Sweaty cooks

[Jenise]

A few people here will remember Richard "El Lay" Morgan, with whom I was fortunate enough to share many good bottles of wine before he succumbed to lung cancer (same old story--smoked like a chimney). Our meals together were always as much about the food as the wine, with everyone in our little group contributing a dish or two. At one such meal, I remember watching Richard assemble some fussy little rolled appetizers on a hot day. He was bent over the prep surface, and the sweat was literally running in rivulets from his forehead onto the food.

I couldn't eat what he made.

That day came to mind last night as I watched an episode of Chopped in which one of the contestants sweated profusely. He used his sleeve to mop himself from time to time, but you can't cook with your arm on your forehead so inevitably the dishes he made would have caught that extra bit of seasoning. The judges gamely ate his dish, but I'd have been gagging.

Or making jokes about too much salt.

Am I the only one who would be bothered by this?

Sounds like I have to start watching this show. But, I would only be bothered if I'd seen it, of course. But, I don't think I'd be quite as bothered as the cook with a lit cigarette hanging from his mouth with ash about an inch long. I've seen ethat and by-passed my order. I once went to a dentist who smoked. While he was working on my teeth, he took a smoke break. Came back and put his nicotaine stained hands back in my mouth. Talk about gag reflex! Immediately found another dentist!

Am I the only one who would be bothered by this?

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. No, I would not *knowingly* eat something made under those conditions either.

I can agree about the cigarette ash--that stuff's carcinogenic. But sweat? One can be fastidious in the home kitchen, but read Bill Buford's Heat. He doesn't specifically address sweat dropping on meat, but I'm sure it happens on the line all the time in restaurant kitchens.

I've often wondered about that when I see sweaty cooks bending over food in food joints. A few months ago I was prepping a dish and chopping away when Gene walked in and said something to me. I was distracted for a second and cut off a corner of my fingernail. It ended up in the veggies somewhere. I was livid because I have asked him not to start talking to me when I am using the chef's knife. I had to start all over again with the chopping because I was prepping food for dinner guests. Even then, had it been just for us, I would have thrown it out. I wonder how many times one has eaten fingernails, skin or even a piece of finger flesh in a dish. Makes me gag just thinking about it.

Sounds like I have to start watching this show. But, I would only be bothered if I'd seen it, of course. But, I don't think I'd be quite as bothered as the cook with a lit cigarette hanging from his mouth with ash about an inch long. I've seen ethat and by-passed my order. I once went to a dentist who smoked. While he was working on my teeth, he took a smoke break. Came back and put his nicotine stained hands back in my mouth. Talk about gag reflex! Immediately found another dentist!

That is so totally unprofessional...what do smokers think...that the smoke cannot be detected! I almost had to fire a volunteer once who worked with police staff. No one in the unit smoked but him. Every morning when he came to work, he reeked of smoke. He'd take smoke breaks, and when he came back, the stench was terrible.

Karen, Hi....

With all due respect, do you respond that vehemently to people who have beer, wine, whiskey or other alcohol on their breath; an even moderate amount of perfume or after-shave on their faces or bodies; onion or garlic on the breath? To the best of my knowledge the consumption of each of those things (so long as certain qualifications are met) are quite legal.

Asked in the most friendly of manners.....

Best
Rogov

As I learned at deer camp when a teen - some things are better off not known.

Karen, Hi....

With all due respect, do you respond that vehemently to people who have beer, wine, whiskey or other alcohol on their breath; an even moderate amount of perfume or after-shave on their faces or bodies; onion or garlic on the breath? To the best of my knowledge the consumption of each of those things (so long as certain qualifications are met) are quite legal.

Asked in the most friendly of manners.....

Best
Rogov

I know you asked the question of Karen, Rogov, but I would like to hazard a response. I am a non-smoker, and have never had the urge to try a cigarette -- not even for the cool factor (which escapes me). But, I am married to a smoker -- who has smoked 36 of our 38 year marriage.

