Have a Knife Day

I'd been using a French high carbon steel blade in the kitchen for many years. They will discolour as they are not stainless, but the advantage they have over stainless is tha they take a sharper edge and hold it longer. I'd been wondering about the Japanese style blades and Jenise recommended a Calphalon Katana 7" slicer she'd been using, so I picked one up - at $70 on Amazon, about half the price of the more expensive knives like the Shun Santoku. While the steel is Japanese, the manufacture is, judging my the marking on the blade, carried out in China.



You really need a good sharpening system, and while I'd been using a 1.000 and 4,000 grit dry stone, I switched to a Japanese waterstone in 1,000/6,000.


http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-SteeleX ... Waterstone

I thought I'd post a follow up on the knife.

The handle is very comfortable to use for both me and my 'Sue' chef, but I've seen people complaining that they don't like the angle. It takes a good edge quickly, but it doesn't seem to be a particularly hard steel so it will dull and roll the edge and requires frequent touch up with a steel, no big deal. Just be careful about over use of the steel. Many people seem to suffer under the misapprehension that the steel is how you sharpen a knife. Not so. It is a method of attending to a rolled edge (the edge of these knives is very, very thin, so will roll slightly with normal use) but when you steel it, you get a slightly rough edge that wears more quickly than a honed edge. I steel my knives when I am in the middle of cutting, but always touch up on a stone regularly for a uniform longer lasting edge every few weeks.

How does it compare to my vintage high carbon steel knife? Well it has a slight curve, so facilitates a rocking cut for veggies, which is handy, and it takes a very nice edge quickly. The HC steel knives normally have a harder edge and therefor take a sharp edge that last a bit longer, and that's what I have observed with these knives.

BTW, to test sharpness, I take a knife and rest the blade on a tomato and just supporting the weight of the handle, draw it along. A dull blade just slides off but a really sharp knife will cut half way thought the tomato under it's own weight alone. You'll find that certain areas of the blade go dull faster depending on what you've been cutting. I tend to use utility stainless knives for rough work - purchased from a local meat shop when they discard and replace them, the plastic handled stainless blades are great for rendering big carcasses, but I get out my French chef's knife or Solingen made HC boning knife if I want to be precise.

Pardon all the content from a knife fan (there are many far more fanatic about knives than I) but I shudder every time I go to someone's house and see that they 'sharpen' their knives using an electric grinder with coarse stones, or just an old steel and don't realize what a joy a really sharp knife can be. And I tend to believe the old saw that a sharp knife is a safer knife less likely to slip and cut you as long as you are paying attention to what you are doing.

Anyone out there using any Sabatier HC steel chef's knives? Been pondering if that wouldn't be interesting to try.

[Jenise]

Mine hold their edges for a long, long time, and as you know that's what I love about them. I also like the handle. Didn't expect to (and as you may remember I didn't originally buy these knives for myself but for gifts, and I ended up using one for reasons I don't remember now at all). I was sold on the so-called ergonomic style handle of several other knives I have (isn't "ergonomic" always better?) and while I appreciated the sexy design of the Katanas was sure the handle would be lousy for someone with serious culinary inclinations like myself. But alas, as stated before, no knife is more comfortable in my hand than this.

[Jenise]

Oops, I prematurely hit 'SUBMIT'. Meant to add that my knives (I have one smaller, unbeveled Katana too) are around 8 years old, and I bought them shortly after they won the design award that brought them to my attention. Could be that some changes in manufacture have occurred since.

I also bought a Katana santoku after Jenise's post, along with a Nakiri cleaver:http://store.calphalon.com/calphalon-katana-series-7-in-nakiri-asian-cleaver/362809

I've found both to be quite easy to handle and are quite an upgrade from my lower-end Henckels. The experience with them has led me to begin upgrading all my knives - today I picked up a Shun Classic 8" chef's knife (I really liked the feel, weight and balance) and a Shun Classic paring knife (my intended target when I went into the store).

While I use a steel each time I use a knife (yes to straighten the edge), I don't have any good sharpening system, which I will need to address. I do have a pair of ceramic sticks that set into a block at a V but they are coarser than what I'd want in the kitchen.

[Jenise]

I also bought a Katana santoku after Jenise's post, along with a Nakiri cleaver:http://store.calphalon.com/calphalon-katana-series-7-in-nakiri-asian-cleaver/362809

I've found both to be quite easy to handle and are quite an upgrade from my lower-end Henckels. The experience with them has led me to begin upgrading all my knives - today I picked up a Shun Classic 8" chef's knife (I really liked the feel, weight and balance) and a Shun Classic paring knife (my intended target when I went into the store).

