkeley. A myriad of things went wrong: a wine was corked (we ordered two different wines by the glass), there was a hair on one of our appetizer pizzas and a entree lamb braised in zinfandel was served barely lukewarm. I remember commenting afterwards that it was as if there had been a displeasure censor in the table because we had no sooner commented on any of these problems than a server, and not even our own server just the closest available server, swooped down on our table to correct the problem. It was as if they were clairvoyant! And even the sommelier, who didn't agree that my zinfandel was corked, brought a new fresh bottle to the table, opened it and poured a glass to compare to the one I complained of. After the comparison, he agreed and left the new bottle for us to finish, compliments of the house. And that wasn't all, in the end they comped our entire meal. And that was not because we fussed--they were on each problem so fast, that a sense of dissatisfaction never had the chance to set in. They just did it because it was the right thing to do. (And we left a huge tip, which was also the right thing to do.)

I have had a lot of great service in great restaurants when everything went perfectly, but I've never been so impressed as the time when everything did not.

Jenise,

THAT'S the sign of a great restaurant.

Every restaurant, I'm sure, has the story of its Meal from Hell, where everything that can go wrong, does. The great restaurants make sure that they make it good to the customer when that happens.

-Paul W.

Hi,
Hope you don't mind me coming in a bit late on this.

Living in France, my perspective is, of course, very different. However I would say that I have noticed a very significant difference between the way in which we were treated eating out in the States on the visits we've made, and the way we're treated here.

I want to pick up on what David Creighton said. Firstly, sadly that's not true in every restaurant here, though one notices the exception, so the rule is still that of good service. Secondly, the one enormous difference (and it has nothing to do with gratuities - don't get me started on that!) between waiters and waitresses here, and in the USA, is that here, good service is the result of good training. You virtually don't get a job as a waiter or waitress if you've not got your BEP or BAC professionnel (Certificate of professional education and certificate of higher (professional) education respectively), which you've studied in a Lycée Hôtelière (hotel school, sort like the CIA). And there. of course the training consists of drumming FAR more than 50 rules into the trainees. They learn how to serve a whole flat fish correctly (take the fillets off the bone without breaking them up and arranging them attractively on a plate with their garnish) for example.

Waiting here is a career, not a way of earning a sou while waiting for a bit part as a film extra, or to pay your way through college. So people take a pride on doing a worthwhile job professionally. Sometimes that leads to a kind of "professional gloss" where the motions are gone through, but you know perfectly well they don't give a damn, but mostly, they do, as David said, CARE that you should enjoy your experience, and understand that if you are happy with the meal you are likely to come back and the place will thrive. And they understand that what THEY do is quite as important as the quality of the food and wine and the state of the decor.

I'll get off my hobby horse with a final rant. God save me from the 18 year old who comes prancing up before I've even sat down and says "My name's bubblehead and I'm your waitperson for the evening" and then proceeds to regale me with her life story, why she's doing the job and so on. "Frankly, my dear I don't give a damn!!" I want to be offered an apéritif, to be given the menu and to be given the time to peruse it, to decide on what I'm going to eat, and for her to do her flippin job perfectly, but apart from that leave me the heck ALONE! No doubts she's avery nice person, and possibly if I met her in a bar (without my wife) I would hang on her every word, but I'm there to eat with or without such companions as I might have with me, and she is there to serve. The relationship is professional and that's how I want it. Why anybody tips more (if they do) when gushed at entirely escapes me.

There... I DO feel better.

Amen.

Ian (in France):

That's a fine looking hobby horse you're riding, and feel free to keep riding and ranting!

Totally agree with everything you said.

However, I will point out that, sadly, the standards in France---and here I'm largely speaking of the Ile de France...Paris...are slipping.

My last couple of visits there I couldn't help but notice that the wait service was much less professional and accomplished than I was used to. I spoke to several people on my last visit, and they echoed my feelings, and told me that the waitstaff standards were changing, that even the professional waiters were not as good as they used to be, and did not have that professional attitude in quite the same way they used to, and that the younger set now coming in were not as well trained...and that, indeed, the profession itself was not attracting people as it used to, as a lifelong profession.

Even in some of the highly regarded restaurants there was slipshod, inattentive and irregular service, I'm sad to say. Not just the professional gloss you mentioned, but downright poor service standards.

Mind you, the standards and practices are still much higher than what one expects in the US, and when you get away from Paris, things remain much more traditional, and much more reliable. But still, things are changing.

Ian (in France):

That's a fine looking hobby horse you're riding, and feel free to keep riding and ranting!

Totally agree with everything you said.

However, I will point out that, sadly, the standards in France---and here I'm largely speaking of the Ile de France...Paris...are slipping.

