Everything about food, from matching food and wine to recipes, techniques and trends.

Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3905

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Peter May » Thu May 19, 2016 6:27 am

Last week we were continuing researching the Civil War for Mrs M's novel and visiting Boscobel House, where my ancesters hid King Charles II when he was fleeing after his army was utterly and finally defeated at Worcester in 1651.

We stayed in the attractive historic city of Worcester in the County of Worcestershire.

It's in Worcester that Lea & Perrins manufacture their famous Worcestershire Sauce. Unfortunately the factory is not open to visitors, 'because of the secret recipe' we were told at the information and tourist office.

So I asked them how the sauce's name should be pronounced - is it Worcestershire Sauce or Worcester Sauce?.

They were careful to say that the name on the label says Worcestershire Sauce, however the locals all know it as Worcester Sauce.

Worcester being pronounced like Jeeve's employer - Wooster, and Worcestershire as wooster-sheer
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jenise » Thu May 19, 2016 9:32 am

I remember learning all that when I lived in England, but I've reverted to calling it 'wur-stur-sheer' like all Americans. :)
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Jeff Grossman

Rank

That 'pumpkin' guy

Posts

7371

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:56 am

Location

NYC

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jeff Grossman » Thu May 19, 2016 9:33 am

Interesting local distinction, Peter.

Wonder what the secret ingredients are?
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jenise » Thu May 19, 2016 9:59 am

Wikipedia's entry on it is quite interesting:

The origin of the Lea & Perrins recipe is unclear. The packaging originally stated that the sauce came "from the recipe of a nobleman in the county". The company has also claimed that "Lord Marcus Sandys, ex-Governor of Bengal" encountered it while in India with the East India Company in the 1830s, and commissioned the local apothecaries to recreate it. However, author Brian Keogh concluded in his privately published history of the Lea & Perrins firm on the 100th anniversary of the Midland Road plant, that "No Lord Sandys was ever a governor of Bengal, or as far as any records show, ever in India."

According to historian and Herald for Wales, Major Francis Jones, the introduction of the recipe can be attributed to Captain Henry Lewis Edwardes (1788–1866).[5] Edwardes, originally of Rhyd-y-gors, Carmarthenshire, was a veteran of the Napoleonic wars and held the position of Deputy-Lieutenant of Carmarthenshire. He is believed to have brought the recipe home after travels in India. The article does not say how the recipe found its way to Messrs Lea and Perrins.

When the recipe was first mixed at the pharmacy of John Wheeley Lea and William Henry Perrins, the resulting product was so strong that it was considered inedible and the barrel was abandoned in the basement. Looking to make space in the storage area a few years later, the chemists decided to try it again, and discovered that the sauce had fermented and mellowed and was now palatable. In 1838 the first bottles of "Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce" were released to the general public.[3][6] On 16 October 1897, Lea & Perrins relocated manufacturing of the sauce from their pharmacy to a factory in the city of Worcester on Midland Road, where it is still manufactured. The factory produces ready-mixed bottles for domestic distribution and a concentrate for bottling abroad.


In 1930, the Lea & Perrins operation was purchased by HP Foods, which was in turn acquired by the Imperial Tobacco Company in 1967. HP was sold to Danone in 1988 and then to Heinz in 2005.



Here are the purported ingredients, and recipes for duplicates abound on the internet, including vegan versions (there's even one by Martha Stewart). However, if one has ever bought/tasted any brands other than the original Lea & Perrins, it's pretty obvious that no one's actually figured out how to accurately duplicate it.

malt vinegar (from barley)
molasses
water
sugar
onions
anchovies
salt
garlic
cloves
tamarind extract
natural flavourings*
chilli pepper extract

*The "natural flavourings" are believed to include:

soy sauce
lemons
pickles
peppers
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21715

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Robin Garr » Thu May 19, 2016 10:48 am

Peter May wrote:Worcester being pronounced like Jeeve's employer - Wooster, and Worcestershire as wooster-sheer

That's exactly how my family said it growing up. I have no idea how we knew. The British side of the family having arrived here around 1689, you'd think we would have forgotten. :oops:
no avatar
User

Jeff Grossman

Rank

That 'pumpkin' guy

Posts

7371

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:56 am

Location

NYC

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jeff Grossman » Thu May 19, 2016 8:20 pm

Thanks, Jenise. Lea & Perrins' is famous in trivia circles as one of the few Western condiments that is made from tamarinds.

It also took me years before I understood that the anchovies are there for umami, not fishiness.

