Everything about food, from matching food and wine to recipes, techniques and trends.

Metal baking pans vs. silicone

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8494

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Metal baking pans vs. silicone

by Paul Winalski » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:05 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:Paul, I'm a bit uncomfortable with your use of the terms "conduct" and "insulate" here, as all materials are thermally conductive, just to vastly varying degrees. Stuart's point is key here: silicone has a far lower heat capacity than metal, and consequently transfers far less heat to the batter.

Geekily yours,
Mark Lipton


I was using the terms "conductor" and "insulator" in the layman's sense. Of course, scientifically speaking, we're dealing with differences in specific heat (the energy input to a substance required to raise its temperature by one degree), and with impedance, in the electromagnetic sense (of course we're dealing with infrared frequencies here).

Metals have both a very low specific heat (it takes very little energy input to raise their temperature), and very little resistance/impedance to transferring electromagnetic energy. This makes them what in layman's terms are called "conductors". In contrast, most ceramics, and silicone, have a higher specific heat and resistance/impedance, which makes them what in layman's terms are called "insulators". Muffins brown more readily in metal forms than in silicone because metal transfers the heat more readily than silicone does.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Larry Greenly

Rank

Resident Chile Head

Posts

7034

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:37 am

Location

Albuquerque, NM

Re: Metal baking pans vs. silicone

by Larry Greenly » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:11 am

Since we're nitpicking, how about making a baking pan out of aerogel? Technically it conducts heat, but most people would say it's an insulator. I saw some in person once--weird stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4338

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Metal baking pans vs. silicone

by Mark Lipton » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:34 pm

Paul Winalski wrote:
I was using the terms "conductor" and "insulator" in the layman's sense. Of course, scientifically speaking, we're dealing with differences in specific heat (the energy input to a substance required to raise its temperature by one degree), and with impedance, in the electromagnetic sense (of course we're dealing with infrared frequencies here).


Technically, the two factors that determine thermal conducivity of a given material are specific heat capacity (aka "specific heat") expressed as energy/(volume/weight/amount)/temperature and thermal diffusivity, expressed as area/time. Good thermal conductors usually have a fairly high specific heat capacity, but especially a high thermal diffusivity. For instance, most metals have a volumetric specific heat capacity that is close to that of water (i.e., high) but differ tremendously in thermal diffusivity: Cu, 11161E-8 m^2/s vs. stainless steel, 405E-8 m^2/s -- which is why copper cookware is superior to stainless steel. Asbestos actually has a higher heat capacity than those metals, but very low diffusivity. Glass, too, has a low diffusivity (43E-8) and most plastics even lower (8-13E-8), which they combine with lower heat capacities.

Metals have both a very low specific heat (it takes very little energy input to raise their temperature), and very little resistance/impedance to transferring electromagnetic energy. This makes them what in layman's terms are called "conductors". In contrast, most ceramics, and silicone, have a higher specific heat and resistance/impedance, which makes them what in layman's terms are called "insulators". Muffins brown more readily in metal forms than in silicone because metal transfers the heat more readily than silicone does.


Low impedance isn't too important (I think) because radiative transfer involves absorption of electomagnetic energy by the material in question, followed by conductive transfer to the batter. Ceramics and silicone don't have higher specific heats than metals, but have much lower thermal diffusivity coefficients. However, I do agree with your last sentence :P

Geekily yours,
Mark Lipton
no avatar
User

Mark Lipton

Rank

Oenochemist

Posts

4338

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Location

Indiana

Re: Metal baking pans vs. silicone

by Mark Lipton » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:36 pm

Larry Greenly wrote:Since we're nitpicking, how about making a baking pan out of aerogel? Technically it conducts heat, but most people would say it's an insulator. I saw some in person once--weird stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel


Yeah, aerogels are pretty crazy stuff and are about a poor a thermal conductor as you're likely to encounter.

Mark Lipton
no avatar
User

Jeff Grossman

Rank

That 'pumpkin' guy

Posts

7375

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:56 am

Location

NYC

Re: Metal baking pans vs. silicone

by Jeff Grossman » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:30 am

Thank you, Jenise, for sharing the results with us. I had been curious about silicone pans... but no more!
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: Metal baking pans vs. silicone

by Stuart Yaniger » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:24 am

Metals have both a very low specific heat


No, other way around. Besides the usual sources of thermal capacity, metals also have electronic specific heat because of the partially filled energy bands. That's the secret behind those meat defrosters- they're just a hunk of metal and their operation depends on them being able to absorb heat without much increase in temperature.

Sorry for the pedantry, I'm a geeky physical chemist.
"A clown is funny in the circus ring, but what would be the normal reaction to opening a door at midnight and finding the same clown standing there in the moonlight?" — Lon Chaney, Sr.
Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 19 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign