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Revisiting farmed fish

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Revisiting farmed fish

by Jenise » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:16 pm

Fact #1: I once had a piece of farmed salmon at someone else's house. It tasted like sawdust. Even if I had no other objections to farmed salmon I would avoid it for that reason alone.

Fact #2: I live in the Pacific Northwest where we're surrounded by water. I even own a piece of Puget Sound shoreline. But fresh fish here is almost entirely salmon and halibut for about four months of the year. The other eight months, nearly all fish is frozen. Right now a fresh red snapper, also called rockfish, is plentiful but boring, and we occasionally see Alaskan ling cod. But that's it.

Fact #3: At the moment, for health reasons my proteins are restricted to chicken and fish. I have tried every frozen fish available here and found them all unacceptable including ono, tuna, swordfish, marlin and mahi mahi. IQF my foot: it's still fishy. And, usually, no matter how you cook it, dry.

So, desperate, I recently succombed to a whole filet of fresh but farmed steelhead trout--it was just so darned pretty and vibrant looking, being an exceptionally bright orange-y color with reassuring layers of the kind of fat that develops in very cold waters. I swathed it with olive oil then laid on a tidy layer of Vignalta salt, dried dill, and fresh garlic and put it in a 300 F oven to bake for 30 minutes. Every bite was velvet-tender and delicious. Farmed or not, that IS what good fish should taste like.

I bought my farmed filet at the local upscale chain Haggens, but a store in another end of town. Last week I asked the store closer to me how come they didn't also carry the steelhead. The woman who runs the department said it doesn't sell. She even had it on special last week and ended up throwing most of it out. "Our shoppers won't buy farmed fish of any kind. They'd rather eat frozen, as long as its wild."

Thinking ahead, as a practical matter, how much longer can we insist on wild fish anyway? The Japanese are eating all the tuna, and the rest of us seem to demand more fresh fish than the ocean can sustainably provide. Eventually, aren't we all going to have to eat farmed fish?
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Carl Eppig

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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Carl Eppig » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:55 pm

Back in this neck of the woods farmed salmon wasn't always that bad. The problem was you had to know what farm it was coming from, and that was difficult. Now you don't have to worry, it is all owned by one outfit including all the U.S. and Canadian East Coast farms, and the stuff could kill you quite easily.

We do get excellent farmed mussels though. They also come from both U.S. and Canadian farms, but to the best of my knowledge are pretty well controlled.

Farmed shrimp is another story. We have tried them from various sources and found them all to be limpid and fishy. We will only get wild ones. We have a good stock now as well joined the rush during the oil spill, and still have some in the freezer. Meanwhile they are back in the stores at about the same price as before. I never reach for the shrimp on a buffet table, as they are always farm raised.
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Robin Garr

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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Robin Garr » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:15 pm

I don't have all the info at hand, Jenise, but I think among us we can probably get it. It's not the farming per se, as I understand it, but the locale and the sustainability practices (versus the greed) of the industry.

Atlantic farmed salmon has become notorious and is on most people's boycott lists; its environmental abuse and lousy taste and texture go hand in hand.

Southeast Asian farmed shrimp are also a good choice for no-buy.

But I don't think you can judge all farmed fish equally. It sounds as if you've found a responsible source, and that's great. The Monterey Bay Aquarium's guide (available as an iPhone applet and online) lists many farmed fish options as desirable. Farmed abalone, Arctic char, barramundi, US catfish, US cobia, clams, mussels and oysters are all listed as "best choice," and that's just on a quick glance down the first part of a long list. You'll be delighted to know that farmed US rainbow trout also makes the "best choice" list. :)

But international cobia and imported barramundi farmed in "open systems" are on the "Avoid" list, as is all farmed salmon, world-wide.

So, again, using "farmed" as a litmus test isn't sufficient. You have to look it up.

Here's the Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch page online:
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/seafoodwatch.aspx
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Hoke » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:39 pm

What Robin said.

Thanks to the excellent work of the Seafood Watch and SOS people, it's not as dire as it was looking for a while.

We've proved that there can be responsible sustainable fishing practices (no thanks to the Japanese though, who continue to be significantly unconcerned that their practices today are hurting the chances of having fish to eat tomorrow; and let us not forget the whales as well), and that these can conserve the wild fishes for longer than we thought possible.

Heck, because of that you can still see the Patagonian Toothfish (aka "Sea Bass") occasionally pop back onto the 'okay' list.

Seafood Watch continues to be the best monitor of what's good.

One point I'd definitely support Robin on: Asian shrimp. Especially Vietnamese shrimp. They are notorious. They dig small ponds, seed with shrimp, harvest, harvest, harvest, until the stagnant pond becomes a soupy cesspit of shrimp, shrimp waste, and dead shrimp, then having exhausted the pond, they move just down the beach and dig another pond. Wouldn't touch the stuff for anything.

Guess I'm lucky that I got "over-salmoned" years ago...all those restaurants serving mediocre salmon as the obligatory fish dish of the day, dontcha know----so I rarely eat it anymore. And then only when it is char-grilled, or possibly served in Thai restaurants.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Mark Lipton » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:08 pm

Jenise,
To jump onto the bandwagon, not all farmed fish is equally bad -- either for the environment or for your taste buds -- as you've discovered. The key difference between farmed Atlantic salmon and your farmed trout is that salmon is an anadromous fish that can't be retained in a lake or otherwise enclosed water system. In general, all freshwater fish make decent farmed fish, so you could also groove on some tilapia, assuming that you found its taste anything other than insipid :D As Robin said, even "Chilean sea bass" can be OK with the Seawatch folks, as I discovered recently from a lengthy discussion with my local fishmonger.

Good luck with your fish,
Mark Lipton
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Jenise » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:25 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:Jenise,
To jump onto the bandwagon, not all farmed fish is equally bad -- either for the environment or for your taste buds -- as you've discovered. The key difference between farmed Atlantic salmon and your farmed trout is that salmon is an anadromous fish that can't be retained in a lake or otherwise enclosed water system. In general, all freshwater fish make decent farmed fish, so you could also groove on some tilapia, assuming that you found its taste anything other than insipid :D As Robin said, even "Chilean sea bass" can be OK with the Seawatch folks, as I discovered recently from a lengthy discussion with my local fishmonger.

Good luck with your fish,
Mark Lipton


Yeah, I kinda knew that but had never had any luck with any myself so quit trying. I don't care for tilapia for the reason you mention, and I tried some other Vietnamese fish with a B name, might have been the Barramundi Robin mentioned but I don't specifically remember the name. Oh wait, something more like 'basa' rings a bell but I'm really not sure. Whatever, it was horrible. So I'd just settled into buying only fresh in season--and it's a long wait between seasons! I'm most grateful to discover the steelhead and learn from you guys that it's a safe farmed fish--thank you!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Karen/NoCA » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:42 pm

I've relied a lot on the Monterey Bay Aquarium folks to steer me the right direction with fish. I've stayed away from farm raised after hearing horror stories about bacteria, how they feed them, dye the meat with what they ingest to make it look pinker, redder, etc. I have to say that the farm raised Salmon I've gotten from Costco has been great, and by the way it sells, other folks think so too. I try and stay with the Alaskan wild caught. I feel very lucky to have the quality of fish here that we do, but then the coast is not that far away. I grew up in Eureka and our family ate lots of fish. Most of it caught the day we ate it, so I think my taste buds are a little educated with how fish should taste, cook, look. AThanks for reminding me again, to track the MBA and their suggestions on what to eat and not eat.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Robin Garr » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:20 pm

Jenise wrote:I tried some other Vietnamese fish with a B name, might have been the Barramundi Robin mentioned but I don't specifically remember the name. Oh wait, something more like 'basa' rings a bell but I'm really not sure. Whatever, it was horrible.

Basa is Vietnamese, and as I understand it, it's in the catfish family. If you hate catfish, you'll probably hate basa. :P Basa can be good, though. We have an outstanding Vietnamese fusion restaurant here that wears the moniker with pride.

Barramundi is Australian, a game fish more akin to sea bass (I think) and should taste good. I'm pretty sure it's not farmed.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Carl Eppig » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:52 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:The key difference between farmed Atlantic salmon and your farmed trout is that salmon is an anadromous fish that can't be retained in a lake or otherwise enclosed water system. Mark Lipton


Not quite right Mark. Surely you've heard of land locked Salmon. If you haven't you're welcome to come on by, we have a whole lake full of 'em practically within a stone's throw from here. The problem with farm raised salmon as I posted above is how they are farmed. They can be farmed safely and wholesomely in the right size enclosure in the right place, with the right techniques. When all the above are absent you get lousy if not dangerous fish to eat.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Mark Lipton » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:13 pm

Carl Eppig wrote:
Mark Lipton wrote:The key difference between farmed Atlantic salmon and your farmed trout is that salmon is an anadromous fish that can't be retained in a lake or otherwise enclosed water system. Mark Lipton


Not quite right Mark. Surely you've heard of land locked Salmon. If you haven't you're welcome to come on by, we have a whole lake full of 'em practically within a stone's throw from here. The problem with farm raised salmon as I posted above is how they are farmed. They can be farmed safely and wholesomely in the right size enclosure in the right place, with the right techniques. When all the above are absent you get lousy if not dangerous fish to eat.