In any case, I splashed a little on my skirt steak tonight, in honor of the conversation!
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3905

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Peter May » Fri May 20, 2016 6:26 am

Jenise wrote:Wikipedia's entry on it is quite interesting:


What I found interesting is that Wikipedia says the recipe is different for the USA, so I went looking.

Lea & Perrins US website doesn't give the ingredients (nor does it state that the sauce is made in Worcester).

However a US bottle shown on Amazon.com has a picture of the ingredients list showing 12

Distilled white vinegar, molasses, sugar, water, salt, onions, anchovies, garlic, cloves, tamarind extract, natural flavorings, chili pepper extract.

Lea & Perrins UK website lists 11 ingredients as

Malt vinegar, molasses, spirit vinegar, sugar, salt, onions, anchovies, tamarind extract, garlic, spice, flavourings


But I have a very old bottle - how old I don't know but it doesn't have the EU 'e' sign on the size - and its 10 ingredients are

Vinegar, molasses, sugar, shallots, anchovies, tamarinds, garlic, salt, spices, natural flavourings - note shallots instead of onions..

So it seems the sauce's ingredients are flexible, and 'original & genuine' is a concept
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3905

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Peter May » Fri May 20, 2016 6:36 am

Jeff Grossman wrote: Lea & Perrins' is famous in trivia circles as one of the few Western condiments that is made from tamarinds.


HP Sauce - 'The King of Sauces'* also has tamarinds as an ingredient


*IMO
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jenise » Fri May 20, 2016 8:35 am

In any case, I splashed a little on my skirt steak tonight, in honor of the conversation!


I've actually never used it bare-naked like that. Yeah, I've tasted it solo in order to understand it, but I only ever use it as seasoning. Sometimes in (but not on) scrambled eggs, often in a barbecue style sauce, and sometimes in salad dressing and meat loaves.

As a kid I'd add it to ketchup to make a hot pan sauce for fried wieners. :)
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Ted Richards

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

419

Joined

Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:00 pm

Location

Toronto, Canada

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Ted Richards » Fri May 20, 2016 2:40 pm

Peter May wrote:
However a US bottle shown on Amazon.com has a picture of the ingredients list showing 12

Distilled white vinegar, molasses, sugar, water, salt, onions, anchovies, garlic, cloves, tamarind extract, natural flavorings, chili pepper extract.

Lea & Perrins UK website lists 11 ingredients as

Malt vinegar, molasses, spirit vinegar, sugar, salt, onions, anchovies, tamarind extract, garlic, spice, flavourings


But I have a very old bottle - how old I don't know but it doesn't have the EU 'e' sign on the size - and its 10 ingredients are

Vinegar, molasses, sugar, shallots, anchovies, tamarinds, garlic, salt, spices, natural flavourings - note shallots instead of onions..

So it seems the sauce's ingredients are flexible, and 'original & genuine' is a concept


And it's different again in Canada: My bottle says

malt vinegar (barley), spirit vinegar, water, refiner's molasses, sugar, salt, anchovies (fish), tamarind extract, onions, garlic, spice, flavours

and product of England.

I like that it has to tell us that anchovies are fish (who knew :D ). Also that the Canadian version apparently has more anchovies and tamarind than onions - the opposite of the US and UK versions.
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3905

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Peter May » Sat May 21, 2016 6:20 am

That's interesting!

I'm intrigued by the Chili pepper extract in the US version which is missing from the UK and Canadian versions, unless hidden in spices

I'm tempted to get a bottle when next in the USA to see if its hotter, but I don't use Worcester Sauce, the bottle we have here is likely 20 years old and I can't remember why we originally got it.

I add a dash to one of the stews I make every now and again when I remember to.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jenise » Sat May 21, 2016 12:37 pm

Peter May wrote:That's interesting!

I'm intrigued by the Chili pepper extract in the US version which is missing from the UK and Canadian versions, unless hidden in spices

I'm tempted to get a bottle when next in the USA to see if its hotter, but I don't use Worcester Sauce, the bottle we have here is likely 20 years old and I can't remember why we originally got it.

I add a dash to one of the stews I make every now and again when I remember to.


The American version isn't hot, but it has a bite. Not a chile bite, thought, to my tastes. Weird!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8489

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Paul Winalski » Sat May 21, 2016 1:42 pm

I suspect that most of the differences in the ingredients lists are due to different product labeling laws in the respective countries. But there may also be real differences--there often is when a brand is formulated in different countries. Coca-Cola is perhaps the most famous case--in the US it is sweetened with high-fructose corn syrup, whereas in Latin America it is sweetened with sugar (sucrose). There is a brisk trade in imported Mexican Coca-cola for this reason. Many (myself included) prefer the flavor of the sugar-sweetened stuff.