While I use a steel each time I use a knife (yes to straighten the edge), I don't have any good sharpening system, which I will need to address. I do have a pair of ceramic sticks that set into a block at a V but they are coarser than what I'd want in the kitchen.

Bob just bought himself a knife sharpener that is the stone type, only it's a triangular thing with three surfaces, so you start on surface 1, then flip up the next and finally advance to the 3rd. He's absolutely in love with it. Takes less time, and the result is better than stone alone. Bought it at a high-end cutlery store in Seattle--have never seen the type anywhere else.

What are the grits on his stone?

The only thing you have to be careful about with that sort of sharpening system is that it is far easier to 'hone' in on one area of the blade in prefence to others and you can get a localized effect that can, over the years, result in a hollowed edge. The flat stones tend to avoid that.

BTW, there are any number of long drawn out youtube videos of sharpening technique that tend to make one doze off, but this one is concise and a short watch. He is using a stone that badly needs flattening though - see the comments below the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6yJD2tvQpg#t=31

[Jenise]

What are the grits on his stone?

The only thing you have to be careful about with that sort of sharpening system is that it is far easier to 'hone' in on one area of the blade in prefence to others and you can get a localized effect that can, over the years, result in a hollowed edge. The flat stones tend to avoid that.

BTW, there are any number of long drawn out youtube videos of sharpening technique that tend to make one doze off, but this one is concise and a short watch. He is using a stone that badly needs flattening though - see the comments below the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6yJD2tvQpg#t=31

But it is flat! That is, it's three sided, and each side is a flat surface. Picture if you took a toilet paper holder and laid it on it's back, roller up, and if the roller wasn't a free-moving roller but a three sided thingie that clicks firmly into each position, with three progressively finer surfaces. The surfaces are each about the size of the single sharpening stone he's been using for years, but the grit is even finer on the finest setting. He loves that the sharpening surface is elevated from the surface it sits on, finds it a lot easier to work with than the single flat stone on the counter.

[Robin Garr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6yJD2tvQpg#t=31

Definitely one of the best YouTube sharpening tutorials.

The only tip he omits - and maybe it's too flexible for some, but it works for me - is to get the right angle intuitively by imagining that you are trying to slice a long, thin strip off the stone or steel. I find that visualizing this makes the right angle and motion come naturally.

Look forward to seeing that stone, Jenise.

Good tip, Robin!

Jenise - take a look at this page part way down - is this like the 3 sided sharpener Bob got? Looks interesting. More different sharpeners on that page than you'd ever think existed!

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SharpeningCatalog.html

I've enjoyed this knife thread. I've had Wusthof for years and have not really been happy with them, since I started using ceramic knives for slicing veggies and dicing. The ceramic has it's drawbacks too. I ordered the Katana santoku 7-inch chef's knife because it is the knife I use 99% of the time in my kitchen. I did read it was heavy, so am only slightly concerned about that. Reviews from chefs and those who cater were very favorable. Can't wait to get it! It is interesting that I have watched Ina Garten use the Wusthof for years and she loves them. She is actually the only one I have seen using those knives exclusively. For me, they did not hold an edge well, and even after a professional sharpening were still not as sharp as some of my other knives. I use a steel before each use with all my knives except the ceramic.

Anyone out there using any Sabatier HC steel chef's knives? Been pondering if that wouldn't be interesting to try.

I have an 8" HC Sabatier chef's knife. You have to be careful when you get a Sabatier, as a number of completely different companies are allowed to use the name and the quality can vary widely. (It's actually an interesting story how that came to be, should you ever care to research it.)

I have one of the "Elephant" Sabatiers, which is still made in Thiers, France (I think they make them for Le Creuset, also). I got it to replace my 20+ year old Gustav Emil Ern, a HC knife that finally got so worn down it couldn't be saved. The Sabatier is like cutting with a laser, but it's lighter and narrower than the blade from Solingen. The German style is more geared for rocking, the French for slicing and the "down and forward" method. The Sabatier is also noticeably lighter.

Like you said about HC, it discolors. I know you can try things like rubbing it with cork, etc., but frankly it doesn't bother me. I even almost consider it a mark of distinction. It also, as you noted, takes an edge quickly, but also dulls more quickly than stainless/blends.

Finally, I know this sounds like heresy to some, but...I still reach for my ceramic knife first these days. It's as sharp or sharper than anything I've every used, anywhere, but it never needs a steel and doesn't discolor or react with acid foods like a HC knife. My current 7" will turn 3 years old this Christmas, and it's only in the past couple of months that I've noticed any dulling at all. If you're into cooking and not status, they're a real boon.

Hope this helped!

I have a good friend that has some ceramics. He says they can be a bit fragile. I think he has broken at least one. But he does love that they stay sharp a long time but not indefinitely and doesn't like that you have a hard time finding anyone but the manufacturer to sharpen them (free sharpening in many vases but the postage adds up). I believe he has Kyocera, which are reputed to be among the best.

Maybe I am swayed by the fact that I have never seen a sushi chef using anything but a steel blade.....thanks for the feedback, though. Just not sure I am ready to switch - might borrow one from my friend and see what I think of them.

I have a good friend that has some ceramics. He says they can be a bit fragile.

They are, but not so much as common lore makes them out to be. When I first got that 7" one I described, I turned it sideways and rat-a-tat-a-tat'ed it on the cutting board, an unconscious habit. On the very first "rat" about a quarter inch of the very tip snapped off. I thought "Oh god, the stories are true!" But since then, nothing. No chips, no shattering. And I don't baby that thing. As long as I don't tap it sideways, it seems pretty sturdy.

I actually have a cheapo brand - I think it was on sale for 12 dollars on Amazon. I figured I'd try it, and if I liked it I'd upgrade to Kyocera (there is a difference between brands, it turns out. Check this out: http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/290/Ceramic-Chefs-Knives-Rated). If I didn't like it, or it shattered into tiny shards as soon as it went through a tomato, I'd only be out 12 bucks. However, even this cheap model impresses me no end, initial tip incident notwithstanding.

Anyway, yeah, I certaily understand the allure of a good, traditional, knife. I don't have a wall full of them because I like the aesthetics.

I have a three-sided sharpening system, probably very similar to Bob's. It's the one listed on this site:

http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-TRI-6-Arka ... B00062BIT4

I've tried using this thing many times and I've never been able to get an edge on a knife that's as good as the one that a local professional gets on them. Because of that, I've pretty much given up sharpening my own kitchen knives. I expect that I'll go back to trying at some point, though, as it's something I'd like to be able to do.

[Jenise]

Jenise - take a look at this page part way down - is this like the 3 sided sharpener Bob got? Looks interesting. More different sharpeners on that page than you'd ever think existed!

http://www.ragweedforge.com/SharpeningCatalog.html

I saw a three-sided stick, but no Bob didn't get a stick and I didn't see any that look like what I think his looks like. I may have to take a picture of it.

[Jenise]

Yes Mike, something like that, but about four times the price I think. It was the best of several similar types Seattle Cutlery carried and they highly recommended it.

We used to "attempt" to sharpen our knives at home... We used various methods, some better than others. Then when I decided to invest in good knives, I was advised to find a good professional and have them done when needed. I have used a fellow who comes to the house, picks them up and brings them back. At that time, he also did some of the surgical cutting tools and one of the hospitals. I still use my Wusthof, for big jobs like the winter squashes. One really has to have a sharp, sturdy knife for some of those babies. They don't do well with tomatoes, not like my Kyoceras do. The Kyoceras are light and so sharp that I can get through a lot of veggies in no time. . Not fun. Looking forward to getting the Katana...always love a new knife!

Yes Mike, something like that, but about four times the price I think. It was the best of several similar types Seattle Cutlery carried and they highly recommended it.

Norton, I believe, makes a higher quality version. There may be others, though.

I have an 8" HC Sabatier chef's knife. You have to be careful when you get a Sabatier, as a number of completely different companies are allowed to use the name and the quality can vary widely. (It's actually an interesting story how that came to be, should you ever care to research it.)

The knives I have ordered are K Sabatier which has an interesting page on the manufacture. Interesting that as you pointed out there are many using the name with varying degrees of quality. The same thing has happened to Laguiole!

Take a look at this page - go to the bottom and go to the individual pages showing the manufacturing process. I bought the carbon steel not the stainless knives.

http://www.sabatier-shop.com/informatio ... ry_29.html

[Jenise]

Bill, just curious, but if you're so happy with your meat market cast-offs, why are you buying new knives?

Take a look at this page - go to the bottom and go to the individual pages showing the manufacturing process. I bought the carbon steel not the stainless knives.

That's pretty neat! I loved the guy in the "tempering" video who hammers the blade on the anvil to get it straight - using only his eyes to guage trueness. THAT'S craftsmanship.

Those look very much like mine in form. The only difference I can see (other than the brand mark) is that mine has brass rivets. Otherwise, it's that same beautiful slim profile. I think you're going to love them. Which size/type(s) did you order?

I ordered a 10" chef's knife and a 4" paring knife, both in HC steel. Looking forward to getting them!

Take a look at this page - go to the bottom and go to the individual pages showing the manufacturing process. I bought the carbon steel not the stainless knives.

http://www.sabatier-shop.com/informatio ... ry_29.html

Very interesting! Thanks for that, Bill.