In praise of Braise

Derby time in Louisville our version of Mardis Gras. Yesterday I rode my bicycle with some friends to the Downs to do some people watching and enjoy the activity around the track as the locals park cars, hawk tacky Derby souvenirs, and the guests start to go through the gates in their Derby finest, which can be expressed in a number of entertaining ways. On the way back we passed a hotel parking lot full of RV's and smelled BBQ. It was a contest - people had come from all over the country to cook BBQ in a crowded downtown parking lot and have it judged by the experts. None of it was for sale and no free samples are allowed by the rules of the contest. There were all sorts of fancy vehicles and cookers emblazoned with names and fun logos. We walked around the lot and chatted with a few of the contestants and looked at the cookers. I've always been highly entertained by BBQ with its intense regional rivalries. I love the venues, and there is some very good BBQ here in Western KY which prizes its mutton BBQ, but with the possible exception of a visit to Arthur Bryant"s in KC years ago, I can't say I've ever had a meal of BBQ which was really memorable or great. Good, fun, yes, exceptional, no. Later in the day I seared and then braised some locavore pork rib tips in red wine and tomatoes with onions, carrots, celery and garlic - the most very basic and simple of braises - for just over 3 hours at 325˚. The results were magnificent! Groan out loud delicious. I wanted to take some down to the BBQ contest and say "here, try this." To me, a 3 hour braise beats a 24 hour dry roast any day. Here's to braising - one of the simplest and most flavorful ways to cook ever!

Anyone want to rise to the occasion and explain to me how BBQ is better?

Oooh, throwing down a real gauntlet here, Bob!

Personally, I love both. To me, good barbecue is more "alive" than braised dishes. It has more pep and zing to it and just seems more joyful. Braised dishes are more quiet and comforting. They're the Catholic-mass-in-a-magnificent-cathedral to barbecue's Mighty Clouds of Joy gospel ceremony. They both satisfy the soul, albeit from different angles.

[Jenise]

Oooh, throwing down a real gauntlet here, Bob!

Personally, I love both. To me, good barbecue is more "alive" than braised dishes. It has more pep and zing to it and just seems more joyful. Braised dishes are more quiet and comforting. They're the Catholic-mass-in-a-magnificent-cathedral to barbecue's Mighty Clouds of Joy gospel ceremony. They both satisfy the soul, albeit from different angles.

Beautifully put. I really can't add much to that--but I will. BBQ is simple and direct and appeals to our most basic carnivorian impulses. Where braises are complex and omnivorian, often and usually gaining a lot of flavor from vegetables and other non-meat ingredients. Like the stuffed bell pepper I just had for breakfast.

I wanted to take some down to the BBQ contest and say "here, try this." To me, a 3 hour braise beats a 24 hour dry roast any day. Here's to braising - one of the simplest and most flavorful ways to cook ever!

Anyone want to rise to the occasion and explain to me how BBQ is better?

Bob, when I do pork butts I load my grill with about 8 pounds of either lump hardwood charcoal or a like amount of extruded coconut charcoal. I then fire the grill up to about 200 - 250F and set my bbq guru up. Then I put the butts on the grill with the probes of the guru into the meat to monitor the meat internal temp and the cooking chamber temp. I want the meat to cook to 195F and the cooking chamber at 210F. I let this got for about 18 hours without raising the lid. Sometimes I want it smokey and I add some hickory. Sometimes I want it non smokey and I leave the wood off. I never get up at night to add coals or to check the cooker. look at it when I rise the next morning and take it off when the guru says it is time to do so. I love braising for meats that call for it like beef short ribs, but it is different from bbq.

When I do a brisket, I follow a similar theme, but the cook lasts only 12-15 hours and I raise the temp to about 250F. I am jonesing for a brisket as I type this.

For a Boston Butt, we put it into our electric water smoker as is for 4.5 hours with hickory chips on the element. It falls apart after this, and we sauce the meat and feast.

I have a recipe for braised black mushrooms that I love. Yays for braise!

[Jenise]

I wanted to take some down to the BBQ contest and say "here, try this." To me, a 3 hour braise beats a 24 hour dry roast any day. Here's to braising - one of the simplest and most flavorful ways to cook ever!

Anyone want to rise to the occasion and explain to me how BBQ is better?

Bob, when I do pork butts I load my grill with about 8 pounds of either lump hardwood charcoal or a like amount of extruded charcoal charcoal. I then fire the grill up to about 200 - 250F and set my bbq guru up. Then I put the butts on the grill with the probes of the guru into the meat to monitor the meat internal temp and the cooking chamber temp. I want the meat to cook to 195F and the cooking chamber at 210F. I let this got for about 18 hours without raising the lid. Sometimes I want it smokey and I add some hickory. Sometimes I want it non smokey and I leave the wood off. I never get up at night to add coals or to check the cooker. look at it when I rise the next morning and take it off when the guru says it is time to do so. I love braising for meats that call for it like beef short ribs, but it is different from bbq.

When I do a brisket, I follow a similar theme, but the cook lasts only 12-15 hours and I raise the temp to about 250F. I am jonesing for a brisket as I type this.

Is it just because I'm awake in the middle of the night when I shouldn't be or is "probes of the guru", taken out of context, mildly obscene?

Is it just because I'm awake in the middle of the night when I shouldn't be or is "probes of the guru", taken out of context, mildly obscene?

Jenise, perhaps it was just that the thought of pulled pork made you hungry.

Barbeque has regional personality in a way that you cannot get with a braise. Let's start with the wood. Nothing can beat the smoky sear or flavor laid down by hickory or oak, or the subtle sweetness laid down by their fruitwood cousins (cherry, apple or peach). Then there is the mouth puckering tartness of vinegars and mustards, tamed by the mouthwatering sweetness of molasses and sugars, kicked up with the attitudinal addition of desired liquors (Jack Daniels, anybody?). All are adornments for the start of the show -- the meat!! You can barbeque just about anything you can out run, out maneuver or out fight, and each time you come up with something different. I agree with Mike on this one. Hallelujah!

For a Boston Butt, we put it into our electric water smoker as is for 4.5 hours with hickory chips on the element. It falls apart after this, and we sauce the meat and feast.

Carl, at what temperature do you cook butts in the electric smoker? There is a whole forum dedicated to smoking meat and most use some kind of metal cooker and some use electricity as you do. It seems to me that you have to be cooking at 350F or higher to get it done in 4.5 hours. Conventional bbq wisdom says low and slow for good Q. Not saying yours is not good, just that it is not conventional, which may work very well when time is short.

Oooh, throwing down a real gauntlet here, Bob!

Personally, I love both. To me, good barbecue is more "alive" than braised dishes. It has more pep and zing to it and just seems more joyful. Braised dishes are more quiet and comforting. They're the Catholic-mass-in-a-magnificent-cathedral to barbecue's Mighty Clouds of Joy gospel ceremony. They both satisfy the soul, albeit from different angles.

I like the Church analogy Mike, as barbecue has always appeared to have a kind of religious zeal to it. I guess Bob Henrick must be an Eastern Mystic, since he's guided by his guru. I have often said that the search for the ultimate BBQ seems like the search for the Holy Grail. I must say I would distinctly prefer a Mighty Clouds of Joy performance (one of my very favorite groups BTW) to a Roman Catholic Mass but I get your point. One might even posit that for the most part braising is for winter when you like to warm up the kitchen, and BBQ is for summer when you want to keep the heat outside. As I said, I visited Arthur Bryant's in KC years ago and still remember how very very good it was, and how I thought about it all the way home. In any case let's celebrate the slow cook! Hey Bob Henrick, I'm not that far from Lexington if you ever wanted to prove your point...

Carl, at what temperature do you cook butts in the electric smoker?

Haven't got any idea. I just turn the element up to high.

I have a recipe for braised black mushrooms that I love. Yays for braise!

