Poll: Fighting foods

Chili moreso than pizza or bagels, and I'd expect bbq to rank pretty close. After all, who's more likely to be drunk and carrying, someone eating a bagel or someone eatin' chili?

While all the points raised about chili and BBQ are good, they are limited to specific swaths of the US whereas pizza is a universal debate that spans the globe.

While all the points raised about chili and BBQ are good, they are limited to specific swaths of the US whereas pizza is a universal debate that spans the globe.

Nope, sorry, don't agree with that. The "pizza" over which all these wars are being fought, is an American invention, including crust thickness and toppings, some of which might even be considered as bizarre!
"International" pizza is the result of the larger chains expanding to other markets and promoting and selling the "American" pizza pie.
I could be convinced to the contrary if you could link us to "pizza war" articles originating in Europe or Asia and reflecting the thoughts, desires and passions of locals You might find this difficult to do as I think they just don't give a damn.

Quite the opposite. The definitions of "pizza" in Italy is a hot issue.

See, for example, these articles:

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jul/21/food/fo-pizza21
http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/
http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_na ... _spec.html

The last was reposted here a few weeks ago (thanks, Joseph!).

BBQ and chili are usually contentious subjects across the country. I also participate on a local food board and the two big ones are sausages and steaks. The Poles insist Polish sausages are the best while the Germans insist Bratwurst are the best and then the Italians bust in and claim everyone else is wrong and that Italian sausages are the best. The locals also get pretty worked up over their steaks. Which cut is best, which restaurant has the best steak, which butcher sells the best steak, etc. Oh, and how could I forget what many around here consider the true fourth food group…BEER. If you insult a man’s preferred beer you had better be ready for trouble.

The Poles insist Polish sausages are the best while the Germans insist Bratwurst are the best and then the Italians bust in and claim everyone else is wrong and that Italian sausages are the best. The locals also get pretty worked up over their steaks. Which cut is best, which restaurant has the best steak, which butcher sells the best steak, etc. Oh, and how could I forget what many around here consider the true fourth food group…BEER. If you insult a man’s preferred beer you had better be ready for trouble.

I'm sure I'd make myself unpopular on that board.

Clearly, German sausages are the least interesting and blandest, Italian the most interesting and flavourful, and the Polish are good for an occasional bout of slumming in a garlic sort of way.

The best cut of steak is a ribeye.

All beer sucks compared to wine.

And single malt is far superior to blends, which are suitable only for washing the dust from one's throat after a long trip, before sitting down to a more serious dram.

Did I forget anyone?

Quite the opposite. The definitions of "pizza" in Italy is a hot issue.

See, for example, these articles:

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jul/21/food/fo-pizza21
http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/
http://www.fornobravo.com/vera_pizza_na ... _spec.html
Well geez, sorry to be contentious, but nothing in any of those links abrogates what I stated re "this" thread, pizza in this case, and how it's viewed internationally.
The last was reposted here a few weeks ago (thanks, Joseph!).

In fact, there is only one article, the other 2 links having to do with the Italian pizza association.
And in an attempt to cut through the BS, the bottom line re the Italian pizzas is strictly to do with money, jumping on a bandwagon moving at speed and attempting to capitalize 'late' on an existing very profitable situation originating in the U.S.
Note: as per the posted LA Times article written in 2004, this is about the "certified" Neapolitan pizza, from an association only formed in 1984, and that only in 2004, did the Ministry of Agriculture in Italy, "officially recognize" said Neapolitan pizza as "unique".
Further, there are only 12 "certified" Neapolitan pizza joints in the U.S and a total of 200 around the world, a number that would hardly make a dent in Domino's, Pizza Hut etc.
And still waiting for written proof that 'pizza wars' are a hot-button issue in the rest of the world.
Granted that the word 'pizza' and maybe even the concept for the pizza pie, originated in Italy, but it wasn't until the trip across the pond that pizza became as popular as it is and that it's very popularity engendered so much passion that battles are ongoing as to which is the best pizza geographically, plus shape, thickness, water quality, toppings, etc. etc.
Anyway, this is a fun topic to debate and hope you're finding it that way!

I'm sure I'd make myself unpopular on that board.

Clearly, German sausages are the least interesting and blandest, Italian the most interesting and flavourful, and the Polish are good for an occasional bout of slumming in a garlic sort of way.

The best cut of steak is a ribeye.

All beer sucks compared to wine.

And single malt is far superior to blends, which are suitable only for washing the dust from one's throat after a long trip, before sitting down to a more serious dram.

Did I forget anyone?

Yes, you did not mention anything about the bitter vegan woman on the board that does not drink but I forgot to mention her preferences.

I agree with all of your conclusions with the minor exception of beer. A really good micro-brew is better than a 2 Buck Chuck or a Beringer White Zin. But that is just my opinion.

Other. Because people seem to think that chili has beans in it when it doesn't. If it has beans in it then it's not chili!

rwj

Pizza and barbecue are high on the list (although I don't see the fights over pizza as most of the types people fight over are great) but I'd put chili at #1.

Just watch this:


Hey Cowboy! Chili without beans is NOT CHILI!!!!!!

All right, I just read the thread after I voted and posted. I have now purchased 4 boxes of 12-gauge buckshot and a ticket to Sacramento so that I can blow another hole in your sorry ass!

rwj

Here's an interesting article from the Straight Dope column on the history of pizza, and LOL it doesn't conflict with anything I wrote!
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpizza.html

Instead let's define modern pizza as the tasty conjunction of flat bread, tomato sauce, and cheese. Most food historians point to Naples as the area of origin, and to Napoletana, the pizza of Naples, as the archetype of this type of pizza.

