Metal baking pans vs. silicone

[Jenise]

In the past year or so I added a couple silicone baking pans to my tiny collection of bakeware. And I've used them here and there, but I don't bake much not and it wasn't until yesterday, because I didn't have enough of any one type to accomodate the amount of batter I made (a double recipe), that I finally did a side by side comparison with conventional pans. I was totally surprised by the differences.

Here's a pic I just took of two of the muffins:

DSC02637.JPG

The muffin on the left came out of the silicone pan and was made with one scoop of batter. The muffin on the right was in a conventionl muffin pan and was made with two scoops. The two pans were side by side on the top shelf, where the bottom shelf had another pan containing a dozen single scoop muffins in a conventional cupcake pan that I expected to remove after 15 minutes along with the silicone pan, leaving the large conventional pan in for about five more minutes. However, the large muffins also looked pretty done and they passed the toothpick test, so I removed ALL the muffins. That the muffins in the silicone pan were less brown didn't concern me--it seemed logical that metal vs. silicone could account for that difference all by itself.

So when I bit into one of the silicone muffins later, I couldn't have been more shocked to find them underdone. I then broke one of the large muffins in half--they were done perfectly.

Conclusion: silicone bakeware requires more time than conventional. Has anyone else experienced this?

Jenise, in my experience and also from what I've read, the exact characteristics of a pan always matter. For example, a shiny new, light-colored pan behaves much differently than a darker one. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and guess that the conventional pan you used on the right hand muffin was dark in color. (I'll probably be wrong). So while I've tried both (although never side-by-side ,as you did), it doesn't surprise me that silicone behaves differently. From what little I understand about this, what happens with a muffin is particularly pan-dependent. Metal retains heat, silicone doesn't. Dark metal heats up faster than light metal. My conclusion on silicone in general is that I don't like it, although it is better for cakes, where a crust is not desireable and the quick rise you get from the pan heating up is not important. For bread, where a crust is good, or muffins, where some browning makes for a more attractive product, metal is the only way to go. IMHO, of course.

[Jenise]

For example, a shiny new, light-colored pan behaves much differently than a darker one. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and guess that the conventional pan you used on the right hand muffin was dark in color.

Good guess, you're absolutely right. Dark, also shiny and relatively new. Very interesting comments you made. As someone who cooks about 99:1 or better savoury over sweet, I'm certainly aware of the difference between glass, metal and enamel, say, when it comes to oven-prepared foods, but the difference in cooking times and color result for something as small and sensitive as a muffin is a whole new world to me. I was certainly surprised for instance that the smallest muffins (not pictured) turned out so dark (another new, dark pan), but I attributed that to their being on the lower rack. In light of what you say and what I saw with the larger muffins, it was probably as much the pan as the rack position.

Two more differences between the silicone and the metal, as long as we're at it, should be mentioned. 1) Visible in the picture, the metal pan produced a smooth, slick exterior wall where the silicone was rougher and holier, rather like angel food cake. 2) Not only were the silicone muffins not completely done, they puffed up quite a bit more (possibly the cylindrical shape of the forms) than either of the muffins in the metal pans, in fact they actually have a hollow center (which is why the muffin in this picture appears to be listing to one side, structurally it doesn't have the support that the slope-sided muffins did.)

Jenise, I hate the silicone pans. I've given all of mine away. I found that the muffins etc in silicone tended to taste more steamed than baked. Pete's explanation was that the silicone didn't get hot in the same way that metal does. You know how they use silicone to make pot holders and spatulas that don't melt ? Well, same deal with the pans - they don't get as hot, so you don't get the same crisping on the outside as you do with metal. At least, that's what I think happens. I try to use the heaviest bakewear I can find - cast aluminium is my preference. I agree - the darker the pan, the browner your finished product, which is why a lot of times I've got to drop the oven heat to accommodate a new, non-stick pan.

[Jenise]

Jenise, I hate the silicon pans. I've given all of mine away. I found that the muffins etc in silicon tended to taste more steamed than baked. Pete's explanation was that the silicon didn't get hot in the same way that metal does. You know how they use silicon to make pot holders and spatulas that don't melt ? Well, same deal with the pans - they don't get as hot, so you don't get the same crisping on the outside as you do with metal. At least, that's what I think happens. I try to use the heaviest bakewear I can find - cast aluminium is my preference. I agree - the darker the pan, the browner your finished product, which is why a lot of times I've got to drop the oven heat to accommodate a new, non-stick pan.

Steamed--YES! I forgot to mention that. Yes, they seemed steamed. The muffins were kind of wet to the touch when I removed them. Good analogy between the pans and the pot holders--makes the point perfectly.

I was lucky enough to get to use someone else's silicone bakeware before buying any of my own. I hated it.

For breads I prefer terra cotta, but for muffins I use dark metal.