I think smokers don't have any idea of the offense of the stench of the weed on our olfactory senses. I am familiar with the malodorous affect of alcoholic beverages (especially on those who are seriously addicted and the smell of alcohol pours from their pores), garlic and onion breath, and even a little too much cologn on occasion (I absolutely hate the smell of patchouli). But, those pungent aromas pale in comparison to the noxious, acrid smell of a burnt cigarette. It's difficult to quite explain what it is about that residue that has a much more lasting effect that only worsens with time. There was a time when I did quite a bit of antiquing. The thing that amazed me the most was the smell of wood furniture that had resided in the home of a smoker. When I walked into the door of a shop I knew there was a piece on premises, and it was not difficult to sniff out the offending piece -- without much effort. I've never encountered a place or object where onions, garlic, parfumes have this lingering effect; although a wine barrel still smells of alcohol many years later if it has not been put to use as another vessel. But, if you are a serious drinker (alcoholic), your furniture will not tell your secret!

And, since we are celebrating March 14th on other areas of this forum, I'd like to give you smokers a hint that your significan other counterparts may not be willing to share. If you are a smoker and your partner is not, no amount of toothpaste is going to make a difference in the quality of your intimate encounter. The residual smell and effect of the burned weed has little to do with how clean your teeth are. And, believe me when I tell you, no matter how long you brush and how many times you gargle, neither will freshen your breath. The odor of the nicotine (and the other 170 carcenogenic ingredients) eminates from your gut, not your gums. The shampoo you use, no matter how perfumed, will not mask the smell of your cigarettes in your hair, no matter how long ago the last indulgence if you are a current smoker. And, if you have been smoking for awhile, you will probably notice quite a bit more phlegm and a few more colds than you used to experience a while back. You should be aware that some of that phlegm has taken up permanent residence on your tongue, and your kisses are no longer as sweet as they once were -- not even to the most committed, loyal and arduous partner. In addition, as you exhale through your nostrils, we inhale the smell of nicotine if the kiss is longer than a peck (that is also true of people who eat a lot of onions and garlic BTW).

Now -- although I am not a smoker, I don't complain about it. If I have options, I exercise them -- but I don't beat up smokers in the process. Quitting must be very difficult, and next to impossible for most. I feel for you. I love my husband and I gave up that battle of trying to get him to stop smoking many years ago. I insisted that he needed to smoke outside once our children were born. Intuitively I knew it could not be good for them (even before any studies about 2nd hand smoke). He has kept up that practice, for which I am grateful.

Just thought I might share. Thanks for hearing me out.

A few people here will remember Richard "El Lay" Morgan, with whom I was fortunate enough to share many good bottles of wine before he succumbed to lung cancer (same old story--smoked like a chimney).

I remember Richard "El Lay" from my freshman year(s) at FLDG University. He was always polite and willing to answer my questions, but I now think he was grinding his teeth anytime I asked him for clarification regarding some French recipe from 1742 that he posted on FLDG.

[Jenise]

Richard was a great guy, Dave; we adored him and were most perplexed when he seemed to just vanish. We looked for him but didn't have many clues to go on because none of us were really sure where he lived; he rented a small place in Torrance, and we wouldn't even know that except that one night his car went kaput and Bob and I gave him a lift home. I'm not sure how Hucko ever found out what happened. Do be assured that I remember him nothing but fondly, and I believe that on the day I wrote about here he was so intent on his task that he didn't even notice his own perspiration. It was only his bad luck to have a priss like me for a helper.

arduous

Oops! Wrong word here. Meant to spell ardorous. Sorry about that!

[Jenise]

Karen, Hi....

With all due respect, do you respond that vehemently to people who have beer, wine, whiskey or other alcohol on their breath; an even moderate amount of perfume or after-shave on their faces or bodies; onion or garlic on the breath? To the best of my knowledge the consumption of each of those things (so long as certain qualifications are met) are quite legal.

Asked in the most friendly of manners.....

Best
Rogov

Your question wasn't directed at me, but I'll bet she's going to answer no, and point out to you that the difference is that unlike the other vices you cite (not that someone reeking of whiskey would be working in a police station, the specific circumstance she mentioned), you surely understand the extend to which cigarette smoke permeates hair and clothing. People who smoke in their cars in particular tend to smell of their habit head to toe, and long-time smokers additionally broadcast an unpleasant, stale, rotting odor, as Jo Ann described, from deep within.

