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Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

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Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Jenise » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:47 pm

Julia Child famously went to France with her new husband Paul and ordered sole meuniere for lunch. The perfectly cooked fish, and probably the wine that went with it, supposedly lit the passion for food that changed her life. (I haven't seen the movie yet, so forgive me if I am oversimplifying here.)

Was there a meal in your past that did something similar for you, albeit with much more modest consequences?

There was for me. I was 24 years old and living in England on foreign assignment for our American employer, a situation that requires one to leave the country after six months and re-enter on a new visa. For our "turn-around weekend", we chose Paris. I had never been to Paris before, and though totally engrossed by all things food I was generally inexperienced and too intimidated by linguistic limitations to attempt making reservations at any famed eateries. And so it was that one night, just walking about, we came across ten or twenty people lined up outside a humble little white-tablecloth neighborhood restaurant from whence great aromas were wafting. Riveted by my nose and with no conflicting plans, we joined the queue with no idea what we were in for.

I ordered my meal by pointing at the plates of others.

The salad: a large clear glass bowl came to the table holding enough greens for two. I had never been served this way before. The greens were icy cold, crisp and well mixed in a time when American restaurants, at least on the west coast, didn't mix lettuces. The leaves were large, some left whole--again, in my world, brand new. The dressing was the classic French olive oil/vinegar/mustard emulsion--I had never had mustard in a dressing before, nor an emulsion. It was the best salad I'd ever eaten.

The main course: rare roast beef. A thick slab for each of us, heavily seasoned on the outside and perfectly tender and flavorful within. I have no idea what cut it was, but the only rare roast beef in my life had been prime rib and this didn't seem to be that, nor was it filet, and whatever it was I loved it. A separate gratin pan of potatoes was served on the side. This gratin had not been cooked earlier in the day and reheated, but rather had just been removed from the oven and seemingly rushed to our table, the cream still bubbling under the brown crust that had formed in the oven. Flavored with nothing more than salt and a kiss of garlic, it was again for me another first as gratins had not yet entered my life, let alone anything so rich and wonderful as this. And there was no vegetable. Much as I love vegetables, I did not miss having one with this meal but it was shockingly provocative, nonetheless, to someone so sold on the merits of the Food Pyramid as represented in the standard American three-plop presentation, to have my meal pared down this way.

Dessert: cherries. Big, crisp, cold, reddish purple cherries. No pie, no cake, no goopy creams, no pastry, no adornment of any kind, just a simple bowl of perfect fresh cherries. Another revelation this, that one could order fresh fruit in a restaurant, that fresh fruit in fact could be so elegant as to be served in a restaurant and be given the same respect as the work of any pattisserie.

With all this, a bottle of good red wine though I have no idea what it was, my wine epiphany not having arrived yet.

So there you have it: a great simple meal, so simple that now all these years later it seems almost quirkily homey, but it was nonetheless one so honest and perfect of ingredient and execution, one so full of new ideas and I don't know how else to put this, but permissions, it was life-changing. And more to the point, it showed me how painfully little I understood about world food and how much there was yet to learn. As soon as I got back to England, I enrolled in a Cordon Bleu class.

If there was a meal like this in your life, please share your story!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Karen/NoCA » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:43 pm

I have not had "just one" memorable meal that seemingly changed the way I think about food, but several events that opened my eyes to the world of food. A trip to Mexico with two other couples, opened the world of good seafood to me. We fished the area of Bacochibampo Bay while staying in Guaymas. I have never had such wonderful seafood in my life, especially the shrimp in some great restaurants. It was all I ate. From that trip, I came home and vowed to learn to cook good seafood and try lots of different fish.

A trip to see Peggy Bucholtz in Oro Valley, AZ, and we dined for lunch at Versace (something like that) where I had a marvelous plate of roasted veggies. Red bell pepper, spinach, asparagus, bread, grilled cheese, it was all so perfectly done and opened my eyes to roasting and grilling veggies, and learning how to season each individually.

A great picnic with Linda Stradley and Peggy, when Peggy still lived in OR. They took us on a marvelous picnic, great wine,cheese, grapes, pate, small bites of things that were perfect and complimentary. It led me away from the typical picnic fare even with children along, one can create a sophistication of great tastes for all to enjoy.