I wondered if someone was gonna call me on that, Carl. I actually caught some landlocked salmon in Lake Michigan last summer, so yes they do exist. As I understand it, though, it's very difficult to farm salmon in a landlocked environment and keep them healthy (they are far more susceptible to disease in fresh water). The ones in Lake Michigan behave as if they were anadromous by migrating from the Lake to rivers and streams in Wisconsin and maybe Michigan, which may somehow keep them healthier. How yours fare there in NH I have no idea.

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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Carl Eppig » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:43 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:How yours fare there in NH I have no idea. Mark Lipton


Lake Winnipesaukee has had a good population of them for decades. I'm not sure exactly where they spawn.

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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Mark Willstatter » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:02 pm

Assuming this is something similar to what are called "kokanee" in the West - land-locked sockeye salmon - they do indeed treat a lake as their "ocean" and return to streams feeding the lake to spawn. In other words, their behavior is identical to ocean-going salmon only they do their thing in fresh water.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Paul Winalski » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:08 pm

I don't like any fish of any kind (detest the aroma, flavor, and texture), so perhaps I can provide an outsider's perspective.

In a world populated by six billion people and growing exponentially, you can kiss wild fish goodbye, literally and figuratively. A lot of the major wild fisheries have already collapsed (e.g., Atlantic cod). The rest will follow suit.

For those of you who wish to eat fish, farmed fish is the only long-term viable alternative. So get used to it, and insist that the farming practices encourage both ecological goodness and an emphasis on flavor. We've achieved this with domesticated land animals. Why can't it also be done with fish?

-Paul W.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:03 am

Fish is extremely popular fare throughout the Mediterranean Basin and Israel is no exception to that rule. What may be a bit unusual is that tiny little Israel is one of the world leaders in the development of viable and environmentally friendly fish farming. Among the fish farmed here are red and white fleshed talapia (known locally as St. Peter's fish); brown and rainbow trout; small mouth bass; salmon and ... hold your breath ...sturgeon.

Pond raised salmon are limited in growth to about 1.5-2 kilos and are intended for cooking either as fillets or whole; and sturgeon, raised to 4 kilos are not farmed for their roe but entirely for their flesh.

Experiments were also done with fish raised in cages in the Red Sea (the Gulf of Aquaba if one prefers) but those proved a threat to the wild fish in the area as well as to the coral beds and has been discontinued.

As to quality - all of the pond farmed fish are available both fresh and frozen. Even though freezing uses the most modern technology I avoid those because they take on a remarkably similar texture and flavor one to the other and because their flesh looses its natural texture. On the other hand, purchased fresh at fishmongers they can be delicious.

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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Jenise » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:57 pm

Daniel Rogov wrote:Fish is extremely popular fare throughout the Mediterranean Basin and Israel is no exception to that rule. What may be a bit unusual is that tiny little Israel is one of the world leaders in the development of viable and environmentally friendly fish farming. Among the fish farmed here are red and white fleshed talapia (known locally as St. Peter's fish); brown and rainbow trout; small mouth bass; salmon and ... hold your breath ...sturgeon.

Pond raised salmon are limited in growth to about 1.5-2 kilos and are intended for cooking either as fillets or whole; and sturgeon, raised to 4 kilos are not farmed for their roe but entirely for their flesh.

Experiments were also done with fish raised in cages in the Red Sea (the Gulf of Aquaba if one prefers) but those proved a threat to the wild fish in the area as well as to the coral beds and has been discontinued.

As to quality - all of the pond farmed fish are available both fresh and frozen. Even though freezing uses the most modern technology I avoid those because they take on a remarkably similar texture and flavor one to the other and because their flesh looses its natural texture. On the other hand, purchased fresh at fishmongers they can be delicious.

Best
Rogov


Interesting factoids, Rogov. If there's anyone I would trust to raise fish in a clean manner, it would be Israel. What's sturgeon like? I've only had it smoked, and when once I remarked on that to someone they said that if I'd ever had it not smoked I'd know. Maybe the key is harvesting them small where the typical Columbia River sturgeon is 30 pounds or so.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Hoke » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:30 pm

Surprised you haven't had sturgeon, Jenise, what with your interest in all things food, and your becoming a PacNorwester. As you pointed out, there's sturgeon in the local river systems, and it's fairly common to find sturgeon at the local fishmongers.

