Everything about food, from matching food and wine to recipes, techniques and trends.

Grilled Pizza Article

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

wrcstl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

881

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:20 pm

Location

St. Louis

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by wrcstl » Sat May 31, 2008 12:31 pm

ChefJCarey wrote:
Robert Reynolds wrote:
Fruit ain't got nothin' to do with pizza!

Yeah, well... Raw fish ain't got nuthin' to do with cooking either, yet otherwise sane and intelligent folks go gaga over sushi and sashimi, with all the associated risks of wormy parasites and bacteria, to say nuthin' about raw oysters. :roll: If it's on a pizza crust, as long as it tastes good, it's pizza.


No, it's not. It's something that tastes good to you or something you like - I have no problem with anyone's individual tastes. If you call a tomato a rock, it doesn't make it a rock.

If one piles a bunch of shit on top of a piece of flat bread and says "Voila, pizza!" it doesn't mean it is in fact a pizza.

Doesn't make that concoction any more a pizza than going to war by saying a country has weapons of mass destruction when you're lying through your goddamn teeth a legitimate construct.

This was a food developed at a very specific place and time with a very specific name and specific ingredients.

Here, I'm going to serve you some chocolate pudding, but I'm calling it split pea soup. Okay? That will be what we will call it from now on. Cool?

It is a real thing and not some American bastardized bullshit, corporate, mass produced, assembly line version of it.

Other than that we are incomplete agreement.


Chef Carey,
You are a published chef of great repute but I have to say when it comes to pizza you are way out in left field. The Pizza Napoletana Margherita is a great story and indeed is defined by the Italian government but it has its history in a story involving Queen Margherita that commisioned a pizza to be made for her and this one was selected. It was obviously well made but also included red (tomato sauce) white (cheese) and green (basil) which are the colors of the Italian flag. One could argue that it should be a Mexican pie. When making pizza for a large group I always start with Pizza Margherita because it has a great story, tastes great and defines "less as better" but to say this is the only pizza is very limiting. I am a disciple of Peter Reinhart that believes "more is better" and loosely defines this as the American Pie. Great pizza starts with a great dough, Napoletana is great but I use Neo-Napolitan (has a small amount of OO). After that let the world be your mushroom. By the way, using your definition you would not use mushrooms, or sausage, or grilled veggies and certainly not my signature pizza that uses raisins and pine nuts to balance the flavor of good Italian sausage. I personally have never used pineapple but can imagine a great flavor attack. "More is better" in my pizza world and it starts with great dough which carries great flavors of whatever you want to work with.
Walt
no avatar
User

ChefJCarey

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4508

Joined

Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Location

Noir Side of the Moon

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by ChefJCarey » Sat May 31, 2008 5:07 pm

I've learned to acclimate myself to left field over the years. Spend a lot of my time there. :wink:
Rex solutus est a legibus - NOT
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Sat May 31, 2008 7:27 pm

How's your arm? Need a cut-off man coming in from shortstop?

I half-agree, pizza does need to be those things to be DOCG pizza. But to just be "pizza," there's more latitude. It's just that "fruit" doesn't fall in there. Tell ya what, instead of you, Cynthia, and me annoying the benighted, let's put our heads together and do something affirmative- let's coin a new, snazzy name for the "baked dough disc with fruit and stuff on top." And maybe the benighted will be so taken with that shiny trinket, they'll leave the glorious name of "pizza" unsullied.
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

Cynthia Wenslow

Rank

Pizza Princess

Posts

5746

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:32 pm

Location

The Third Coast

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Cynthia Wenslow » Sat May 31, 2008 7:37 pm

What I find most amusing about this entire exchange is that I was just fooling around... riffing on the infamous Chili Post # 2. I have no stake in what anyone else puts on their pizza or what they call it.