I'm working with a design firm who recently let an electrical/lighting specialist go in large part because of his smoking. This man is probably the type who sits up in bed in the morning and lights a cigarette before he stands up. Even without a cigarette in his hand, any stranger within six feet of him could tell he smoked. At this design firm, when he returned from deliveries or smoking breaks even those in the building not within eyesight or hearing distance of the door could smell from the recirculated air they all shared that Rick had just returned. Customers backed away in the store, and asked that he not come to their homes. Now I wasn't as fussy as all that, but I can tell you that the guy stunk and I dreaded having to share air space with him. And had I been the owner of that business, I'd have let him go too.

Methinks (in the spirit of true friendship) that the ladies may be protesting too loud.

Let us keep in mind that there was a time, not all that long ago, when nearly every hero and heroine of the movies, the stage, baseball, race car drivers, and the military smoked cigarettes; when it was considered a positive sign of independence for a woman to smoke in public; when the aroma of tobacco was considered a pleasant one; even when having one's portrait taken with a whisp of cigarette smoke coming from the mouth was thought to be quite appropriate.

I would suggest that a wise airline might consider offering international flights entirely for smokers; that as in Spain, fifty percent of the restaurants can declare themselves open to smokers (and non-smoker who want to join them of course), that pubs and bars be evenly divided into those for smokers and those for non-smokers.

I would also suggest a controlled experiment in which subjects were exposed to say a dozen people, six of whom smoked and six of whom did not, each dressed and groomed in their everyday manner I would not suggest that the subjects kiss each person but that they "sniff them". I somehow doubt that the objectors would prove quite as sensitive or accurate as they might think.

But then again, I too may be protesting too loud.

Best
Rogov

Karen, Hi....

With all due respect, do you respond that vehemently to people who have beer, wine, whiskey or other alcohol on their breath; an even moderate amount of perfume or after-shave on their faces or bodies; onion or garlic on the breath? To the best of my knowledge the consumption of each of those things (so long as certain qualifications are met) are quite legal.

Asked in the most friendly of manners.....

Best
Rogov

You are missing the point here. However, I learned long ago that trying to change the mind of a smoker or one who believes vehemently in smoker's rights is pointless. I much prefer to talk about food and all the wonderful aromas that cooking creates.....shall we get back to that?

...when the aroma of tobacco was considered a pleasant one

Karen is right, you are missing the point. With respect to the sentence above, the aroma of tobacco (before being lit) is not as offensive (I don't grow nicotiana in my garden because of the smell), but I have never heard a nonsmoker refer to the smell of tobacco as pleasant. That is most probably a description given by those who smoke.

I would also suggest a controlled experiment in which subjects were exposed to say a dozen people, six of whom smoked and six of whom did not, each dressed and groomed in their everyday manner I would not suggest that the subjects kiss each person but that they "sniff them". I somehow doubt that the objectors would prove quite as sensitive or accurate as they might think.

Every smoker believes this. I can assure you, you are wrong on this matter. This is not a condemnation. And, I agree with Karen. Let's talk about food!

Do be assured that I remember him nothing but fondly, and I believe that on the day I wrote about here he was so intent on his task that he didn't even notice his own perspiration. It was only his bad luck to have a priss like me for a helper.

Jenise,

You do not need to assure me or anyone else. We know you have a kind heart and it was actually his good luck to have someone like you as a helper that drove him home.

I feel bad that Richard never said anything about being ill. Not that it would have cured him, but I'm sure a number of us would have taken the opportunity to thank him and perhaps give him a laugh during those difficult times.

[Jenise]

I feel bad that Richard never said anything about being ill. Not that it would have cured him, but I'm sure a number of us would have taken the opportunity to thank him and perhaps give him a laugh during those difficult times.

I suspect he ignored certain symptoms and went downhill pretty fast. I know that the last time any of us saw him, he seemed a bit spaced outm, and after spending the night on someone's couch was oddly confused come morning. His hosts were very concerned about that; and he was never heard from again. Lung cancer that's already gone to the brain would explain this behavior, and there isn't much time left after that. But yeah, we're so sorry we weren't able to say goodbye and let him know how much he'd be missed.

[Jenise]

Let us keep in mind that there was a time, not all that long ago, when nearly every hero and heroine of the movies, the stage, baseball, race car drivers, and the military smoked cigarettes; when it was considered a positive sign of independence for a woman to smoke in public; when the aroma of tobacco was considered a pleasant one; even when having one's portrait taken with a whisp of cigarette smoke coming from the mouth was thought to be quite appropriate.

