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POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

Do you like the "small plates" trend?

Yes, I love it
12
39%
I like it, but I find the menus confusing
0
No votes
It's interesting on occasion
16
52%
Not a fan, it seems foo-foo and affected
2
6%
Not a fan, I never feel like I get enough to eat
0
No votes
Hate it, there's nothing like a big, fat, juicy steak!
1
3%
Other (discuss)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 31
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Jenise

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Re: POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

by Jenise » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:59 pm

Eden B. wrote:So, why would I hate it? Well, maybe it's my metabolism I hate, but for starters, it's tough enough to have the will-power to do portion control when dining out, but the more dishes you have - the more foods you have - the harder it is to use moderation. When I do a typical appetizer-entree meal, I know I can have the appetizer and half the entree, wrapping the rest to go. Small bites means that plan flies out the window. Furthermore, I find that small bites makes wine pairing really challenging unless I'm dining as, at least, a party of 4 to be able to have multiple bottles open. Finally, again, while I do greatly enjoy the small plates experience, I feel a little guilty because I feel kindof ADD that I don't have the attention span for fewer courses.


Very interesting response, Eden, I hadn't thought about it that way. Agreed that the wine thing can be daunting, but at the same time every restaurant I've been in that does small plates has had an exceptional BTG list so ordering several glasses to accompany the variety of foods isn't hard. Or you do what Bob and I used to do when we'd fly into Seattle and go straight to Wild Ginger--at dinner, we'd order a good Spatlese and have seafood/Thai dishes. Then we'd come back the next day for lunch and order meat curries and a bottle of good zinfandel. Problem solved!
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Re: POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

by Jenise » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:02 pm

Ray Juskiewicz wrote:The second, and far more interesting way, is a chef-designed tasting menu that is meant to be eaten in order - usually three to five courses. To make it even better, a wine pairing (about 3 oz.) is often offered for each course. This allows me to be bold and try new things that I would never order an entire entree or bottle of.


I love that too. But they usually require the entire table to order the Chefs Menu--it's the pits to go to some really exciting restaurant with someone who won't order the TM, isn't it?
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Ray Juskiewicz

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Re: POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

by Ray Juskiewicz » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:05 pm

Jenise, you need to choose your dinner companions carefully. The last tasting menu I had was at the Bearfoot Bistro in Whistler, BC. It was great. Ever been there?
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Re: POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

by Jenise » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:36 pm

Ray, you DO get around. Yes, definitely been to the Bearfoot--GREAT place. In fact, speaking of small plates, Bob and I create our own small plates evening by what we call 'grazing'--we go from restaurant to restaurant and order bar snacks, which in better restaurants are theoretically small plates even if not called that--and that's how we dined at the Bearfoot. It was stop #1, and we had the best poutine I've ever had or imagined (the crispiest fries, real miracles of the fryolater world, drizzled with a superb demiglace and dusted with crumbled feta) accompanied by a suspriringly good Inniskillin zinfandel, all while sitting at that solid ice bar. No menu of any restaurant we visited later made me drool more. Great atmosphere, too.

Were you skiing?
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John Tomasso

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Re: POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

by John Tomasso » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:58 am

I'm undecided.
In a restaurant serving cuisine with which I'm less familiar, then I'm all for it. The more, different tastes I can have, the more satisfying the experience will be for me.
On the other hand, when in a more comfortable and traditional setting, I prefer the more structured meal.

The good thing is, we don't have to choose. We can select restaurants according to our mood.

I do think the small plate trend is a recipe for higher spending - some can get carried away when ordering. They may be small, but they're not cheap.
"I say: find cheap wines you like, and never underestimate their considerable charms." - David Rosengarten, "Taste"
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Ray Juskiewicz

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Re: POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

by Ray Juskiewicz » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:53 am

Jenise wrote:Were you skiing?


