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RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Celia » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:05 am

Really? Cool! That sounds far more impressive than "school canteen style".. :)
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Larry Greenly » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:48 pm

celia wrote:Thank you! I hope Bobby finds it useful. :) I'm waiting for Stuart to post his recipe so I can see how the master does it.

Cynthia pointed out in chat today that you can also make pizza dough in the Kitchenaid - I didn't even think of that! I guess it would be easier, but I blew up my last mixer trying to make dough (brioche) and haven't been game to try anything like that in the new one.


I always make my pizza dough in my Kitchenaid, so I can't imagine you blowing up one unless you went over the dough limit (7 cups for the K5). What happened?
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Linda R. (NC) » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:29 pm

OK, I have to jump in here now. I make pizza fairly regularly and make my own dough from scratch, too. Celia, I converted your recipe to my US measurements and see that you use about 1/2 cup more flour for 4 pizzas than I do for one. I would guess maybe you make smaller or individual pizzas.

Here is the approximate recipe I use - makes one pizza.

1 3/4 cups bread flour
6 oz. water
1/4 to 1/2 tsp. yeast
1/4 to 1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 TB olive oil

Note: I go short on the flour when measuring to allow for what I work into it in kneading. I don't measure the yeast, salt or olive oil - just eyeball it.

I mix all together and knead until it comes together and works easily (maybe 5 min.) Then place in oiled bowl and let rise 2-3 hours on stove top under the light from the microwave which is above the stove. This increases 2 to 2 1/2 times in size.

I roll it out on floured parchment paper, dock entire crust with a fork and top. I slide parchment and all onto the stone and bake for about 10 min. I preheat the oven to 500 and bake at around 450.

The stone is about 15 inches.
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Celia » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:55 pm

Larry Greenly wrote:I always make my pizza dough in my Kitchenaid, so I can't imagine you blowing up one unless you went over the dough limit (7 cups for the K5). What happened?


Larry, it wasn't a Kitchenaid, it was a 40 year old Kenwood. And it wasn't pizza dough, it was brioche, and it was quite stiff, and the old girl just packed it in. I'm curious - do you make most of your bread in the mixer, or by hand? And do you notice a difference? Years ago I used to have a breadmaker, but I didn't like the results - I found every loaf turned out the same. Mind you, that's very different from a mixer, which simply mixes and kneads the dough, and I've noticed lots of artisan bakers use them rather than hand knead.

Linda, my stones are only 13" - I just went and measured them. :) And I don't add any flour at all when kneading, only a little when rolling out. Yummy looking pizza! Pete always slides the parchment out as soon as he can - he argues it cooks the base better - though I'm not convinced it makes a difference...
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Linda R. (NC) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:03 pm

Celia, when I converted your flour into cups, the conversion program I used was apparently quite generic. It was followed (should have scrolled down) by a chart that indicates 500 grams of flour would be 4 cups. I read your post on recipes that annoy you. I feel your pain only in reverse. I am probably one of the few who never got the hang of metric measures, hence the need for conversion assistance. During our discussion on measures this morning after reading your post, my husband found the following website: http://www.traditionaloven.com. It has a wealth of information including this page on making pizza dough: http://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/pizza-az.html

With regard to weighing your ingredients versus measuring, I agree that it is the more precise way.
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Larry Greenly » Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:21 pm

celia wrote:
Larry Greenly wrote:I always make my pizza dough in my Kitchenaid, so I can't imagine you blowing up one unless you went over the dough limit (7 cups for the K5). What happened?


Larry, it wasn't a Kitchenaid, it was a 40 year old Kenwood. And it wasn't pizza dough, it was brioche, and it was quite stiff, and the old girl just packed it in. I'm curious - do you make most of your bread in the mixer, or by hand? And do you notice a difference? Years ago I used to have a breadmaker, but I didn't like the results - I found every loaf turned out the same. Mind you, that's very different from a mixer, which simply mixes and kneads the dough, and I've noticed lots of artisan bakers use them rather than hand knead.

