Trends for 2009

At the Cheers Beverage Conference last week Kathy Casey, Adam Seger, and Robin Schempp all predicted that sake and soju will be big this year. Any thoughts? Or any brand recommendations?

With the way the economy is going, I predict cheap beer will be big this year.

[Jenise]

At the Cheers Beverage Conference last week Kathy Casey, Adam Seger, and Robin Schempp all predicted that sake and soju will be big this year. Any thoughts? Or any brand recommendations?

No reccomendations, but I understand that some American sakes are being produced and I'd be interested in sampling same. In fact, I have one bottle, a short squat black porcelain bottle called 'G', already lined up, but haven't opened it yet (pending the purchase of products for comparison). I would love hearing from anyone with experience in same. Hoke, perhaps?

Watch for the Italian drink called "Aperol", served like Campari with soda and/or a splash of white wine, and with half the alcoholic content and less bitter. Supposedly the most popular drink in Italy, my wife is convinced, she's hooked on it!

At the Cheers Beverage Conference last week Kathy Casey, Adam Seger, and Robin Schempp all predicted that sake and soju will be big this year. Any thoughts? Or any brand recommendations?

No reccomendations, but I understand that some American sakes are being produced and I'd be interested in sampling same. In fact, I have one bottle, a short squat black porcelain bottle called 'G', already lined up, but haven't opened it yet (pending the purchase of products for comparison). I would love hearing from anyone with experience in same. Hoke, perhaps?

I also found a brand after a little bit of searching. Check out TyKu. Seems cool to me.

At the Cheers Beverage Conference last week Kathy Casey, Adam Seger, and Robin Schempp all predicted that sake and soju will be big this year. Any thoughts? Or any brand recommendations?

I don't know that this would be 'comforting' or familiar enough for drinkers during the US downturn.

[Jenise]

Btw, I don't know what Soju is. Can someone enlighten?

Btw, I don't know what Soju is. Can someone enlighten?

"Korean sake". The good ones are made from rice but there is lots of cheaper stuff made from potatoes and other stuff.

For the record, I agree that sake and soju have room to blossom in the US, but I'm not sure that 2009 will be their year..

Btw, I don't know what Soju is. Can someone enlighten?

"Korean sake". The good ones are made from rice but there is lots of cheaper stuff made from potatoes and other stuff.

For the record, I agree that sake and soju have room to blossom in the US, but I'm not sure that 2009 will be their year..

There is good Soju? I have had what I was told was the good stuff and I have been served quite a bit of soju since moving to Japan. Even the smallest amount (one shot) has giving me a horrible hangover. My Japanese co-workers have nothing good to say about it.

Before I recently moved to Japan I lived in Sacramento, CA for 14 years. About 7 or 8 years ago many of my friends were getting heavily into sake (not drunk mind you) just getting into all its different facets(sweet to dry; warm vs cold; different grades of milled rice, etc.) I never thought of Sacramento as being some trend setting place. There is a sake distilory in Folsom and several in Berekely.

I will take Italian bitters any day.

There is good Soju? I have had what I was told was the good stuff and I have been served quite a bit of soju since moving to Japan. Even the smallest amount (one shot) has giving me a horrible hangover. My Japanese co-workers have nothing good to say about it.

Do you find your co-workers have many good things to say about anything Korean? Kinda curious knowing a little of the history of the two countries.

I remember when the sake thing began in Berkeley. I tasted a couple of them early on.

I tried sake once. Didn't like it, never tried it again. Same with Japanese beer, vile stuff.

Wait until you try Japanese Scotch whiskey, Suntory by name. That will take the chrome off your bumper hitch.

I went to a tasting of very rare and high-end sakes last year. These were interesting beverages and the prices were certainly more reasonable than those of fine wine. For my tastes, though, I didn't find anything that really grabbed me and made me want to take up sake as a hobby. The rest of the people at the tasting pretty much agreed with that sentiment. I don't know whether it's something that is an acquired taste or whether it just doesn't appeal to those who are used to western tastes, but I don't see it taking off anytime soon.

IIRC, several sake manufacturers made a concerted effort to get Americans (or at least Californians) into sake a decade or so ago. Sake plants opened up in several locations around here and while some are still going, some others are gone (which one was it that had the really pretty tasting room at the north end of the Napa Valley?). I don't see why it would happen now when it didn't then.

There is good Soju? I have had what I was told was the good stuff and I have been served quite a bit of soju since moving to Japan. Even the smallest amount (one shot) has giving me a horrible hangover. My Japanese co-workers have nothing good to say about it.

Do you find your co-workers have many good things to say about anything Korean? Kinda curious knowing a little of the history of the two countries..

I agree with Chef here. Soju has a bad reputation in Japan that is not necessarily based in reality.

Kind of like some Americans' views of sake

I went to a tasting of very rare and high-end sakes last year. These were interesting beverages and the prices were certainly more reasonable than those of fine wine. For my tastes, though, I didn't find anything that really grabbed me and made me want to take up sake as a hobby. The rest of the people at the tasting pretty much agreed with that sentiment. I don't know whether it's something that is an acquired taste or whether it just doesn't appeal to those who are used to western tastes, but I don't see it taking off anytime soon..

I don't know about 'Western' tastes but the flavor impact is obviously much less than with wine or scotch. It's a different experience of looking for 'purity' and 'texture'. Kind of like vodka I guess. Not something I am going to spend my energy following, but definitely nice to appreciate every now and again.

FWIW, in my experience top sake is pretty similarly priced to top wine (and by that I mean 'normal' top wine not DRC).