I do know that HP Sauce produced in the US tastes a bit different from HP Sauce imported from the UK. I have never tasted imported and US domestic Lea & Perrins Worstershire Sauce side-by-side.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jenise » Sat May 21, 2016 2:20 pm

I once had Kikkoman soy sauces, American and Japanese made, side by side. Same kind of difference, though in some cases it's actually hard to tell if it's deliberate or something accidental buried in those "natural flavorings".
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Bill Spohn

Rank

He put the 'bar' in 'barrister'

Posts

9969

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm

Location

Vancouver BC

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Bill Spohn » Tue May 24, 2016 2:40 pm

Jenise wrote:I remember learning all that when I lived in England, but I've reverted to calling it 'wur-stur-sheer' like all Americans. :)


Interesting. Up here is has always been 'wooster'. Didn't realize you yanks did it differently, but them it doesn't come up in conversation that often.

Went to school for a year with a guy called Cholmondely - that one almost universally throws people as to pronunciation, US and otherwise.

There are a few other surnames that Peter and I would probably pronounce the same way but other countries would vary - Beauchamp, Mainwaring and Kerr come to mind - I'm sure there are many others.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jenise » Tue May 24, 2016 3:49 pm

Bill: Bow-shom and Care is how I would pronounce the first and third of your options. But Mainwaring--it's not mane-ware-eeng? I can't for the life of me read into it any other way of saying that.

Btw, my pronunciation of wor-ster-sheer is often frowned upon by some Americans who draw the whole thing out as wore-ces-ter-shire. If they've never heard it pronounced by an Englishman, how would they know?
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21715

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Robin Garr » Tue May 24, 2016 4:04 pm

Jenise wrote:Bow-shom

There was a string of Kentucky Democratic pols, back at the dawn of the Baby Boom, with the family name Beauchamp, pronounced BEE-chum. I expect this was an Appalachianized form of some old English pronunciation.
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Hoke » Wed May 25, 2016 1:29 am

We can add Taliaferro to the list. Pronunciation is "tolliver". Well known name in Virginia/Carolinas.

And I'll echo Robin on Beauchamp/Beecham.

I once met a young man from England who pronounced his name "Sin-gen". Spelled it St. John.
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3905

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Peter May » Wed May 25, 2016 6:37 am

Can't be any Brit who doesn't know the correct pronunciation of Mainwaring is 'Mannering' as it has ben a running gag in what is probably the most popular sit-com in UK TV history -- Dad's Army.

Made between 1968 and 1977 and repeated ever since and it still pulls in high ratings.

Pompous Capt Mainwaring's (Mannering) rival Capt Square always and deliberatly calls him a drawn out 'Main Wearing'
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21715

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Robin Garr » Wed May 25, 2016 9:38 am

Hoke wrote:We can add Taliaferro to the list. Pronunciation is "tolliver". Well known name in Virginia/Carolinas.

And Maryland, from whence it came to Kentucky, with the silent 'g' retained in Tagliaferro, but still pronounced Tolliver. We actually have a Tagliaferro in our family tree on my Mom's side, but the Italian heritage is extremely attenuated. The original of the line was apparently an Italian military officer who came to England in the 12th century. :mrgreen:
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

43586

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Jenise » Wed May 25, 2016 9:53 am

Hoke wrote: I once met a young man from England who pronounced his name "Sin-gen". Spelled it St. John.


He's not alone. There was an identically named Englishman on a chat show out of Dallas who pronounced his name that way.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Paul Winalski

Rank

Wok Wielder

Posts

8489

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Location

Merrimack, New Hampshire

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Paul Winalski » Wed May 25, 2016 10:50 am

And speaking of Maryland, BBC news readers and correspondents always pronounce it "Mary-land", whereas the US pronunciation is "mare-i-lnd" with a short 'i' (as in 'it') and an almost nonexistent schwa vowel on the last syllable.

-Paul W.
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Hoke » Wed May 25, 2016 8:47 pm

And while we are at it:

Delaware, the name of the state, and the Anglo name for the local Indian tribe, was from the Colonial Governor of the province, De La Warre.
no avatar
User

Peter May

Rank

Pinotage Advocate

Posts

3905

Joined

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am

Location

Snorbens, England

Re: Worcestershire Sauce Pronunciation

by Peter May » Fri May 27, 2016 12:09 pm

Hoke wrote:

I once met a young man from England who pronounced his name "Sin-gen". Spelled it St. John.


Was a very well known politician in Mrs Thatcher's government and media pundit named Norman St John-Stevas here - pronounced Sin-gen
Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClaudeBot and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign