Knife and fork vs. eating with your hands

[Jenise]

Yesterday, in a local cafe I observed two women eating croissant BLTs with a knife and fork. It has been awhile since I've seen this, and I watched while they struggled to get a little of everything in each bite, some of which, like the bacon, obviously didn't want to be captured. I ordered the exact same sandwich and happily ate mine with my hands, just as God intended.

It reminded me of a date I once had with an elegant man born and raised on the east coast. It was lunchtime and he took me to a very upscale place on Rodeo Drive just for their great hamburger--which he then ate with a knife and fork! Not wishing to be branded a heathen I followed suit, but unhappily so. For one, and it's a big ONE, when you hold food close to your face you get beaucoup aromas; a hamburger, dissected on a plate, simply can't taste as good.

I remember being in a pizza restaurant in Germany and being surprised that virtually everyone there ate their pizzas with knives and forks. In deference to obvious local custom we did likewise, but it felt strange.

It is, of course, proper etiquette to keep one's hands out of one's plate, I get that. But the rules that apply to fine dining don't neccessarily translate to casual fare, and IMO they shouldn't.

What say all of you?

[Robin Garr]

I say you're absolutely right, and would add fried chicken to the food that nature intended to be eaten with the hands.

"Fingers were made before forks." Old wisdom attributed in literary form to Jonathan Swift.

Yes, agree that sandwiches (including hamburgers and hot dogs served in a bun) are meant to be eaten with the hands. Ditto fried chicken. I will sometimes eat the first slice of pizza with knife and fork if it's just out of the oven and too hot to handle. I switch to eating slices by hand as soon as I can.

It is Indian custom to eat food with the right hand (the left is reserved for another purpose) and not with utensils.

-Paul W.

[David M. Bueker]

I have actually eaten at Indian and Indonesian places where eating with hands was the norm.

It is the norm at Ethiopian restaurants, too.

Agreed that "picnic fare" is food for hands.

Speaking of funny ways to consume pizza, Jay Miller used to hold the opinion that a slice should be eaten from the outside in... meaning, crust first, point last. (I think he enjoyed the struggle. )

But now the big question: sushi. I believe the Japanese generally pick it up with their hands, not chopsticks. Do you?

[Jenise]

Jeff, I'm just not good enough with chop sticks around anything rice and the rolls seem to unravel on me quickly. I'll start out trying then resort to fingers.

Speaking of chopsticks, has anyone figured out that Geoffrey Zakarian and Martha Stewart now eat with chopsticks? (When they're frequent guest judges on Chopped).

Speaking of funny ways to consume pizza, Jay Miller used to hold the opinion that a slice should be eaten from the outside in... meaning, crust first, point last. (I think he enjoyed the struggle. )

My goodness! What was the logic? And it seems difficult to manage with holding the slice, unless it's with a knife and fork.

Speaking of eating with hands, the NYC Democratic candidate has come under some silly Republican attacks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE9ucBe64W0

Zakarian usually uses a knife and fork because he does not want the food to drip on his suits. It is a joke with him and his friends on The Kitchen; they automatically provide him with a knife and fork while the rest eat with their hands. It is fun to watch.
I have an adorable 18-month-old great-granddaughter who eats very well with her hands; she fits right in. I never got the hang of chopsticks and always asked for a fork and knife. Eating with chopsticks seemed like torture to me. I have them at home for those who prefer to use them, and I have admired how adept they were at using them.

[Jenise]

My goodness! What was the logic?

Some people save their favorite bite for last. Maybe that's it?

But now the big question: sushi. I believe the Japanese generally pick it up with their hands, not chopsticks. Do you?

For maki, yes, but for anything else that is likely to come apart or that would leave a sauce or some such on your hands, chopsticks are appropriate.

[Jenise]

Here, from some site I found but corroborated by others, is the apparent rule in Japan, and I'm glad I looked it up because I've been a little nervous that I was not using proper ettiquette: Use chopsticks for sashimi and nigiri (always do), and eat rolls with your fingers (usually, but depends on the roll, as described earlier because of concerns about unravelling).

Whew!

Good to know.

What site is that? I know a fair number of Japanese folks, and all eat nigiri with hands. Chopsticks for sashimi always obviously.
I'll use chopsticks for nigiri if there is a crowded communal platter though.

[David M. Bueker]

My first business trip to China started with a jet lagged lunch where I was provided chopsticks and roasted peanuts (shelled). It was a cruel test.

I can be quite left-brained leaning sometimes. The way I process this question is that "everyone eats with their hands". It's just that sometimes those hands hold utensils in the process of feeding oneself. I think the same way about windows. Every one of them has a view (if you are blessed with the sense of sight). So the statement ''a room with a view" has never held the same thrill/meaning for me as it does for some others. (There is a view of something in every room.) This discovery came to me when I was in my early 20s. My best friend was apartment hunting and she was all in her feelings about needing to have a "view of the lake". She eventually found what she was looking for, but I wouldn't have lived there. It was a source of tension between us because I couldn't appreciate her sense of aesthetic in this one area, and she couldn't understand why I couldn't see it! But, I am a "when in Rome" kind person. I eat the way the natives around me eat, and if it feels right to me! The most incensed I have ever been is when a staff member told me at a banquet once that I was buttering my roll incorrectly. I was told to tear off a small corner and butter only the small piece I was going to put into my mouth. WTF!!

[Jenise]

What site is that? I know a fair number of Japanese folks, and all eat nigiri with hands. Chopsticks for sashimi always obviously.
I'll use chopsticks for nigiri if there is a crowded communal platter though.

It was called something like TravelJapan. I looked at several, and to be fair also saw two that said you can eat everything with your hands and a dozen that simply repeated what the other sites said word for word, but I got a sense that the more conservative approach might be the most correct since we're talking etiquette vs. just what many people do.

The most incensed I have ever been is when a staff member told me at a banquet once that I was buttering my roll incorrectly. I was told to tear off a small corner and butter only the small piece I was going to put into my mouth. WTF!!

That is way, way OTT. I think someone was purposely messing with you.

The most-opinionated service we've ever received was at a hole-in-the-wall Italian place in Greenwich Village, long ago. It was downstairs from a fairly inconspicuous doorway, just a few rooms, none very large, candle-lit, a great date place. Pumpkin ordered lobster ravioli, one of his favorites. The waiter brought the plates, offered grated cheese to me, and turned to leave. Pumpkin pipes up to ask for cheese and the waiter, as if talking to a child, said, "No, never with seafood," and walked away.

Perhaps the customer is not always right in his part of Italy.

The no cheese on seafood is pretty prevalent in real Italian places, though they'll usually do it (reluctantly, with an eye roll).

JoAnn, interesting to read about buttering only the piece going into the mouth. After I married my husband, I discovered he would only butter the piece of bread he was going to bite off. It drove me crazy, and when I asked him why he did that, he said his mother taught him that was the right way to eat bread. She was German. So when I ate at their house for dinner, I buttered my entire slice of bread before eating, cause that is what my momma taught me to do! Yep, I'm a sassy person.

The no cheese on seafood is pretty prevalent in real Italian places, though they'll usually do it (reluctantly, with an eye roll).

Oh, yes, I know the waiter was right / traditional but he was not a nonna and we were not in Italy, you know?

I know, but just meant not unprecedented. The late Steve DiPeitro at Il Cigno in Scardale absolutely refused any cheese on seafood pastas, a few others places as well.

[Robin Garr]

Marcella Hazan's son Giuliano says she was not a hardshell fundamentalist on this issue. From his blog:

Recently, one of Marcella’s facebook friends asked.

Marcella, can you answer the age-old question as to why Italians do not put cheese on pasta with fish? (or on any fish for that matter!)

Marcella answered:

When it comes to flavor, consensus over time is the foundation supporting traditional predilections. In those preparations where seafood is cooked or marinated in olive oil – linguine with clams, grilled whole fish – the texture and flavor of Parmesan cheese are incongruous. How do you explain incongruity? You either get it or you don’t. This not an absolute prohibition, however. In Venice, where we sometimes cook seafood in butter, a light dose of Parmesan cheese is acceptable. And even in some strongly flavored dishes based on olive oil, cheese may find a place, but only Romano, not Parmigiano.

https://giulianohazan.com/cheese-on-pasta-with-fish/

[Jenise]

I mostly agree that cheese and fish don't belong together. But categorically shellfish is to my taste buds something else entirely. Go get some raw shrimp, dip in egg seasoned with a lot of fresh crushed garlic, roll in shredded parmesan, then pan fry: you'll never question it again.

I have also read that the funky/fermented character of cheese is simply wrong for dishes where the emphasis is on freshness.

I still like a bit on shrimp pesto.