Geez, you guys! :roll:
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Sat May 31, 2008 7:55 pm

I'm still waiting for a name suggestion, young lady. And keep it clean, OK?
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

ChefJCarey

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4508

Joined

Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Location

Noir Side of the Moon

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by ChefJCarey » Sat May 31, 2008 8:00 pm

I don't think she's turned on by being in bed with you and me, Stuart.
Rex solutus est a legibus - NOT
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Sat May 31, 2008 9:20 pm

Sorry, you'd be a fun guy to cook with but I just don't swing that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that... :mrgreen:
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

Dave R

Rank

On Time Out status

Posts

1924

Joined

Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Dave R » Sat May 31, 2008 9:36 pm

Can anyone tell us what is acceptable to put on a pizza?

Are anchovies still allowed?
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up cars and making 'em function.
no avatar
User

Cynthia Wenslow

Rank

Pizza Princess

Posts

5746

Joined

Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:32 pm

Location

The Third Coast

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Cynthia Wenslow » Sat May 31, 2008 9:45 pm

Dave R wrote:Are anchovies still allowed?


They were never allowed, Dave! :lol:
no avatar
User

Dave R

Rank

On Time Out status

Posts

1924

Joined

Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Dave R » Sat May 31, 2008 9:56 pm

Cynthia Wenslow wrote:
Dave R wrote:Are anchovies still allowed?


They were never allowed, Dave! :lol:


I love your style, Cynthia. Tough and honest. :D

But really, what is allowed on a pizza?
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up cars and making 'em function.
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Sat May 31, 2008 10:54 pm

Anything you'd find on something that would be called "pizza" in a small village pizzeria somewhere in rural Italy, the kind of place that does NOT have an English menu. Where the cheap wine in the pitcher is quite tasty and appropriate. And that means Italian ingredients. Pineapple is not an Italian ingredient. I could perhaps be persuaded that pear and Taleggio or gorgonzola dolce, topped with fresh arugula after baking, could be called a "pizza," if you want something with fruit. Anchovies? Sure. Yuck, but sure.

Tell ya what, let's agree that anything beyond Italian boundaries is henceforth called a "Pizziolatta." I don't think anyone has trademarked that yet, but maybe I should check...
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

ChefJCarey

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4508

Joined

Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Location

Noir Side of the Moon

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by ChefJCarey » Sat May 31, 2008 11:59 pm

Stuart Yaniger wrote:Sorry, you'd be a fun guy to cook with but I just don't swing that way. Not that there's anything wrong with that... :mrgreen:


Well, the only thing I could see wrong with it would be the fact that you were in that bed too.
Rex solutus est a legibus - NOT
no avatar
User

Dave R

Rank

On Time Out status

Posts

1924

Joined

Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Dave R » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:34 am

LOL, Stuart.

By your "reasoning", if I make Manhattan Clam Chowder; I should not call it Manhattan Clam Chowder because the ingredients are not from Manhattan?
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up cars and making 'em function.
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:55 am

I have no idea what Manhattan Clam Chowder is and don't get your analogy. Please do not pollute discussions of pizza (praise be upon it) with such atrocities.

Joseph, please do not make me get the bucket.
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

Duane J

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

131

Joined

Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:12 pm

Location

Paso Robles, CA

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Duane J » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:49 pm

I'm kind of surprised that no one said anything about tomatoes being a fruit.
A ship is safe in the harbor but that is not what ships were made for.
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:38 pm

Yes, but it's TOMATOES. That's biologically fruit, but culinarily sui generis.
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

ChefJCarey

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

4508

Joined

Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Location

Noir Side of the Moon

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by ChefJCarey » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:24 pm

Yes, there are two definitions - one says fruit, one says vegetable.
Rex solutus est a legibus - NOT
no avatar
User

Jeff Grossman

Rank

That 'pumpkin' guy

Posts

7375

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:56 am

Location

NYC

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Jeff Grossman » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:24 pm

The Indian people in my office just adore pizza topped with pineapple and jalapenos. Got just the right zip!