Linda, my stones are only 13" - I just went and measured them. :) And I don't add any flour at all when kneading, only a little when rolling out. Yummy looking pizza! Pete always slides the parchment out as soon as he can - he argues it cooks the base better - though I'm not convinced it makes a difference...


It was fun to hand knead the first time, but I've always used the mixer since--although sometimes I'll finish with a minute or so of hand kneading. A mixer is pretty much needed with those bread recipes that contain a lot of water and are sticky until the gluten develops. I can't imagine any taste difference between the two methods of kneading. I won't go near a breadmaker; I find their products rather uninteresting. And I get riled when I hand someone a baguette or a boule that I've made and they ask if I have a breadmaker.
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Celia » Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:21 pm

Larry, I couldn't agree more on the breadmaker. That's why we finally got rid of it, because all the bread it turned out was exactly the same. I actually hand knead all my bread - right up to 85% hydration doughs. The french kneading method (I included a video clip above) is fantastic for really wet doughs, as is letting the dough autolyze - I've found that with the wetter doughs, a light initial knead following by regular folding over the first rise produces a great result. Not sure how I'd go with some of the wetter pizza doughs though - some of them looked positively sloppy, and I can understand why they have to be made in a machine!

Linda, I think we actually share the same pain. :) I have scales that switch from metric to imperial, and use that functionality all the time, as I'm probably baking 50% from American cookbooks. Thanks for the link to the pizza site - I'll check it out!
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by ChefJCarey » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:18 am

celia wrote:I think your recipe is more traditional than mine - I've read elsewhere that a starter is usually added to improve the flavour of the pizza dough. Interestingly, you and Stuart both seem to like a puffier base - we're usually aiming for a super thin base which mimics the one we get at our favourite pizza restaurant. I wonder how they make it in Naples? Though it's probably as wide and varied as it is everywhere else.. :)


Nope, there's not a great variation in Naples, Celia. I think I've posted this before here. You must have missed it.