This one is really silly, and to this day, I don't know why it has stuck with me. An impromptu dinner invitation from a neighbor for grilled hamburgers. That was it, with a few nibbles as sides, which I cannot recall. That was the best hamburger I have ever had. Simple, no sauce, no nothing fancy, but the burger was fabulous. She has no clue as to the type of burger she had or where she got it. I've never forgotten it. I still strive to make a great burger and have had some marvelous ones at home...but never as good as that one. Could it be that I just did not have to cook?

Jenise, I loved you story and I have to say, that to this day, a good steak, potato, and salad meal is still very special to us. While I love most all foods, there is something about this combo that never losses appeal to us.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Jeff Grossman » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:17 am

Jenise, I don't believe I've ever had a life-changing moment like that. I have been nudged and poked, at various times, and took up the challenges eagerly.

Strangely, or perhaps not so, the least of the culinary influences on me was my mother. She really didn't make anything special, though she knew good restaurants. Once we went to Paris and we had dinner at La Tour d'Argent. (I remember the experience but not the meal.)

My high school French teacher was a dynamo and I made a truffled terrine for one of her culture classes. (I also distilled flower essences for her perfume class, made shadow puppets for her theater class, etc.) In the last year of high school she also arranged a trip for ten students to go to Paris and we went to some good restaurants. (I think the first one was Le Lord? What really stands out is the Poire Williams that was poured over my sorbet.)

While in grad school I shared a house with a woman who did not eat red meat. I am a happy carnivore but, in support of keeping tensions low, I found a good fish store and made fish every time it was my turn to cook. Practice makes perfect.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Bonnie in Holland » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:21 am

I grew up in Southern California on Mexican food a la Taco Bell. At 18, I went off to college and started to hang out with Los Angeles savvy folks. They knew the places to go to -- an eye-opener to this Orange County kid, that's for sure. We would often end up taking the San Bernadino Freeway from Claremont into Los Angeles right about sunset, when the sky was glowing with color. Our destination was Mexican food....El Tepeyac in Boyle Heights. That's where I learned about real Mexican food. The light went on one night there over a plate of succulent chile rellenos. Never looked back - this was the cuisine to fill my heart and soul. It was the same night the lovely waitress Peggy brought us the bill, I saw she hadn't charged us for the butter with the tortillas (on purpose, as it turned out) and let her know so she could charge us the right amount -- at which point she told me that I would go to heaven (and meant it!). Very memorable. cheers, Bonnie
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Mike Filigenzi » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:53 am

Bonnie in Holland wrote:I grew up in Southern California on Mexican food a la Taco Bell. At 18, I went off to college and started to hang out with Los Angeles savvy folks. They knew the places to go to -- an eye-opener to this Orange County kid, that's for sure. We would often end up taking the San Bernadino Freeway from Claremont into Los Angeles right about sunset, when the sky was glowing with color. Our destination was Mexican food....El Tepeyac in Boyle Heights. That's where I learned about real Mexican food. The light went on one night there over a plate of succulent chile rellenos. Never looked back - this was the cuisine to fill my heart and soul. It was the same night the lovely waitress Peggy brought us the bill, I saw she hadn't charged us for the butter with the tortillas (on purpose, as it turned out) and let her know so she could charge us the right amount -- at which point she told me that I would go to heaven (and meant it!). Very memorable. cheers, Bonnie


Which of the colleges did you go to, Bonnie?
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Barb Downunder » Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:27 am

I think for me it was a very simple moment and a very simple dish. I was 21 yo, in Rome, on my own. I returned to my very modest pensionne for the lunch and the pasta dish was the classic Spaghetti Aglio e Olio (well I know that now of course then it was 'pasta'). Ever so simple but a revelation for me, perfectly cooked pasta, good oil, the right amount of garlic and a mystery ingredient that took me years to identify!!
Thus began the journey.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Matilda L » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:30 am