Jeff, I say hooray for braise as well, even though I also champion bbq as well. Like chef Carey might say fire is not always just fire. One similarity is that both take a long slow cook to get things just right. I do not agree that one is wet and one is dry though. I might further say that meats one bbq's and meats that one braises are different and for the most part apart. I doubt that baby backs would work well in a braise for an example., and that most likely a pot roast would work well on the grill. However if I had to do one or the other I would prefer to do the chuck roast on the grill indirect at 200F for a full day.

About the braised mushrooms, are the blacks AKA woodears? I see them dried in bags in ever oriental food store in town, and just figured they would be really tough even re-constituted. Maybe braising is the answer. I believe you said you normally do fresh shitake shrooms instead, but have you done the black woodears?

The recipe calls for reconstituted shiitakes, but, good memory, Bob, I always use fresh.

I have never tried it with woodears. I think the recipe needs a fairly substantial mushroom; I'd imagine that woodears would fall apart.

[Jenise]

I might further say that meats one bbq's and meats that one braises are different and for the most part apart. I doubt that baby backs would work well in a braise for an example

Actually, baby backs work quite well in braises, consider the dim sum classic Chinese ribs in black bean sauce. After all a baby back is just pork loin meat attached to a bone, and pork loin braises well. It's true that caucasian Americans, anyway, tend to reserve bone-in meats for eat-by-the-hand food and also tend consider braised meats too wet to eat that way, but it's not because the meat itself doesn't braise well. Pork Shoulder does both preps well, so do chicken and brisket.

The recipe calls for reconstituted shiitakes, but, good memory, Bob, I always use fresh.

I have never tried it with woodears. I think the recipe needs a fairly substantial mushroom; I'd imagine that woodears would fall apart.

Thanks for the quick reply Jeff, I think I need to play around with these and both the dried black shrooms and the dried shitakes are plentiful and cheap in local Asian markets. Because we have a Toyota plant and providers to it, we have a large contingent of Asians (mostly Japanese), but many Korean and Chinese as well. Since these dried shrooms are inexpensive it is easy to play around with them.

I have a recipe for braised black mushrooms that I love. Yays for braise!

Care to share it?

I might further say that meats one bbq's and meats that one braises are different and for the most part apart. I doubt that baby backs would work well in a braise for an example

Actually, baby backs work quite well in braises, consider the dim sum classic Chinese ribs in black bean sauce. After all a baby back is just pork loin meat attached to a bone, and pork loin braises well. It's true that caucasian Americans, anyway, tend to reserve bone-in meats for eat-by-the-hand food and also tend consider braised meats too wet to eat that way, but it's not because the meat itself doesn't braise well. Pork Shoulder does both preps well, so do chicken and brisket.

Thanks for the reply Jenise. I think I am thinking of the amount of meat to bone when I say I don't think that ribs would take to braising as they do to grilling/bbq. Believe me I am a fan of both styles of cooking. Love pot roast and have even done that on my grill using a cast iron dutch oven to rave review, but that isn't bbq. I have done pork shoulder in the oven, and cut up pieces of pork shoulder (country style ribs) in a slow cooker. I used to be opposed to slow cookers, but in recent years have begun to realize they have their place in the kitchen.

Speaking of Dim Sum, I don't think we have a restaurant in Lexington that does a Dim Sum at all. I have been to one in Louisville several years ago, and found it to be quite enjoyable in that I was able to try so many dishes. In fact, to me, Dim Sum is a little like tapas are in Spain, except that usually tapas are stand up food one eats with a glass of beer. Back in the day (1970's) when I was stationed in Sevilla I never found a tapa I didn't enjoy. I do wish I could have an opportunity to have a bucket list, I would put a revisit to Spain on it.

Barbeque has regional personality in a way that you cannot get with a braise. Let's start with the wood. Nothing can beat the smoky sear or flavor laid down by hickory or oak, or the subtle sweetness laid down by their fruitwood cousins (cherry, apple or peach). Then there is the mouth puckering tartness of vinegars and mustards, tamed by the mouthwatering sweetness of molasses and sugars, kicked up with the attitudinal addition of desired liquors (Jack Daniels, anybody?). All are adornments for the start of the show -- the meat!! You can barbeque just about anything you can out run, out maneuver or out fight, and each time you come up with something different. I agree with Mike on this one. Hallelujah!

Jo Ann, I like the way you think! I make Chef Carey's bbq sauce and have always gotten good feedback from those who have tried it. I have considered making a batch of it and throwing some hickory on the grill and smoking it for a few hours at low temperature. Now that you mention it I might just try a batch with a cup or so of Jack in it.

I have a recipe for braised black mushrooms that I love. Yays for braise!

Care to share it?

http://www.wineloverspage.com/forum/village/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26645&p=228421

The recipe calls for reconstituted shiitakes, but, good memory, Bob, I always use fresh.

I have never tried it with woodears. I think the recipe needs a fairly substantial mushroom; I'd imagine that woodears would fall apart.

Actually Jeff, I cheated and looked up the original post of yours.

When I do a brisket, I follow a similar theme, but the cook lasts only 12-15 hours and I raise the temp to about 250F. I am jonesing for a brisket as I type this.

We just had a BBQ for 15 people. I made a 4.5 LB brisket on the BGE the day before. Had never done one before so used an Emeril recipe that said it should smoke for 3-4 hours. I actually let it go to to 7 hours (by accident). Took it off and it felt like shoe leather. So I added water to the pan drippings and put it in the oven for about 6 more hours. Served it the next day and people actually said it was the best brisket they'd ever had. It really was delicious and so tender (smoky too.)
Len made 6 large racks of back ribs on the BGE the day of, and I grilled a bunch of chicken thighs and wings with my brother's "famous" peach jam, marsala wine and garlic glaze.
Good time had by all. We love the BGE. Have had one for about 12 years.

We just had a BBQ for 15 people. I made a 4.5 LB brisket on the BGE the day before. Had never done one before so used an Emeril recipe that said it should smoke for 3-4 hours. I actually let it go to to 7 hours (by accident). Took it off and it felt like shoe leather. So I added water to the pan drippings and put it in the oven for about 6 more hours. Served it the next day and people actually said it was the best brisket they'd ever had. It really was delicious and so tender (smoky too.)
Len made 6 large racks of back ribs on the BGE the day of, and I grilled a bunch of chicken thighs and wings with my brother's "famous" peach jam, marsala wine and garlic glaze.Good time had by all. We love the BGE. Have had one for about 12 years.

Carrie, The BGE and my grill are very similar in that they are of a ceramic type of material which keeps roasting meat moist. I am guessing that your temperature was more than 225F which accounts for the meat being tough. Using the pan drippings and water put some moisture back into the meat and tenderized it. Not sure about the rest of the stuff like peach jam, but the end result sounds yummy. Brisket flats are pretty lean and that can make for a dry bbq as well.

We just had a BBQ for 15 people. I made a 4.5 LB brisket on the BGE the day before. Had never done one before so used an Emeril recipe that said it should smoke for 3-4 hours. I actually let it go to to 7 hours (by accident). Took it off and it felt like shoe leather. So I added water to the pan drippings and put it in the oven for about 6 more hours. Served it the next day and people actually said it was the best brisket they'd ever had. It really was delicious and so tender (smoky too.)
Len made 6 large racks of back ribs on the BGE the day of, and I grilled a bunch of chicken thighs and wings with my brother's "famous" peach jam, marsala wine and garlic glaze.Good time had by all. We love the BGE. Have had one for about 12 years.

Carrie, The BGE and my grill are very similar in that they are of a ceramic type of material which keeps roasting meat moist. I am guessing that your temperature was more than 225F which accounts for the meat being tough. Using the pan drippings and water put some moisture back into the meat and tenderized it. Not sure about the rest of the stuff like peach jam, but the end result sounds yummy. Brisket flats are pretty lean and that can make for a dry bbq as well.

Hi Bob--actually, the temp was reading just below 225, which is the temp we smoke the ribs. I'm certain it was just that it hadn't been cooked long enough, as BGE recipes for brisket that I later looked up said they smoke them upwards of 13 hours. I think it's just that the connective tissue hadn't broken down with the initial smoking. Next time I will know! And there will DEFINITELY be a next time.