I adore you, Mr. Rogov, but I don't know what that has to do with anything. And I know I don't need to remind you that those romantic days were also a time, not all that long ago, when no one knew how harmful smoking was. But that doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about, either.

I would also suggest a controlled experiment in which subjects were exposed to say a dozen people, six of whom smoked and six of whom did not, each dressed and groomed in their everyday manner I would not suggest that the subjects kiss each person but that they "sniff them". I somehow doubt that the objectors would prove quite as sensitive or accurate as they might think.

Much as I would like to assist you with your delusion, I can't. 1) The aroma of cigarette smoke as it comes out of the cigarette and which can be attractive is distinctly different from the rancid, deep-body smell of the lifetime chain smoker that we girls, since you seem by calling out gender to imply this makes a difference, object to. 2) The stinkers still stink. Now, not every smoker seems to reek as much as others which probably has to do with some formula in which hygiene, laundry, confined-space smoking, one pack a day or three, and years as a smoker all play a part, but I can guarangoshdarntee you that Karen, Jo Ann and I would pick out the smokers in your test blindfolded. Remember, this isn't some militant, holy-roller objector talking here--I used to smoke too. So while I fully support your right to enjoy your habit, it doesn't change the fact that all non-smokers know--that smokers smell like smokers and some smell worse than others. If you were a non-smoker you'd realize the truth of it; but it seems that since you're not, you can't.

Another anecdote: one of my construction crew smokes. He only smokes outside, and about 50 feet from the house at that. And afterward he can walk that 50 feet into the house and out the back door, and for some time afterward I can smell that he's been in here even just momentarily. But he's not a reeker, the smell he leaves behind is more the smell of the freshly lit cigarette. Doesn't bother me, but that doesn't make it any less THERE.

Jenise, Hi...

Three points:

(a) I didn't say "girls".....I said "ladies"
(b) I adore you as well
(c) I offer you my sword, not as a sign of surrender but as one of good faith*


Best
Rogov

*The tradition being that with an opponent you respect you return the sword. After all, what's a smoker without a sword?

[Jenise]

*The tradition being that with an opponent you respect you return the sword. After all, what's a smoker without a sword?

Sword accepted, I'll hang it on the wall over my computer.

Btw, I absolutely love the smell of cigar smoke. And a man who puffs a good stogie and saws fresh wood at the same time will have me at his feet like a kitten. But don't tell anybody.

And btw, I absolutely love the smell of cigar smoke.

Yuk! But, I can tolearate a good, sweet-smelling (with the slightest hint of burbon) pipe tobacco. But, I'll deny it, if asked.

[Jenise]

And btw, I absolutely love the smell of cigar smoke.

Yuk! But, I can tolearate a good, sweet-smelling (with the slightest hint of burbon) pipe tobacco. But, I'll deny it, if asked.

Me too. A friend who managed a smoke shop used to give me fresh little baggies I'd keep in the unused ashtray in my car for a sweet, woody ambience. Passengers used to think it was the burl paneling.

*The tradition being that with an opponent you respect you return the sword. After all, what's a smoker without a sword?

Sword accepted, I'll hang it on the wall over my computer.

Btw, I absolutely love the smell of cigar smoke. And a man who puffs a good stogie and saws fresh wood at the same time will have me at his feet like a kitten. But don't tell anybody.

Back when it was okay to smoke on airlines, I was once on a commuter plane bouncing away and the guy in front of me lit up a cigar. Let's say it was not love at first sniff.

I could always tell which of those patients of mine smoked. Their clothes and breath reeked. And a few months ago, I was walking outside with a co-teacher to a writing class. He had been struggling to give up a resurrected smoking habit, which had been relit after 27 years. I suddenly noticed the smell of tobacco wafting my way from his exhalations. "Have you been smoking again?" I asked. He admitted he had. I don't have a particularly strong sense of smell, and I could smell his breath from some distance away.

The point is no matter how much smokers delude themselves, they smell. Their clothes smell. And their houses smell. (And have you ever entered a smoker's hotel room and smelled the stale smoke?) Just so you know, I'm not pushing for a ban on any substance. What people do to themselves is their business. Unfortunately, smokers contaminate whole areas around them--and, as I've been frequently reminded, their civil rights trump mine.