I was eighteen, maybe nineteen, and went with two friends to Western Australia to stay with a much-liked mentor and teacher who had moved interstate to teach at a different college. I'd grown up in the country, with Mum's country cooking. I'd never eaten any meat that wasn't well-done, and when the host removed our main course from the oven, I wasn't sure I could eat it. A rolled roast of beef ... stuffed with fresh herbs ... rare ... very rare ... almost blue. Still, determined to be polite and willing to try anything, I bit into it. From that moment, I was converted! Rare roast beef became a favourite. And I think that moment marked the beginning of my forming my own tastes in food. In a sense, it was when I gave myself permission to explore, try things, be different from what I was used to. Our host died a small number of years ago, an elderly man. I often think of him fondly. I learned a lot in his classes. I don't think I ever thanked him, though, for changing the way I thought about food.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by ChefJCarey » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:54 am

Jenise, your epiphany meal sounds like something I eat at least once per week. :)

My sole meuniere moment came around the time I sauteed my 10,000th order of it in San Francisco.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Shel T » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:28 pm

It wasn't a defining moment for me either. I too, was a product of the "American model", cuisine-wise and although growing up in L.A., did get to several restos with eye-opening cuisine, it wasn't until I arrived in London for a "short stay" and subsequently stayed 17 years, that I was exposed to what wonderful cuisine was all about.
Exploring the few good restos that London had at that time and trips to Paris, Brussels, Rome, the South of France etc. introed me to the infinite ways and varieties of how great food could be. Of course I was also a 'wine boob', so it was with great pleasure and determination that I "plunged" into its multitude of mysterious vats!
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Jenise » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:54 pm

ChefJCarey wrote:Jenise, your epiphany meal sounds like something I eat at least once per week. :)


Well, d'oh. But you didnt have it in Indiana!

My sole meuniere moment came around the time I sauteed my 10,000th order of it in San Francisco.


:) Begs a question, though: Is there a dish you cooked so much in your professional life that you never ever want to see it again?
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Jenise » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:58 pm

Bonnie in Holland wrote:I grew up in Southern California on Mexican food a la Taco Bell.


Where in Orange County? I grew up in Whittier--plenty of good Mex food nearby, and not that far from L.A.'s Chinatown for good Chinese food, too. Btw, the first Taco Bell in Whittier had a little Mexican woman who came in every day to make the refried beans--from dried beans. Hard to imagine now, but there was a time when even fast food wasn't quite so fast.
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Howie Hart » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:32 am

I had a BBQ epiphany in 1993. The company I was working for at the time flew a group of us from Niagara Falls to their Beaumont, TX plant to put on a presentation about a cost-savings project we completed. The lunch served at the presentation was catered by a local BBQ place (Doug Nelson's). I was in heaven and never had anything before to approach those smoked beef ribs. When I explained why I was 10 minutes late for starting my presentation because I was enraptured with the ribs, I received a standing ovation from the Texas crowd. 8)
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Bonnie in Holland » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:17 am

Jenise, I grew up in Westminster and then Anaheim. OC never really agreed with me, so I left as soon as possible (immigrated to Claremont at the age of 18, then headed for parts north a couple years later). Yep, those were the days when Taco Bell was actually pretty good, heavy sigh. But, come to think of it, even Taco Bell these days sounds good to me, given the paltry state of 'Mexican' food here. Except for one place in Amsterdam that's run by two guys from Mexico City, there's nothing this side of London, unfortunately. Ah, well. cheers, Bonnie
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Jenise » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:40 am

Bonnie in Holland wrote:Jenise, I grew up in Westminster and then Anaheim. OC never really agreed with me, so I left as soon as possible (immigrated to Claremont at the age of 18, then headed for parts north a couple years later). Yep, those were the days when Taco Bell was actually pretty good, heavy sigh. But, come to think of it, even Taco Bell these days sounds good to me, given the paltry state of 'Mexican' food here. Except for one place in Amsterdam that's run by two guys from Mexico City, there's nothing this side of London, unfortunately. Ah, well. cheers, Bonnie


Westminster! Pretty shoddy place these days--just a place to pass through--and it's best asset is the thriving Vietnamese community. When I lived in Huntington Beach I shopped and ate in Little Saigon often.