From that Straight Dope article. (I'm also a Cecil Adams fan)

QED

Now I'll give you that one sees bland, adulterated versions of this, and even more disgusting regionalisms than pineapple, but I will not grant that when some Turk in Hamburg puts boiled sausage, cabbage, and prunes on a crust, calls it Pizza alla Baden, and the Germans lap it up that it is in any way actually... pizza.

Pizza and barbecue are high on the list (although I don't see the fights over pizza as most of the types people fight over are great) but I'd put chili at #1.

Just watch this:


Hey Cowboy! Chili without beans is NOT CHILI!!!!!!

All right, I just read the thread after I voted and posted. I have now purchased 4 boxes of 12-gauge buckshot and a ticket to Sacramento so that I can blow another hole in your sorry ass!

rwj

See what I mean?

First post - be kind!

Chili is a big one here in Louisville. I grew up thinking that all chili had noodles. My dad was from Northern KY - right next to Cincinnati - but he didn't fix his chili Cincy style. He just mixed noodles in with the chili.

MissChele

Re the "QED"
C'mon Stuart, if you're gonna excerpt portions of the article to make your case, then let's make it a fair QED and quote the preceding paragraph from that Straight Dope column. It reads:
We need to start with some definitions. Shall we confine our attention to American pizza now found throughout the world? If so, no problem--it was invented in America in the 1950s. That's probably not the answer you were looking for, although the New World did make possible pizza as we know it today.

Well, the statement you just quoted is a tautology: true of course, but disappointing from Cecil.

I would take "American pizza" in his piece to mean the same thing as "American cars": just as it's Ford and Chevy, it's Pizza Hut and Dominoes (sp?). Bad German pizza without an American branding isn't American pizza. The final part, about the New World, referred to tomatoes.

Let us also note that my quote used the phrase "modern pizza." Would you accept that "American pizza" defined as Cecil does (1950s) is "modern?" If so, you must then admit that since "modern" would include "American," the origins of all modern pizza, no matter how one would define "American," is... Naples.

Clearly, German sausages are the least interesting and blandest, Italian the most interesting and flavourful, and the Polish are good for an occasional bout of slumming in a garlic sort of way.

Bill, having grown up in proximity to a marvelous German butcher's shop (Saag's in Oakland, still extant) I am not willing to cede the point that German sausages are bland. The white Bockwurst from Saag's stays in my memory as a particularly tasty sausage.

The best cut of steak is a ribeye.

Agreed

All beer sucks compared to wine.

Depends on the beer and wine to me

And single malt is far superior to blends, which are suitable only for washing the dust from one's throat after a long trip, before sitting down to a more serious dram.

Is there anyone who actually disagrees with that statement? I'll drink Dewar's in a pinch, but even a fairly pedestrian single malt such as Glenfiddich is a big step up.

Did I forget anyone?

Sure, but do they matter?

Mark Lipton

Clearly, German sausages are the least interesting and blandest, Italian the most interesting and flavourful, and the Polish are good for an occasional bout of slumming in a garlic sort of way.

Bill, having grown up in proximity to a marvelous German butcher's shop (Saag's in Oakland, still extant) I am not willing to cede the point that German sausages are bland. The white Bockwurst from Saag's stays in my memory as a particularly tasty sausage.
Mark Lipton

I have a client that runs a very good German deli that makes some very good sausages, including a nice Weisswurst, but in general I like a bit more flavour in my sausage. Of course I understand that many ladies are partial to that incomparable sausage the schwanzstucker.....what was the butcher again, Brooks and Wilder....?

I acknowledge that pizza was made in Naples in the 20th century, which is not at all like "American" pizza that is sold & eaten worldwide.
Let's see if we can draw some comparisons...
Naples pizza is to American pizza as:
The Model T is to the Ferrare
The Wright Brothers plane at Kitty Hawk is to the F-18
The Kodak Box Brownie is to the latest digital Al Gore is to the "real" internet!
I guess any way you wanna slice up the pizza, the current standard for the world is found here.

I don't find many European tourists flocking here for Pizza Hut and Dominoes.

The world standard is still Italy. However you define "American pizza," it is still the Italian yardstick used to judge it.

As an individual thing, there are many excellent restaurants making creative and tasty pizzas in the new world, but as far as a standard is concerned, I guess I'd have to agree that Italy must be it.

I think you have to distinguish, though, between the product of a small North American restaurant with a skilled chef and maybe a wood fired oven, vis a vis the prepackaged cardboard crap you get in many of the mass outlets. That is like comparing a real sabayon (or zbaglione) with a packet produced Jello pudding mix!

One of the worst abominations ever created (well OK, most of them) relating to pizza was of course from the USA - stuffed crust pizza. What, our thick greasy crust doesn't stop your hearts fats enough? Well let's add an additional load of processed 'cheese food' inside the frickin' crust so you can get to the cardiac ward before Happy Hour starts.....

If you think that US 'pizza' (Canadian is often no better) is awful, or at least can be, look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMccGYqA0kY

I don't find many European tourists flocking here for Pizza Hut and Dominoes.

The world standard is still Italy. However you define "American pizza," it is still the Italian yardstick used to judge it.

Guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree
And I know, picky picky...but there is no Italian "yardstick"! "Meter stick" doesn't sound right, does it.

I don't find many European tourists flocking here for Pizza Hut and Dominoes.

Why should they? I've seen Pizza Huts in England, France and Israel. They come here for something different, Stuart.

Mark Lipton

That was my point and why I chose franchises I've seen from Canada to Kashmir.