Sturgeon is pretty good smoked; I think it lends itself to that treatment. I only eat regular sturgeon grilled;it does have that wild meat---you can't really call it 'gamy', can you, since it's not red meat, but if fish could be called gamy, sturgeon would be---character to it. Full-flavored, very firm, fairly dense and meaty, and can handle sauces and fruit/veggie/spice chopped salsas and garnishes pretty well.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Jenise » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:01 pm

Would have jumped at the opportunity, Hoke. But honestly, I've not seen it. Might be available in Seattle but Bellingham is ridiculously provincial and limited in the fish department. People would rather buy frozen salmon once a week than try anything unusual just because it's fresh. I've even been to Anthony's in the winter desperate for diversity but they're as bad as the supermarkets. Only fresh sturgeon I can recall knowing about is what a friend caught down there last year on a buddy trip and I remember that his wife wasn't excited about what Ron was bringing home. Let me call them...okay, yeah, I remember right. "It just doesn't have much flavor," Ron said, "A lot of people say oh its better than halibut but I just thought it was plain and boring. Maybe I caught a bad one."
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Mark Lipton » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:23 pm

Jenise wrote: What's sturgeon like? I've only had it smoked, and when once I remarked on that to someone they said that if I'd ever had it not smoked I'd know. Maybe the key is harvesting them small where the typical Columbia River sturgeon is 30 pounds or so.


Jenise,
As luck would have it, I had AFAIK my first taste of non-smoked sturgeon meat last weekend at Jean Joho's Everest restaurant in Chicago. In this case, it was sturgeon that had been wrapped in a mild sauerkraut (I should probably call it choucroute :wink: ) and a thin slice of Prosciutto and then baked. It was heavenly. The sturgeon meat was firm and white-fleshed, somewhat like swordfish.

Mark Lipton
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Daniel Rogov » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:46 pm

Jenise, Hi...

The small sturgeon we recive here are often served en sarcophage and are lovely that way. Some are also destined for smoking and to my own taste are at their very best that way. When smoked best cut in relatively thick slices and served spooned over with craime frache or would you believe thinly sliced and served on a bagel with cream cheese much as one would do with smoked salmon.

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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Jenise » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:22 pm

Daniel Rogov wrote:Jenise, Hi...

The small sturgeon we recive here are often served en sarcophage and are lovely that way. Some are also destined for smoking and to my own taste are at their very best that way. When smoked best cut in relatively thick slices and served spooned over with craime frache or would you believe thinly sliced and served on a bagel with cream cheese much as one would do with smoked salmon.

Best
Rogov


I would definitely believe that--I've substituted many smoked fish for salmon in that preparation. And I will be forever fond of smoked sturgeon as it was the first time I ever had it, served with creme fraiche on hot, crisp potato galettes at Spago. Delightful.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Jeff Grossman » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:21 am

Oh, yes, sturgeon on a bagel w/schmear is great.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Hoke » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:16 pm

That Spago dish does sound good.

I'm a lover of smoked trout. Sol, owner of one of my favorite restaurants in Sonoma, La Haye, keeps that consistently on his app menu because it's a family/childhood fave of his, and it is reliably delicious with a mild horseradishy sauce.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Jenise » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:34 pm

Hoke wrote:That Spago dish does sound good.

I'm a lover of smoked trout. Sol, owner of one of my favorite restaurants in Sonoma, La Haye, keeps that consistently on his app menu because it's a family/childhood fave of his, and it is reliably delicious with a mild horseradishy sauce.


Oh I adore smoked trout too. Rarely see it, though. Reminds me of another great 'first': smoked trout on a warm leek mousse served with a good burgundy--in Burgundy! I've copied it many times, though not with trout. Not a fish I ever around here, though with all these lakes and streams around one would think it prime trout territory.
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Re: Revisiting farmed fish

by Rahsaan » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:45 pm

Jenise wrote:Oh I adore smoked trout too. Rarely see it, though.


Really? It might not be the top-of-the-top-of-the-line, but all the Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and all sorts of similar stores here on the East Coast carry Duck Trap Smoked Trout, Mackerel, Salmon. They are serviceable if not premium, depends how picky you want to be. (And depends on the fish). The brand is so widespread it makes me suspicious, but I guess it's still only regional (they're based in Maine).
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