Re Mexican food in Holland, friends and I were talking about the various meanings of the word 'tortilla' (Mexican vs. Spanish), which caused me to describe (to everyone's amusement) the strange offering called 'tortilla' that's fairly ubiquitous at Dutch take-out food counters, the kind you find in green grocers and some butchers. I remember asking my Dutch host about them, and he replied, "Oh, that's Mexican food!" to which I responded, laughing, "Oh no it's not!" (For those looking on, this would be a flour tortilla stuffed (with I'm not actually sure what), rolled, then swathed with what looks like tomato sauce and garnished with a few flecks of grated orange cheese and maybe a slice or two of canned black olive.) I take it they've not managed to convince you that this should satisfy your Mex fix?
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Cheese sandwich!

by Rahsaan » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:19 pm

I don't know if this qualifies as an epiphany moment since it didn't change the entire way I look at gastronomy. But, like many Americans I was deeply impressed by my first trip to Europe.

I was an undergrad studying abroad in Belgium and I was interested in food so I was excited to try different things. One of the first and simplest things that caught my attention was the simple cheese sandwich. Perfect bread, flavorful Gouda cheese, real mustard, and simply garnished with lettuce and shredded carrots. As a student, this type of food was quite common but the cacophony of toppings one finds in America were quite different. Plus the intensity and flavor of the bread and the cheese were different. So when I first had this sandwich I felt like it was the perfect sandwich for me and was the sandwich I had been searching for all my life even though I didn't know it existed. Sounds a bit dramatic sure, but those were the thoughts that literally went through my head.

Going back through Belgium in recent years with a more critical and developed palate I can now point out the flaws in many of those sandwiches. But, it was the gateway experience for my exposure to European food and still sticks very strongly in my memory because of the emotions involved. I had similar experiences with my first trip to Asia but none that stick so deeply in my memory as this one.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Carrie L. » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:15 pm

Great subject, Jenise.

I've had a few. The first when I was about 19 and dating an extremely sophisticated 25 year old guy from Caracas. He was well-healed, and well-traveled and took me to some amazing restaurants and introduced me to things like Oysters Rockefeller, Steak Diane, Lobster Thermador, and Bananas Foster. He opened my eyes to a lot and had a lot of influence on my future style, despite only being together about a year. Thank goodness it didn't last or I'd be bigger than a house.
Okay, so that was my "Sole Meunier Year," not necessarily moment...

If I had to choose a moment, it would be a trip to Europe in which I spent a few days at the home of my former boss, a Belgian, and his wife. I spent one of the days sightseeing in Brugge and came back to their home after they had already eaten. His wife, a lovely woman, asked if I would like some leftover spaghetti Bolognese she had made. I said that would be wonderful since I hadn't had dinner. She asked if I'd like some wine. I said that would be lovely if she had some open. "No trouble," she said, going down the steps to the wine cellar. She came back up with an amazing Bordeau that was at least 25 years old. I remember seeing the label and pleading with her not to open it just for me. She said she'd have a little with me while I ate. The Bolognese was like nothing I'd ever tasted. The tender meat, delicate sauce. I was transformed forever. But what stuck with me the most was the "European way" of relaxing with a good bottle of wine, amazing food and not needing a special occasion for either. This was just late night "leftovers." These people had tremendous influence on me.

All of this aside, I saw the movie last night and am still smiling from it. Loved every minute of it and felt it ended too soon. You must go.
Hello. My name is Carrie, and I...I....still like oaked Chardonnay. (Please don't judge.)
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Jeff Grossman » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:04 pm

Steak Diane! Yoicks. Yet another dish I made as a teenager... and not much since.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by ChefJCarey » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:39 am

Jenise wrote:
ChefJCarey wrote:Jenise, your epiphany meal sounds like something I eat at least once per week. :)


Well, d'oh. But you didnt have it in Indiana!

My sole meuniere moment came around the time I sauteed my 10,000th order of it in San Francisco.


:) Begs a question, though: Is there a dish you cooked so much in your professional life that you never ever want to see it again?


Not a dish so much as an item.

First, let me say this. I absolutely love being here in the Pacific Northwest. The availability - and proximity - of truly amazing foods and wines is even greater than I anticipated. With one very surprising exception.

Seafood. There is a very real paucity of varieties. Even in excellent restaurants I see only three or four fresh local fish available. Salmon and halibut are ever present. Fortunately shellfish, which I usually prefer to fish, are available in both great variety and quantity.

The problem here is the salmon. It's everywhere. And that's the thing.

