Wine-food matching: when does it go too far?

BTW, strawberries with freshly ground black pepper and Champagne = bliss

Ever try dipping the berries in fresh sour cream first, then the pepper? Divine.

Now you're talkin'.

Jenise, if you like grilled pineapple (and who wouldn't?), you should try a sprinkle of smoked red savina on it after it's grilled.

There is no wine match, alas.

Came to this late, so I'll just respond to Jenise's post that started the thread.

Applause to the Chef for trying to approach the issue in a way that seemed right to him. Sorry he didn't pull it off (to you, at least, and your comments sound right on to me).

There are obviously many ways to approach the food and wine thing, and I don't know that planning a campaign of attack would consistently result in anything better than what the hell, but I'd say two things:

1) I think the Chef was using only one of the two 'standard' approaches in his effort at food pairing, that of similarity. He was trying to create food that was to his mind similar to the flavors in the wine. He forgot the approach or concept of contrast, which I think is equally important. Too much similarity, and you don't get sufficient variation between the food and the wine, and everything just sort of melds together into sameness.

Consider the BDN and the paired food: he was obviously playing up to the sweetness in the wine, and extending that same sweetness to the food. What he might have conceived as seamlessness I would conceive of as too damned much sweetness and not enough zip (too much sugar and fruit). Dull, dull, dull. At that point something peppery (contrast) might have brought the pairing alive.

Chef was using only half his palate.

2) The one thing most important that I learned from all those years with John Ash was what he kept repeating over and over and over about being a good chef: the conception of a dish is not necessarily the same thing as the execution of a dish. Well, he didn't say it like that; what he actually said was that every chef should be aware enough to understand that he can effect any dish right up until the moment of completion, and that what goes out to the customer is far more important than the original concept the Chef wanted to create. Or in other words, any Chef has the ability to manipulate the flavor combinations on a plate to make sure that it works with a wine.

So it really doesn't matter whether you start with the wine and then go to the food, or vice versa, as long as you understand that if your idea didn't work, or wasn't quite right, or could be made better----do so! And all you really need is the basic six elements (and you thought there were only four) of taste to achieve that final delivery.

Chef was using only half his palate..

And he was also being a bit too specific.

As much as I might find certain key flavor elements in wine, I have not found that using that specific ingredient in a matched dish necessarily works well. It's more about the general balance, as you said.

[David M. Bueker]

Thinking about this a little more I do like to match the food and wine a little bit, but only a little. If I know the wine (have tasted it previously) then I like to pick up on some little nuance of the aromas/flavors in the dish, but just a nuance. I never go for mimicing the dominant flavor.

Thinking about this a little more I do like to match the food and wine a little bit, but only a little. If I know the wine (have tasted it previously) then I like to pick up on some little nuance of the aromas/flavors in the dish, but just a nuance. I never go for mimicing the dominant flavor.

I agree that trying to match flavours in the wine to the food is worng headed and may just result in one blah course that tastes the same.

I like to find elements in the food that complement, not mirror the wine. For instance, I am a big fan of North African spices - cumin, cinnamon, anise - with some red wines. The wines have none of these elements themselves, but they work marvelously well off the spices.

Right. If only similarities counted in food matching, how would we ever get our Port and Stilton?

F

Right. If only similarities counted in food matching, how would we ever get our Port and Stilton?

F

And what the heck would you drink with anchoiade? Although I do recall one Morrocan red....

Well, I am a bit of a fanatic about matching food and wine, but to me things like texture and structure are at least as important as flavors in constructing a proper match. The reason I am so fanatic about the food/wine matching thing is because of the potential payoff when food and wine complement one another and both taste better as a result. The magic of that experience is akin to smelling a fully mature Grand Cru Burgundy (and about as rare in my experience).

Mark Lipton

Well, I am a bit of a fanatic about matching food and wine, but to me things like texture and structure are at least as important as flavors in constructing a proper match.

So you should have the answer to that question that has been bothering us all - what is the perfect wine to match the texture of the Ruffles potato chip? Gotta be a wine with ridges, but would you choose Ridge, Canoe Ridge, Eagle Ridge, Laurel Ridge, Napa Ridge, Pine Ridge, Rabbit Ridge, Raptor Ridge, or would you be an innovator and opt for some McDowell Valley Vineyards Syrah Potato Patch Vineyard?

looking back over that menu, i have to say that if this is supposed to be a good culinary program, then we americans should be worried - very worried - about the food we will be eating in our restaurnants in the future. neither of the dishes you mention at the beginning bear any relation to decent edible food. there are places in the inferno for people who make dishes such as the veal in particular. and the students will think this is the real stuff when its an aberation. glad i'm headed to france next month where there are still SOME people who know good food.

[Jenise]

Jenise, if you like grilled pineapple (and who wouldn't?), you should try a sprinkle of smoked red savina on it after it's grilled.

There is no wine match, alas.

I will! Sounds fantastic. Btw, I put some red savina on my baked potato the other night; been on a hot kick and it was heavenly. What a fantastic pepper--thank you SO much.

Well, I am a bit of a fanatic about matching food and wine, but to me things like texture and structure are at least as important as flavors in constructing a proper match.

So you should have the answer to that question that has been bothering us all - what is the perfect wine to match the texture of the Ruffles potato chip? Gotta be a wine with ridges, but would you choose Ridge, Canoe Ridge, Eagle Ridge, Laurel Ridge, Napa Ridge, Pine Ridge, Rabbit Ridge, Raptor Ridge, or would you be an innovator and opt for some McDowell Valley Vineyards Syrah Potato Patch Vineyard?

In this case, I think that you have to go with contrast and pair it with Arbor Mist Raspberry Merlot, preferably the newly disgorged edition.

Mark Lipton

In this case, I think that you have to go with contrast and pair it with Arbor Mist Raspberry Merlot, preferably the newly disgorged edition.

Ah, I believe that's the one brought back from the hunt by the hyena mother.