Pizza Napoletana
MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE COMMUNICATION
Summary: Proposal of recognition of the Specialita' Traditionale Garantita “Pizza Napoletana"
Date: 24-5-2004
Declaration:
The Ministry of Agricultural received the petition to register the classification of Specialita' Traditionale Garantita for the product “Pizza Napoletana,” as presented in the following Articles 1-13 of the regulation (EEC) number 2082/92, from the association Genuine Pizza Napoletana and from the association Pizza Napoletana, both headquarter in Naples, in order to create this product classification, and to distinguish it clearly from other similar products and to protect the consumer. We verify that the petition of production has been requested in the Italian language and the creation of the product obtained “according to the Italian tradition,” and will proceed with the publication of the text of the to methods of production.
Department of Agricultural Food Product Quality and Consumer Protection
Division QTC III
via XX September n. 20
00187 Rome
Thirty days from the date of publication in the official Gazette of the Italian Republic, the above-mentioned petition will be proposed to the European Commission.
THE METHOD OF PRODUCTION OF THE SPECIALITA' TRADITIONALE GARANTITA “PIZZA NAPOLETANA”
Article 1. Name of the product
The classification of “Pizza Napoletana STG,” following the Italian tradition and with the wording exclusively in the Italian language, is reserved to the product made using ovens and from businesses dedicated to the production of Pizza, defined as Pizzerias, and destined for the final consumer, with specific features specified as follows:
The Method
“Pizza Napoletana” is a food preparation made from a base of risen dough and cooked in a wood fire oven. The product is characterized both by the ingredient, means and technologies of production. In the designation “Pizza Napoletana” we define the following names: “Pizza Napoletana Marinara”, “Pizza Napoletana Margherita Extra” and “ Pizza Napoletana Margherita “.
Article 2. Ingredients
The products that provide the base for “Pizza Napoletana” include wheat flour type “00,” with the addition of flour type “0,” yeast, natural water, peeled tomatoes and/or fresh cherry tomatoes, marine salt, and extra virgin olive oil.
Other added ingredients can include, garlic and oregano for “Pizza Napoletana Marinara,” buffalo milk mozzarella, fresh basil and fresh tomatoes for “Pizza Napoletana Margherita Extra,” and mozzarella STG or fior di latte Appennino and fresh basil for “Pizza Napoletana Margherita.”
Article 3. Method of Production.
The preparation of “Pizza Napoletana” includes exclusively the following method of production used in a continuous cycle.
1) Preparation of the dough:
Blend flour, water, salt and yeast. Pour a liter of water into a mixer, dissolve between the 50 and the 55g of salt, add 10% of the total amount of flour, and then add 3g of hydrated yeast. Start the mixer, and then gradually add 1800 g of flour until you achievement of the desired dough consistency. Combining the ingredients should take 10 minutes.
Next, mix the dough at low speed for 20 minutes, until the dough forms a single ball. To obtain the optimal dough consistency, it is very important to control the quantity of water, such that the flour is able to absorb it all. The mixture should be sticky, soft and elastic to the touch.
The characteristic “merceologiche” of the flour used for “Pizza Napoletana” allow it to absorb from 50 to 55% of its weight in water to reach the optimal “point of pasta.” The resulting dough can be individualized by the abilities of the individual pizzaiolo.
The preparation of the dough in the mixer should be done without causing the dough to become warm.
2) Dough Rising:
First phase: remove the dough from the mixer, and place it on a surface in the pizzeria where it can be left to rest for 2 hours, covered from a damp cloth. In this manner the dough's surface cannot become harden, nor can it form a crust from the evaporation of the moisture released from the dough. The dough is left for the 2 hour rising in the form of a ball, which must be made by the pizzaiolo exclusively by hand.
With the aid of a spatula, cut from the mixture into smaller portions, which are then shaped onto a ball. For “Pizza Napoletana,” the dough balls must weigh between the 180 and the 250 g.
Second phase of the dough rising: Once the individual dough balls are formed, they are left in “rising boxes” for a second rising, which lasts from 4 to 6 hours. By controlling storage temperature, these dough balls can then be used at any time within the following 6 hours.
3) Forming the pizza base:
Following the second rising, the dough ball can be removed from the rising box using a spatula and placed on the cooking of the pizzeria, on a light layer of flour to keep the dough from sticking to the work bench. With a motion from the center to the outside, and with the pressure of the fingers of both the hands on the dough ball, which is turned over and around multiple times, the pizzaiolo forms a disk of dough that to the center the thickness is not more than 0.3 cm (.11 inch), and a border that is not greater than 1-2 cm (.4-.8 inch), forming a frame, or crust.
No other type of preparation is acceptable for the preparation of the “Pizza Napoletana STG." Specifically excluded is the use of a rolling pin and mechanical presses.
Features of the flour:
W 220-380
P/L .50-.70
G 22
Assorbimento 55-62
Stabilita' 4-12
Caduta E10 max 60
Falling number 300-400
Dry glutine 9.5-11%
Protein 11-12.5%
Features of the Dough:
Fermentation temperature 25C
Final PH 5.87
TA 0.14
Density 0.79g/cc (+34%)
4) Method: Assembling a Pizza.
Pizza Napoletana Marinara:
Using a spoon place 80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes in to the center of the pizza base, then using a spiraling motion, cover the entire surface of the base with the sauce;
Using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;
In the same manner, scatter a pinch of oregano;
Chop a thin slice of peeled garlic, and add it to the tomato;
Using an oil canister and a spiraling motion starting from the center and moving out, pour 4-5g of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
Pizza Napoletana Margherita Extra:
Using a spoon place 60-80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes, or chopped fresh cherry tomatoes in to the center of the pizza base, then using a spiraling motion, cover the entire surface of the base with the sauce;
Using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread 80-100g of sliced Mozzarella di bufola DOP so that it forms a connect lath pattern on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread on the fresh basil leaves;