It was not unusual for me during a typical day cheffing in a Bay Area restaurant to fillet 8 to 10, 16-20 pound salmon. Sometimes more. That went on for a decade and a half. I smelled of salmon. I was covered in salmon scales. I removed thousands and thousands of bones. I made enough salmon stock and salmon quiche to feed the Roman army. I skinned enough salmon to outfit a brigade of hookers with salmon skin boots and garter belts. I looked enough decapitated salmon heads straight in the eye to provide a lifetime of nightmares to a stronger man than I.

I grilled it. I sauteed it. I poached it. I baked it. I made coulibiac with it.

I continued teaching fish-filleting/butchering/dressing 101 and 102 for all the years at the school. Frequently with salmon. I come up with signature dishes involving salmon.

I've whacked up just about every kind of fish you can think of (no fugu) and none of them ever got to me the way the salmon has.

As a matter of fact, I've probably filleted nearly as much halibut - some weighing over 100 pounds - but it never quite got to me like the salmon did in the end.

There I've said it. I feel a lot better.

Alice loves salmon. I haven't touched one since I've been in Oregon.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Barb Freda » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:39 pm

I don't have any one moment that provides such an epiphany, but I DO remember my first sole meuniere. It was in Spain, and it was incredible.

I have memories like that..the skate in brown butter sauce I ate in Bretagne on my honeymoon. Some venison in Spain. A pork chop with honey and lavendar once. ice cream so rich I couldn't finish it. My mom's spaghetti and meatballs. My first "big" dish, chicken kiev. Making soup out of a jack o lantern pumpkin one year bec. I was curious (I knew nothing about pie/sugar pumpkins)...Liking tomatoes when I discovered them truly vine ripened. My first peas eaten raw out of a pod...

Mmm.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by ChefJCarey » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:24 am

Where the hell are you salmon lovers?
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Jeff Grossman » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:47 am

Here, Chef, here. I like salmon. Wild is better than farmed, by a lot. Best preps are: over charcoal, seared in a really hot pan (so that the skin gets crisp), and sushi.

I agree that the fish is, shall we say, over served. And the farmed stuff is nearly tasteless.

(Anyway, I thought the best defense was a good offense? :wink: )
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by ChefJCarey » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:05 am

Jeff Grossman/NYC wrote:Here, Chef, here. I like salmon. Wild is better than farmed, by a lot. Best preps are: over charcoal, seared in a really hot pan (so that the skin gets crisp), and sushi.

I agree that the fish is, shall we say, over served. And the farmed stuff is nearly tasteless.

(Anyway, I thought the best defense was a good offense? :wink: )


Thanks, Jeff. I seem to have a knack for shutting threads down. I can take no credit for it. It's genetic, I'm sure. :)
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Re: Cheese sandwich!

by Jenise » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:49 pm

Rahsaan wrote: Perfect bread, flavorful Gouda cheese, real mustard, and simply garnished with lettuce and shredded carrots. As a student, this type of food was quite common but the cacophony of toppings one finds in America were quite different. Plus the intensity and flavor of the bread and the cheese were different. So when I first had this sandwich I felt like it was the perfect sandwich for me and was the sandwich I had been searching for all my life even though I didn't know it existed. Sounds a bit dramatic sure, but those were the thoughts that literally went through my head.


Getting back to this late, but this is exactly what I was talking about: everything familiar but all the parts so excellent and well chosen that it was new again and a turning point you still look back on.
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Re: Your 'sole meuniere' moment?

by Mark Lipton » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:04 pm

Food epiphanies? So many, so often, that's it's more like a journey:

San Francisco sourdough bread at age 5
Eating real Cantonese food at age 6-7 and discovering a whole new world of seasonings and ingredients
Croissants in Paris at age 9
My first Indian meal in Berkeley at age 10-11 (did I say something about seasonings?)
A summer in Mexico at age 10 (Mole Poblano, Oaxacan food and hepatitis A)
Dinner at Chez Panisse at age 16
Southern smothered greens at age 12 or so
Thai food at Krung Thep in LA at age 20
Moroccan food at Dar Maghreb in LA at age 21
[...]
Jamaican jerk chicken at age 29
[...]
Dinner at El Celler de Can Roca at age 50

My most fervent wish is that the journey continue for many more decades :lol:

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