I don't know about 'Western' tastes but the flavor impact is obviously much less than with wine or scotch. It's a different experience of looking for 'purity' and 'texture'. Kind of like vodka I guess. Not something I am going to spend my energy following, but definitely nice to appreciate every now and again.

FWIW, in my experience top sake is pretty similarly priced to top wine (and by that I mean 'normal' top wine not DRC).

On the price, I think we had a couple that were over $50, but most were not (IIRC). There were several that had been purchased in Japan, so I don't know what they'd have cost over here.

Kind of like some Americans' views of sake

If I get a desire to drink rice, I'll pop a top on a Budweiser. Still tastes like crap, but it's American brewed.

On the price, I think we had a couple that were over $50, but most were not (IIRC)..

I don't know sake well enough to make detailed comparisons of value for money. But, I do know that the top sakes in Japan are often hundreds of dollars and are very expensive. Not that good stuff can't be found for less money.

I've had both sakes and sojus that I've enjoyed. But, I don't go out of my way to seek either. I invariably try the sake in a sushi bar, though.

In Japan the best shochu (as they call it) is made from sweet potatoes. Shochu used to be regarded as being for less refined tastes - the beverage of choice for drunkards - but its image has been overhauled and more and more Japanese are choosing it over sake.

Here's a link to a NYT article on shochu:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/04/dining/04shoc.html

for most, this will fall in the "Way More Than I Needed To Know" file, but...

Quickie Sake Info

It's made like beer...but it's not beer. Drinks more like wine, but it's not wine. And it's not a spirit, although it can have spirits in it. It's sake.

It doesn't use regular table rice. It uses some special grades of rice. And polishing/millling the rice prior to fermentation affects the grade of the eventual sake. Why, what you are looking for for fermentation and resultant flavor is in the core of the rice kernel. The more you mill away (polish) the rice kernel the more you get rid of all the stuff the other stuff.

Sake makers use a mold (called koji) in the process too.

Sake has purity standards---think of it like the German reinsheitgebot rules on beer purity.

The grades of sake---quality sake, I mean---are Junmai, Junmai Ginjo and Junmai Daiginjo. If it's good stuff, they'll put this on the label. The "Junmai" indicates there is no alcohol added to the sake.

What they usually don't put on the label is what's called "Futsuu"---that's like saying "plonk" for wine, and it's what's accounts for 80% or more of the sake out there (Sturgeon's Law, remember?). There are also grades of Sake that allow alcohol (neutral grain spirits) to be added. The grades for that are Honjozo, Ginjo, and Daiginjo.

So look for the Junmai.

If you want to be sake-informed, the best guy in the US is John Gauntner (He's called "The Sake Guy", and he's the real deal). He also has a web site, http://www.sake-world.com that will satisfy any questions you have about sake.)

Oh, and the warm sake thing? That came about because up until about 30-40 years ago the technology for making sake was so unreliable that if you drank the plonk you needed to heat it up---because doing so disguised some of the harsh, off flavors!!!

As to the trend suggestion, my response is "Yes and No." I think sake will probably grow in the next year, but I don't think it will reach tremendous proportions in the public consciousness. I don't think it's going Yellow Tail on us, or anything like that. I believe the suggestion was made by chefs---and I believe those chefs might be suggesting that we'll see mor culinary uses for sake, and more suggestions for sake pairing with foods. And I'm all for that. But I don't think sake will ever establish itself anywhere near the degree it is in Japan. I think the taste profiles don't suit the Murkin palate. Jeez, it was hard enough to get them to drink wine.

As to soju/shochu, not enough variation there to get people excited. It would take an intense marketing blitz to get soju even considered in this country. As previous posters said, in Korea, Japan, and China, the different sojus (whatever their name) were peasant drinks for quick blitzes---alcohol delivery systems, no taste required. And that, for the most part, is still what they are, although you're beginning to find some variation and improvement. But not much. Basically, it's still clear, relatively tasteless alcohol for Korean guys to sit around in flip flops and get a mild buzz going while they shoot the breeze. Cultural tradition that transcends culture.

Now, if some enterprlsing soull came out with a la vodka, with a line of 33 flavors of soju, like pomegranate, and mango, and star fruit, it might be a different proposition. But I really don't think that's A) going to happen or B) going to really catch on. (They've tried it for years with malt-based drinks and it's hard to do. Anyone for a Zima?).

I tried sake once. Didn't like it, never tried it again. Same with Japanese beer, vile stuff.

Robert, someone told me that you have one child! True?

Wait until you try Japanese Scotch whiskey, Suntory by name. That will take the chrome off your bumper hitch.

I went to highschool in Japan during my senior year, and we drank the stuff every weekend. Horrid, but we weren't very particular at that age (and you could get it right out of the vending machines that were on every street corner!).

Wait until you try Japanese Scotch whiskey, Suntory by name. That will take the chrome off your bumper hitch.

I went to highschool in Japan during my senior year, and we drank the stuff every weekend. Horrid, but we weren't very particular at that age (and you could get it right out of the vending machines that were on every street corner!).

If you went back as an adult, Kyrstyn, you might have a slightly different attitude (but only if you actually like whiskey, and scotch whisky in particular ).

Suntory has actually produced some good stuff. I don't really know about their lowest level whiskey, but I can tell you that I've put their single malt, the Yamazaki, in a comparison tasting of whiskies during educaitonal seminars, and they've actually shown fairly well.

Mind you, I don't think I'll ever go out of my way to pay for a bottle for my own personal consumption; if I want a scotch whisky, I'll simply pick up a whisky from Scotland. But Suntory is capable of making some quality whisky these days.