That said, I have a bit of sympathy for Stuart's delicate position. I think a pizza made with barbecue sauce, pepper jack, and shredded duck (yes, I've had one) is a very yummy thing but doesn't actually have anything to do with Pizza. I think my requirements for Pizza are: if it is the red kind, then there is tomato sauce and mozzerella cheese at the base; if it is of the white kind, then it has garlic, oil, herbs, and mozzerella cheese at the base; either kind may be topped with whatever you like.

I will note that clam pizza at Pepe's or Sally's does not have any cheese on it, so my 'white kind' definition is a bit too strict for its own good. So it goes.

As I am somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to food, I prefer the commonly-accepted toppings and topping mixes. (Stuart, you really should try the meat-lover's pizza... all those different sliced and ground-up bits of animals.. yum!) :twisted:
no avatar
User

wrcstl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

881

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:20 pm

Location

St. Louis

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by wrcstl » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:26 am

Jeff Grossman/NYC wrote:The Indian people in my office just adore pizza topped with pineapple and jalapenos. Got just the right zip!

That said, I have a bit of sympathy for Stuart's delicate position. I think a pizza made with barbecue sauce, pepper jack, and shredded duck (yes, I've had one) is a very yummy thing but doesn't actually have anything to do with Pizza. I think my requirements for Pizza are: if it is the red kind, then there is tomato sauce and mozzerella cheese at the base; if it is of the white kind, then it has garlic, oil, herbs, and mozzerella cheese at the base; either kind may be topped with whatever you like.

I will note that clam pizza at Pepe's or Sally's does not have any cheese on it, so my 'white kind' definition is a bit too strict for its own good. So it goes.

As I am somewhat of a traditionalist when it comes to food, I prefer the commonly-accepted toppings and topping mixes. (Stuart, you really should try the meat-lover's pizza... all those different sliced and ground-up bits of animals.. yum!) :twisted:


Jeff,
You should move away from the dark side and try some innovative ingredients. I only use tomato base when making Pizza Margharita or sometimes with grilled veggies. My standard pizza base is pesto. A really great flavor is a base of roasted red peppers (blend roasted red peppers, OO, balsamic vinegar and salt to taste) This is a fantastic base when using fresh goat cheese.
Walt
no avatar
User

Jeff Grossman

Rank

That 'pumpkin' guy

Posts

7375

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:56 am

Location

NYC

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Jeff Grossman » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:22 pm

Sounds yummy, Walt. (I just would call it a variant pizza....)
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:29 pm

So would I. That's all Italian.
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

Carrie L.

Rank

Golfball Gourmet

Posts

2476

Joined

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:12 am

Location

Extreme Southwest & Extreme Northeast

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Carrie L. » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:13 am

Okay, here's a curveball. There is fruit, but I would consider these to be all Italian ingredients...(From Todd English's Fig's restaurant)

Fig & Prosciutto...
Crisp rosemary crust with fig & balsamic jam, prosciutto & gorgonzola cheese

Thoughts? (I'm wincing...)
Hello. My name is Carrie, and I...I....still like oaked Chardonnay. (Please don't judge.)
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by Stuart Yaniger » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:41 am

No, that's a slider, not a curve. Remember what I said before about pears, Gorgonzola dolce, and arugula? It's Italian, so it can qualify for the "pizza" species. So can yours.
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
no avatar
User

wrcstl

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

881

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:20 pm

Location

St. Louis

Re: Grilled Pizza Article

by wrcstl » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:19 am

Stuart Yaniger wrote:No, that's a slider, not a curve. Remember what I said before about pears, Gorgonzola dolce, and arugula? It's Italian, so it can qualify for the "pizza" species. So can yours.


Stuart,
I have just awarded you the "most convoluted logic" award of the year which should make you proud. Let me get this straight; pizza is a purely Italian product and the only items to be used on the pizza has to be either grown or made in Italy. Could I get a clarrification on the acceptability of a few ingredients? Raisins? Bacon? Pine nuts? Grilled squash or red peppers? Carmelized onions? Pesto? Shrimp?
Walt
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign