My first sourdough!!!!!

[Jenise]

FirstSourdough.jpg

This is using Larry's starter, which wasn't quite ready yet I didn't think. I just used the discard in an overnight no-knead dough recipe from Jim Lahey that I found on Leite's Culinaria. I'm so proud of it! I could hardly believe I made that! Thank you Larry!!!

Of course, not one to mess up a good thing I used the same recipe a few days later and got my hat handed to me. For one, I don't think the starter had restarted enough*. And then I let the second rise overproof. The final result was pretty flat. Delicious, and actually perfect for making crostinis out of, but still texturally a failure for sourdough with none of the perfect big holes I got on Loaf #1 pictured above.

Loaf #3 is proofing right now.

*Larry, I had expected to come in here today and tell you that I think I f---ed up my starter. It was gluey when I stirred it yesterday, not bubbly. It wasn't bubbly the day I made flat loaf #2 either. I'm guessing that by mistake I used bread flour in my starter not AP. I used the starter anyway and gave it a 1/4 tsp of yeast for reinforcement when I mixed loaf #3 yesterday, then to the starter added the AP flour and water I was supposed to and left it on the counter. By bedtime it was bubbly, so I think it's been revived. Whew!

We'll see how Loaf #3 turns out. The dough looks GREAT this morning, but mixing this one yesterday afternoon wasn't without problems. The dough mixed up fine but I tasted it--I taste everything--and it was way too salty. I typically use Diamond Crystal but unable to find it and unwilling to make an additional stop at the store I'd have to go to to get it I bought Morton's Coarse Kosher. JEEZ it's salty, about twice what the same quantity of Diamond Crystal would have been so I mixed 1/3 more flour/water/yeast/starter and went about the tricky business of incorporating that into the dough ball I already had, afraid I was overhandling (the recipe I'm using warns against mixing over 30 seconds). But I think it's going to be fine. I'll just have an extra large loaf.

That #1 looks great Jenise.

Betsy has been making sourdough for a month or so now. Trying different recipes (latest was the famous Tartine recipe). I've thought all good, though she has found something wrong with each (bottom crust too hard I think was latest). But what I've discovered is that what I really like are the things she makes with discard - especially crackers (I think King Arthur recipe) and Korean-style scallion pancakes.

Strangely, we've had to buy Mortons KS as well, store hasn't had DC.

[Jenise]

That #1 looks great Jenise.

Betsy has been making sourdough for a month or so now. Trying different recipes (latest was the famous Tartine recipe). I've thought all good, though she has found something wrong with each (bottom crust too hard I think was latest). But what I've discovered is that what I really like are the things she makes with discard - especially crackers (I think King Arthur recipe) and Korean-style scallion pancakes.

Strangely, we've had to buy Mortons KS as well, store hasn't had DC.

My bottom crust on Loaf #1 was fairly hard, you can see that in the picture. I attributed it to the 150 year old (hammered aluminum) Dutch oven I cooked it in which is why I went to a traditional open sheet pan for Loaf #2. I'm wondering what difference using a ceramic pot will make. (Opinions invited.)

Mortons is saltier by volume than Diamond Crystal, I knew that, but this Extra Coarse version is even more so and super opaque/white, like what you'd put on pretzels. Can't wait to be back with DC.

Looks good, Jenise. I also made some yesterday using my red grape starter--pretty tasty.

Using bread flour in starter instead of AP shouldn't make any difference. After a while, you'll understand the nuances of your starter, but they're pretty damn tough. I've had my share of mishaps with overproofing and try real hard to choose the right moment and let oven-spring do its thing.

I don't know about x-coarse Morton Kosher, but here's what I've memorized:

1Tbs table salt = 1.5 Tbs Morton kosher = 2 Tbs DC kosher

A lot of variables involved in baking bread: temps, position in oven, stone or no stone, steaming/no steaming, en cloche or not, timing, etc. That's what makes it fun: experimenting.

[Jenise]

Well, of course my starter's pretty tough, I named him after you for a reason!

But thanks re the AP vs. Bread. I would have thought I'd used the AP all along, but I have both flours (identical bins) out when working on the bread and couldn't swear that I unthinkingly grabbed the wrong one. That's all I could attribute a cause to.

Okay, so Loaf #3 is out of the oven. Wait til you see it. It's professional bakery perfect to look at, great color, lofty height, and unlike loaf #1 which I had to cut into in order to find out if I had holes, this one I don't have to cut into. I know I nailed it. I can't believe I actually baked that thing.

Learning curve lesson: though this one ended up with more flour to repair an accident, it's obviously the result I'm going to like best. From now on: 4 cups!

Go, Jenise!

Way to go, Jenise! Do post a photo of loaf #3.

I'm total crap when it comes to baked goods or pastry. I can manage Chinese steamed buns and baked curried meat pies, but that's it. I'm in total awe of you and Larry making home-baked bread.

-Paul W.

[Jenise]

ThirdSourdough.jpg

Loaf #3!!!!!

This was PERFECT. Great loft, big holes, incredible crust top and bottom, that lovely rift on the top, perfect flavor and that stretchy/moist character that only sourdough has (loaf #1 was drier).

Difference between this and Loaf #1: oven temp lower by 50 degrees, ceramic pot, one cup more flour, three additional hours for first rise (19 hours first rise, four hours 2nd rise--in a warming drawer with no heat, approx 70 F ambient).

I was thinking about buying a proofing basket but I'm liking the rustic hand-made look of the free-form round, so don't think I need it.

Whoa!!

-Paul W.

Bravo!

Now you've just taken the first step of a life journey experimenting with different techniques, ingredients, equipment, etc.

Sourdough bread lasts longer and has a lower glycemic response due to its acid component. After achieving a crisp crust you don't want to store the loaf in plastic (it'll soften the crust). What I do with a boule is I upend the loaf on its cut side and place on my cutting board. It'll last several days before starting to get tough or stale. That's when you can pop it into a bag and store it or freeze it sliced or unsliced.

I put my bread in paper bags if I'm giving it away and admonish people not to put it in plastic.

[Jenise]

Oh yeah, well aware of the effect of plastic containment on bread, so point taken.

Am trying to gain a foothold on maintaining Larry, Jr. though. Some questions: So I made dough on Monday. If I want to make dough again tomorrow, is that putting too much strain on Little Larry? Should I leave the starter out to make him more vigorous for that event? Essentially: what interval is optimal for taking and feeding? Oh, and I currently have just under 2 cups of starter--think it would make sense to maintain two cups even. Any harm in just feeding him a little extra next time?

Lots of variables. When I make 100% sourdough bread, I usually start the night before, which is when I feed the starter and leave it on the counter. If several days will go by before baking again, I'll stick the starter in the fridge to slow down the fermentation so the yeast won't run out of food. (BTW, it's a good idea to label when the starter is fed if it's a while between bakings. And I strongly suggest that you freeze a little backup blob of your starter or dry it 100% and put it in a vial or jar in case you somehow neglect or kill your starter.)

Some bakers just save a piece of unbaked dough (called a levain) to use in the next day's bread instead of the mother starter. And if you run up against a time factor, you can always cheat by adding 1/4 tsp instant yeast the next day before the final rise to accelerate things (if I have to do that, I call it my hybrid sourdough bread). But don't use that dough for a levain; the commercial yeast will win and overtake your sourdough yeast.

Which reminds me of a story: I was telling a guy about my starters from here and there, and he said he had lived in Alaska and had an Alaskan starter. So, I asked him for a little piece. Sometime later I asked him about the history and culture of my new starter. Turns out he had made it from a package of Fleischmann's yeast when he lived in Alaska. Duh.

[Jenise]

I've been starting my dough between 3 and 6 in the afternoon and baking around noon the next day. Works well with the way we live our days these days.

I've been reading Ken Atkinson's book Flour and Water. I want to work my over to his methods but yesterday's result was so perfectly spectacular I question my need to do anything different. His way (with a levain) seems more complex than I, the sporadic home baker, might need to address.

How in the world do you keep all your starters going?

I keep my starters in the fridge. Then I rotate them according to when I last fed them. It may be heresy, but I find myself using starter that hasn't been fed for a month or so (I make bread only once or twice a week), but they perk right up when I next use them (or I just take a little time and feed them all at once). Like I've said, starters are pretty tough, but I have backups just in case.

I keep one cup of starter in my containers but nothing wrong with two cups, except you have to use more flour to feed them. I've read that sourdough book you mention, amongst others. There's also a plethora of sourdough lessons online. There's a zillion methods you have to navigate through, but go slowly, experiment, and use what works for you.

Loaf #3!!!!!

This was PERFECT. Great loft, big holes, incredible crust top and bottom, that lovely rift on the top, perfect flavor and that stretchy/moist character that only sourdough has (loaf #1 was drier).

Difference between this and Loaf #1: oven temp lower by 50 degrees, ceramic pot, one cup more flour, three additional hours for first rise (19 hours first rise, four hours 2nd rise--in a warming drawer with no heat, approx 70 F ambient).

What a beauty!

Jenise, I predict you'll slowly accumulate various accoutrements for baking bread.

One tip I just remembered is that I use an old olive-green wool Army blanket cut into pieces for covering rising dough. Dough doesn't stick to the wool like some other fibers or plastic wrap. Some people also use floured linen.

[Jenise]

I actually had a "dough bowl". Large, wide and shallow, I bought it 30 years ago because I liked the look of it, and not until I got it home did I notice the label underneath that announced its purpose. Every loaf of bread I've made in my life proofed in that bowl, and Little Larry Loaf #4 is in it as I type.

I am also fortunate to have a warming drawer in my kitchen, and it has a proof setting. It's warm enough now (got up to 77 yesterday, the first hot day we've had this summer) and I'm liking the results of an 18-20 overnight ambient rise so no need to turn it on, but it's the perfect place for rising doughs in progress and will be handy come winter.

I've always admired the look of loaves that had those rings from proofing bowls, but now I'm loving the rustic hand-made look of what I'm producing (if every loaf looked like #3 I'd be quite happy) so don't think there's any need to go there. Too, the shape will be determined by the pot. The oval of my current ceramic pot is not ideal for a boule but the properties of the Emile Henry ceramic are, so for now, that's my pot. Maybe all I will ever need. And hey, it would make a pretty good batard!

I've used floured smooth cotton towels. Used a different cotton towel for Loaf #1 and boy did the dough stick to that guy. In fact, it stuck more to the bowl when removed from the first rise too. Loaf #3 wasn't nearly that sticky in the bowl, and by then I'd discovered a pile of smooth brand new Williams Sonoma towels that are perfect, large enough to be both top and bottom, and that's what I'm using now.

A friend describes using her discard for crepes--just add eggs and milk. Also, she just made pasta out of hers. I look forward to trying some of these things.

A question: my starter ends up with almost a half inch of water on top. Should I be adding more flour? The one previous starter I had (the vinegarry one my neighbor gave me) didn't do that.

A question: my starter ends up with almost a half inch of water on top. Should I be adding more flour? The one previous starter I had (the vinegarry one my neighbor gave me) didn't do that.

What's on top is the alcoholic byproduct of fermentation. It's called "hootch," sometimes prized by pioneers who didn't have liquor stores. Smell it: it should smell clean and alcoholic.

The liquid is of no importance; some starters have different proportions of flour/water. All my starters are of the liquidy type. Just stir the liquid back into the settled dough before using it. If my starters start getting too thin, I just back off a little on the water when feeding.

[Jenise]

The liquid is of no importance; some starters have different proportions of flour/water. All my starters are of the liquidy type. Just stir the liquid back into the settled dough before using it. If my starters start getting too thin, I just back off a little on the water when feeding.

What I thought.

Just punched down Loaf #4 and started the second rise. Tasted the raw dough: wow, is it sour! I love that! Does the starter increase in sour character as we go along?

Btw, right now Little Larry's supporting a new loaf every other day. That can go on forever without a reduction in quality?

[Jenise]

FourthSourdough.jpg

Two days ago I didn't think anything could be prettier than Loaf #3. Then Loaf #4 came out of the oven a few minutes ago.

Does the starter increase in sour character as we go along?

Btw, right now Little Larry's supporting a new loaf every other day. That can go on forever without a reduction in quality?

You're doing great. Now I would like you to experiment with some diastatic malt powder or non-diastatic malt powder. Look around for them online. You don't need much per loaf. And read up on the differences between them. It's all part of playing with recipes. Fun!

The sourness should stay pretty constant. There are some tricks for increasing sourness such as adding a bit of citric acid--if you want it. The sourdough goes on ad infinitum if you feed it.

Finnish bread-72.jpg

coffeecake-72.jpg

Yesterday I baked three small loaves of non-sourdough Finnish hiivaleipa (top).

The bottom is one of three coffeecakes I baked, using some homemade apricot spread given to me, raisins, and chopped almonds.

[Jenise]

The Finnish rolls (or are those small loaves)? Look great. Rye flour? Pretty little coffee cake, too. Did you have to give that one away or will Edith eat it?

Diastatic malt duly ordered. You know what, there's a restaurant in Seattle which makes the best sourdough bread I've ever eaten, and the loaves come out a deep brown the color of chestnuts. I think I now understand how they achieve that--I've wondered, didn't know. Bet it is, though. I look forward to playing with it.

Do you buy/have access to specialty flours down there? Good stuff from small mills, I mean, vs. the better commercially available stuff like King Arthur or Bob's Red Mill.

The Finnish rolls (or are those small loaves)? Look great. Rye flour? Pretty little coffee cake, too. Did you have to give that one away or will Edith eat it?

Do you buy/have access to specialty flours down there? Good stuff from small mills, I mean, vs. the better commercially available stuff like King Arthur or Bob's Red Mill.

They're not-too-small-loaves of bread with some rye and WW flour. Lots of specialty flours available here. Virtually no loaves of bread baked by me without some kind of combination. The only local flour from a small mill comes from south of Albuquerque, but it's just white flour.

The coffeecake is one of three that measured about 12" long. Gave away two, Edie ate the one over a couple of days (I had a taste).

I have a grain mill that I haven't used yet, but hope to use it someday on some whole grains of various sorts.