I lived in London for nearly 50 odd years, I've had big cities, so have only been to Paris once in the 20 years we've lived in France and then we've stayed with and eaten with friends where the service was perfect However, from what I hear there's little doubt you're absolutely right. However I live in "La France Profonde" and things are very different here. In a sense I was trying to keep to generalities, which is why I didn't mention Paris (and to a lesser extent some of the other big cities too), not my own experiences here, where I know just about every restaurant owner within a 20 mile radius!!

Funnily enough, even if it can be hard to specify exactly what goes into "good service", I know I can recognise it almost instantly.

If I had to try to encapsulate it, it would be that the waiter or waitress always does exactly the right thing for each diner/table at the right moment. S/he is there a microsecond before you need him/her, and never there when you don't. S/he is capable if understanding and recognising that different people want to served in different ways. A couple on a first date (especially if they aren't used to eating out) will not want to be treated in the same way as a group of old friends, all experienced diners. And so on.

I've eaten at two Gordon Ramsey places in London, one was his own 3 star place and the other the Connaught (iirc). In both of these, we were overwhelmed by waiters trying to look after us all at the same time and before we'd even seated ourselves properly. I VERY nearly told them to bugger off and leave us alone for 5 minutes, while we collected our wits, but I wasn't the host, and in any case, they were probably only following instructions so it would be unfair to blame them for doing what they were told. From the deep similarity, it seems to me that's his "house style" of serving. I don't like it.

But then, I'm a crusty old grump and no doubt many people will love being "looked after so carefully."

Mind you, the standards and practices are still much higher than what one expects in the US, and when you get away from Paris, things remain much more traditional, and much more reliable. But still, things are changing.

Hoke, Hi....

As things are changing so are we. Some will call that "the aging process", some call it being "a crusty old grump" but I wonder how much we of the grumps society have made the past better in our memories than it actually was. Perhaps part of it (albeit only a part) was captured by Simone Signoret in the title of her autobiography: "Nostalgia Isn't What It Used to Be"

Best
Rogov

Hi Daniel

Mind you, the standards and practices are still much higher than what one expects in the US, and when you get away from Paris, things remain much more traditional, and much more reliable. But still, things are changing.

Hoke, Hi....

As things are changing so are we. Some will call that "the aging process", some call it being "a crusty old grump" but I wonder how much we of the grumps society have made the past better in our memories than it actually was.

Don't think so. I know everyone tends to have selective memory, but between being submerged under over attentive staff in those two Ramsay places, we also went to Bra in Laguiole, and subsequently to other decent places - and less elevated restaurants as well. The best service was chez Bra, and was near to what I'd define as perfect. So it's not a question of looking at the past with rose tinted glasses. Things DO change. When we came out here 20 years ago, there was one supermarket in our local "big town" and one "primeur" where you could buy vegetables. In general the vegetables that were to be found were poor limp specimens. Nowadays, if the "primeur" has gone, we have three supermarkets and good vegetables most of the time. No, sorry fellow Curmudgeon I don't think it's that.

Yes, whilst history says I'm more likely to be ignored for long periods, than be swamped with staff (partly the type of restaurants I go to as well), I do recognise the annoyance when the staff start to intrude on your meal, conversations etc.

One instance - a friend of mine was having a business lunch (there were 3 of them there) at the Grand Hotel in Brighton many years ago. They were talking work, but also mixed in with some social stuff. At one point someone mentioned 'vegetarians' and within seconds a waiter was at the table with the vegetarian menu for them. Clearly he was listening in on their conversation, which whilst in a public place, was disconcerting and potentially annoying.

On the other hand though, there are times when I'm very happy to engage in a degree of banter with the staff and indeed I'd very much rather they be themselves than a subservient automaton. Clearly I have double standards!

regards

Ian

My gold standard of service, the sine qua non, is easy: Pierre Gagnaire in Paris.

Superb, polished, attentive but never obtrusive, and totally seamless; the kind of service that does not call attention to itself: it just is. It is, in its way, almost as pleasant as the meal itself, like the music that accompanies a ballet.

But, curmudgeonly and grumpy or not (and I'll happily concede the Ancient of Days title to the curmudgeonly Methus...er, Rogov) I don't believe the general lowering of the service standards in Paris is my comparing it to days of yore; it's more the changing of the culture and the nature of the people. That's what the restaurateurs are telling me as well.

I also happily agree with Ian H. that outside of the Profonde, service is much more like the old standards (adjusted to the country versions as it may be). In its way, the excellent service and gracious responsiveness and attentiveness of the manager/owner and staff at La Mere Germain in Villefranche-sur Mer, or the hearty and matter-of-fact motherliness of Le Maison Blanche in St. Romain in the Chalonnaise, or the friendly and affable but impressively efficient folks at Hotel les Fleurs in Gigondas, is a testimonial to the standards of the country of France, and perhaps more so than that of the grand city itself.