No, it was late summer. Labor Day weekend to be exact. I love golf and Whistler is a great place to play when the temperatures here are in the triple digits. Plus the rates up there are lower in the "between" seasons, though the Dollar to Loonie ratio is way out of whack. We paid only $100 per night at the Fairmont Chateau. My most vivid memory of the Bearfoot was the seafood. Salmon and tuna ceviche that tasted so fresh. And the service was really top drawer.

Another small plate memory I have of the NW is Cascadia in Seattle. I'm not sure those mini burgers they serve during happy hour in the bar count as fine cuisine, but top them with blue cheese or truffle butter and they sure taste like it. At about 6 PM there was a 30 minute wait for the bar but only one table occupied in the restaurant when we went there last spring. It was weird to be standing there in front of a dozen empty tables waiting for a seat.
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Max Hauser

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Re: POLL: "Shall I course that for you?"

by Max Hauser » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:58 pm

Jenise wrote:I wonder what your take is on why it's been such a hard sell on the American public? ... dinner out for casual Chinese with friends in Anchorage ... well educated persons, shocked us with their naivete about food. While Bob and I stared at the menu, John announced that Barb would have "her usual, sweet and sour pork" while he was having Mongolian Beef... / Not only did they not understand that Chinese food is to be shared. They were applying the typical American appetizer/entree/dessert mentality to Chinese food. neither was interested in cooking ... they didn't go out for higher end cuisine where they'd have been exposed to a wider variety of dining styles. It would be easy to understand how the rather low ratio of Maxes and Jenises to Johns and Barbs over the last few decades made any prior attempt to popularize small plates an uphill battle.

A few things here. There's always individual custom and taste. I've encountered this many ways. Long ago in a student house in the SF Bay area, a housemate's brother visited from the NYC area. He saw gringos using chopsticks in the many east-Asian restaurants and concluded (with the air of one who sees through things) it was an affectation, for appearance. (Presumably, an honest interpretation from within his personal reality.) I was amazed at this. Living in the area, even as a gringo, meant east-Asian restaurant meals, since so many restaurants were east-Asian. You got chopsticks automatically, you asked for forks. As a student especially, often dining with people from other countries including east Asia, the sooner you mastered the tiny skill of chopsticks, the more you ate. This is important when you're young, active, hungry, and short of cash. (The visitor listened with an I-know-better look.) Evidently things were different where he came from.

I believe it almost impossible to gauge the "ratio of Maxes and Jenises to Johns and Barbs" -- call it MJJBR, following technical practice -- without objective yardsticks, because (like the knowing brother from New York) we're prisoners of our particular experience. There's some support for your point in that most Chinese restaurants in my area routinely include a repertoire of offerings understood in their industry as "what white people order," not from myth but good business practice because, in fact, white people do order them, however loudly individual white people may insist to each other that they don't. (Those latter white people account for a higher than average talking-to-spending ratio, TSR.)

I like to encourage people never to order their favorite dishes at a new restaurant though -- try to learn the restaurant's favorites instead. (To insist "this dish is the measure of a ... restaurant" is to prefer their personal reality, just like that New Yorker's, over a larger reality that may differ.)

Some folk really like the same thing all the time. It's their call. Durgin-Park in Boston (traditionally the US's oldest restaurant, "Established before you were born") had a local fisherman or something who breakfasted there regularly on baked Indian Pudding with whipped cream for maybe 60 years. Then one day he asked for the menu, and after a terrible pause (while staff wondered if his health, and the universe, were in order) requested baked Indian Pudding with ice cream instead. I know a local Chinese restaurant with profound mapo doufu (or "ma po tofu,") a quintessential Szechwanese dish. One Chinese-émigré customer comes often, only for that dish, usually alone, and the servers brighten up because he leaves a huge tip many times the check.

Another thing: the from-the-ground-up US small-plates restaurants I mentioned upthread -- Just A Taste in Ithaca, Park Chow in SF -- thrived from the outset. They offered interesting food at decent prices and word spread.
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