Using an oil canister and a spiraling motion starting from the center and moving out, pour 4-5g of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
Pizza Napoletana Margherita:
Using a spoon place 60-80g of pressed, peeled tomatoes, or chopped fresh cherry tomatoes in to the center of the pizza base, then using a spiraling motion, cover the entire surface of the base with the sauce;
Using a spiraling motion, add salt on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread 80-100g of sliced Mozzarella STG, or fior di latte Appennino to that it forms a connect lath pattern on the surface of the tomato sauce;
Spread on the fresh basil leaves;
Using an oil canister and a spiraling motion starting from the center and moving out, pour 4-5g of Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
5) Cooking:
Using a wood or aluminum peel, and a little flour, the pizzaiolo transfers, the pizza using a rotary movement and a quick shake, on to the cooking surface of the oven without disturbing the prepared pizza. The cooking of the “Pizza Napoletana STG” must be done exclusively in a wood fire oven which has reached the cooking temperature of 485C, (905F), which is essential to cook the Pizza Napoletana.
The pizzaiolo should monitor the cooking of the pizza by lifting up its edge. Using a metal peel, the pizzaiolo rotates the pizza, changing the edge that is facing the fire, and taking care to always replace the pizza on the same spot on the cooking surface, to ensure that the pizza does not burn because it is exposed to different temperatures.
It is important that the pizza is cooked in uniform manner across its entire circumference.
At the conclusion of the cooking, the pizzaiolo removes the pizza from the oven with a metallic peel, and places it on a flat, dry work surface.
Cooking time should not surpass 60-90 seconds.
After the cooking, the pizza should have the following characteristics:
The tomato should have lost all excess water, and should be dense and consistent;
The mozzarella di bufola DOP or the mozzarella STG should be melted on the surface of the pizza;
The basil, garlic and the oregano will develop an intense aroma, and will appear brown, but not burned.
The following temperature guidelines should be followed:
Cooking surface temperature: 485C about.
Oven dome temperature: 430C about.
Cooking time: 60-90 seconds.
Temperature reached by the dough: 60-65C.
Temperature reached by the tomatoes: 75-80C.
Temperature reached by the oil: 75-85C.
Temperature reached from the mozzarella: 65-7C.
Article 4. Traditional character
The pizza, as represented by a base of dough on which you can place food and which functions as a plate, has been present in various forms in the excavations of almost every known ancient civilization. The term “pizza” was first used in Italy in 997 in the Codex cajetanus of Gaeta.
The true “Pizza Napoletana,” as it has come to be know in Naples, a base of dough that is covered with tomatoes was born after a specific historical moment: the discovery of the America, in 1492 by Cristoforo Colombo. It was the Genoan navigator that carried the tomato plant to Europe. In 1596 the tomato plant was exported to Naples from the Spain, where it was first used as an ornamental. The first historical documentation of the use of tomatoes in the cooking is found in “Gallant Cooking” (Naples - And. Raimondiane 1733) by Vincenzo Corrado, the chef to Prince Emanuele of Francavilla. The same Corrado, in a following treaty on the foods most commonly used in Naples, declares that the tomato was used for preparation of pizza and macaroni, helping create two products for both the good fortune of Naples and the history of cooking. We can take these as the first official appearance of the “Pizza Napoletana,” a base of dough covered with tomato.
The first pizzerias, without doubt, were born at Naples and until the middle the 1900s; pizza was an exclusive product of Naples and of its Pizzerias. Since 1700 there were shops in Naples called “pizzerias.” The fame of the Naples pizzeria began to grow when the king of Naples, Ferdinando of Bourbon, broke with the norm of the times, by entering the more renowned pizzerias to experience the traditional dish. From that moment, the “pizzeria” was transformed into a restaurant exclusively for the preparation of the “pizza”.
The pizzas most popular and famous in Naples are the “Marinara,” created in 1734, and the “Margherita,” created in 1796-1810 as an offering to the Queen of Italy during her visit to Naples in 1889. The colors of pizza (tomato, mozzarella and Basil) remember the flag of the Italy.
Over time, Pizzerias have sprung up all around Italy and abroad, but each of these still finds its roots in the surroundings of Naples. And they are all bound with the term “Neapolitan pizzeria,” in that they all recall in some manner their connection with Naples, where for almost 300 years this product has remained unchanged.
In May 1984, virtually all the old Napoletano Pizzaiuoli came together to draw up the method for the Pizza Napoletano, which was signed and officially recorded by the notary Antonio Carannante of Naples.
Article 5. Features of the final product
a. Description of the product:
“Pizza Napoletana” STG is presented as a product from the oven, round in shape, with a variable diameter than it should not surpass 35 cm, (14 inches), with the edge raised (crust), and with the central covered by the ingredients. The central of the pizza base will be 0.3 cm, (.11 inch thick), with crust 1-2 cm (.4-.8 inch). The pizza should be soft, elastic, and easily foldable into “booklet”.
b. Appearance: “Pizza Napoletana” STG is characterized by a raised crust of golden color “g a definite product from oven, soft to the touch and to the mouth. The ingredients framed in the center of the pizza by the red one of the tomato are perfectly blended with the olive oil.
Marinara, the green of the oregano and the white one of the garlic;
Pizza Margherita, the white one of the mozzarella browned all over, and the green one of the basil in leaves darkened from cooking.
The consistency should be soft, elastic, and bendable. The product is presented soft to the slice, with the characteristic flavors, a crust that presents the flavors of well-prepared and baked bread, the mixed flavors of the tomatoes, the aromas of the of the oregano, the garlic and the basil, and the flavors of the cooked mozzarella. The pizza, as it emerges from the oven, delivers the characteristic aroma “g perfumed and fragrant.
c. Chemical Analysis
Pizza Napoletana STG tipo Marinara
ANALISI DI PRODOTTO CARATTERISTICHE NUTRIZIONALI
g/100 g Kcal/100 g Kjoule/100

Carbiodrati 25.48 102 432.4
Proteine 4.04 16.16 68.5
Lipidi 3.48 31.31 132.8
Valore energetico/100 g 149.47 633.79

Pizza napoletana STG tipo Margherita
ANALISI DI PRODOTTO CARATTERISTICHE NUTRIZIONALI
g/100 g Kcal/100 g Kjoule/100

Carbiodrati 19.31 77.26 327.58
Proteine 8.05 32.21 136.6
Lipidi 7.39 66.56 282.21
Valore energetico/100 g 176.03 746.39

Pizza napoletana STG tipo Margherita extra
ANALISI DI PRODOTTO CARATTERISTICHE NUTRIZIONALI
g/100 g Kcal/100 g Kjoule/100

Carbiodrati 19.31 77.24 327.5
Proteine 8.32 35.28 149.58
Lipidi 8.39 75.52 320.2
Valore energetico/100 g 188.04 797.28
Article 6. Storage
The Pizza Napoletana should be consumed immediately, straight out of the oven, at the pizzeria. If the pizza were removed from the pizzeria to be eaten later, it would not longer carry the mark of a true “Pizza Napoletana.”
Article 7. Signage and Brand
The pizzerias that are certified to produce true “Pizza Napoletana” STG can display the logo described below:
The logo contains a profile of the gulf of Naples with Mount Vesuvius in red, along with a pizza containing the essential ingredient. A green border encircles the graphic. Under the graphic the text states Pizza (in green) Neapolitan (in red), where the acronym STG appears in white in the second bar of the letter N.
Article 8. Monitoring
Pizzerias wanting certification for the STG “Pizza Napoletana” will be checked for the following standards: the correct methods and phases of mixture, rising and preparing the dough, as described above; monitoring closely the critical points (HACCP); verifying the usage of the ingredients and the methods outlined above; verifying the right storage and use ingredients (HACCP); checking that the pizzeria is following the structure outlined in the previous articles.
14 of the regulation (EEC) n. 2082/92.
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Stuart Yaniger » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:30 am

Well, no, there's not much variation in STG-compliant, but if one goes to various pizzerias in Naples without limiting to STG, one can find quite a bit of variation. However, it is all relatively thin crust, and I never saw anyone use a rolling pin. Most often, the tomato layer is crushed tomatoes; I've seen the garlic and salt added separately, as in the STG, but just as often, it's already in the sauce.

My method would not pass STG standards, but I think that they're too limiting, and that one can get an equally authentic-tasting result using other methods. Like AOC, the STG standard has some merit (allowing the consumer to get a known, consistent, and excellent product), but the limitations also make it much harder for the pizza to achieve true greatness.

My own keys (and I modestly claim to make an excellent pizza) are:
1. Tipo Fino 00 flour with plenty of kneading
2. Highest quality canned whole San Marzano tomatoes, except for the 4 weeks that local tomatoes actually sing
3. No rolling, just hand spreading
4. Low moisture mozzarella- I love fresh bufala, but it tends to make the pizza soggy
5. Top quality EV olive oil
6. Garlic lightly precooked in the oil
7. Hottest oven possible with the longest practical preheat
8. Stone, of course
9. Minimum of added salt
10. Fresh ground black pepper in the sauce- not too much, just a few grinds
11. Sauce precooked for a few minutes
12. NO GODDAM PINEAPPLE
13. Cheese grated with a little Provolone added (not the smoked crap)

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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Dave R » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:08 pm

*C*,

What do you think about the proposed ban on topless sun bathing in Australia? Be honest. We are all friends here. :wink:
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by ChefJCarey » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:51 pm

Nothing to disagree with there, Stuart. I would eat that pizza.

(Sometimes I put a little white pepper in my dough).
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Stuart Yaniger » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:54 pm

Interesting idea!
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Celia » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:23 pm

Nope, there's not a great variation in Naples, Celia. I think I've posted this before here. You must have missed it.


I did! Thanks for reposting it!

Stuart, that isn't enough - you've promised me step by step photos! :) (Tonight - it's pizza night in Montana, right?)
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Celia » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:26 pm

Dave R wrote:*C*,

What do you think about the proposed ban on topless sun bathing in Australia? Be honest. We are all friends here. :wink:


Don't really care either way, Dave. It's so common here now that no-one really looks twice. Is it a common practice in the States?
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Stuart Yaniger » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:28 pm

Saturday is pizza night!

(actually, I have one rising at the moment, but we're trying to make dinner and keep a hyper-enthusiastic 8 year old under control))
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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Robert Reynolds » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:41 pm

celia wrote:
Dave R wrote:*C*,

What do you think about the proposed ban on topless sun bathing in Australia? Be honest. We are all friends here. :wink:


Don't really care either way, Dave. It's so common here now that no-one really looks twice. Is it a common practice in the States?

Not in most places, although I wouldn't complain a bit!
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Dave R

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Re: RCP: Pizza Dough for BobH, with lots of pics

by Dave R » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:39 am

celia wrote:
Dave R wrote:*C*,

What do you think about the proposed ban on topless sun bathing in Australia? Be honest. We are all friends here. :wink:


Don't really care either way, Dave. It's so common here now that no-one really looks twice. Is it a common practice in the States?


There are a ton of beaches around where I live but they are all family beaches and I'm sure a woman would get a ticket if she took her top off. There are probably topless beaches in California but that is kind of like another planet compared to the rest of the U.S.

I'm all for topless beaches. The only thing I would ban would be men wearing Speedos. That's just not right. :)
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
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