They're great for molding/demolding. I bet a sformata would come out perfect.

The first time I saw a silicone baking vessel I knew that I would hate it so I never bothered.

rwj

The first time I saw a silicone baking vessel I knew that I would hate it so I never bothered.

rwj

I'm with you...the first time I saw those slimy, withering, baking things, I knew I would never have one in my kitchen. I love the spatulas, and the basting brushes, but that is as far as I'm going with it.

I bought a ceramic deep-dish pie pan at Kohl's back in November, that had silicone sleeves to hold the pan with. That was nice, but I'm with Cowboy, first time I saw a silicone pan I thought "no way".

I'm with you...the first time I saw those slimy, withering, baking things, I knew I would never have one in my kitchen. I love the spatulas, and the basting brushes, but that is as far as I'm going with it.

Karen, I recommend that you also add a pair of silicon oven mitts or gloves to that list of what you will allow in your kitchen. I use a pair with my grill, and would not be without them.

The mats and gear are just dandy. Stay away from the vessels.

I'm not a baker, and have not used any silicone pans (we do like the mitts, pastry brush, etc). But it occurs to me that as silicone is heat resistant, maybe if you did use for baking the pans might require a significant preheat.

Problem is that silicone has a much lower heat capacity and thermal conductivity, so the preheat will do nada.

There's just no way around the fact that they suck. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

rwj

Silicone is an insulator whereas metal is a conductor. That I think is what accounts for the difference.

-Paul W.

[Jenise]

The mats and gear are just dandy. Stay away from the vessels.

This was the first time I'd ever used one for baking. I've used a ring mold for cold applications, however, gelatin and cheese based terrines, and they're terrific for that. Stuff just pops out.

I want to thank all of you for your posts. My daughter is studing temperature, heat, conductors, insulators, kinetic and thermal energy, etc. in school and your posts helped me prove that she would use science later in her life. I told her it was especially important since she wants to be a pastry chef. You guys proved my point.

Thanks,
Jim

I want to thank all of you for your posts. My daughter is studing temperature, heat, conductors, insulators, kinetic and thermal energy, etc. in school and your posts helped me prove that she would use science later in her life. I told her it was especially important since she wants to be a pastry chef. You guys proved my point.

Thanks,
Jim

Make sure she also pays attention to pH, acids, alkalines, etc. as these are critical in baking, especially things that rise without yeast.

Traditional gear for baking muffins is always metal. You don't see Pyrex or ceramics being used. The reason that those vessels are unsuitable is the same as for silicone--they're all insulators.

If you want a non-stick surface, metal (conducts heat properly) with Teflon coating (thin enough that it doesn't insulate) is the ideal combination.

Where heat conduction isn't a problem, silicone equipment is just fine.

You really have to wonder just what the vendors of silicone baking pans were thinking of. Part of good marketing is recognizing your product's limitations, and just not going there.

-Paul W.

Make sure she also pays attention to pH, acids, alkalines, etc. as these are critical in baking, especially things that rise without yeast.

My degree is in Biology, specializing in Biochemistry. With that background, I find food chemistry utterly fascinating. Here we see a direct application of the physiochemical properties of insulators, and their effect on biochemical oxidation reactions of carbohydrate polymers (i.e., cooking and browning of starchy foods).

Bottom line is, maybe the food didn't stick to the silicone container, but it hardly matters because the muffins didn't cook properly because the silicone is too damn good as an insulator. So use traditional metal pans, and season them well or grease them inside. Or use Teflon-lined metal pans.

-Paul W.

I want to thank all of you for your posts. My daughter is studing temperature, heat, conductors, insulators, kinetic and thermal energy, etc. in school and your posts helped me prove that she would use science later in her life. I told her it was especially important since she wants to be a pastry chef. You guys proved my point.

Thanks,
Jim

Have her start brewing her own beer. That is a science experiment you can really learn from. Better yet, have her start brewing your beer.

rwj

I have been looking for a a way to freeze stock in a convenient shape. I have seen a number of folks use either silicone muffin pans or mini-loaf pans to freeze their stock and then transfer them to freezer bags. Apparently they work quite well for this use.

Traditional gear for baking muffins is always metal. You don't see Pyrex or ceramics being used. The reason that those vessels are unsuitable is the same as for silicone--they're all insulators.

Paul, I'm a bit uncomfortable with your use of the terms "conduct" and "insulate" here, as all materials are thermally conductive, just to vastly varying degrees. Stuart's point is key here: silicone has a far lower heat capacity than metal, and consequently transfers far less heat to the batter. [background -- heat transfer takes place via one of two processes: radiative or conductive {convection, often offered as a third process, is just a variant on conduction} involving either the aborption of infrared or microwave radiation or a collision with a hotter molecule, respectively] This same explanation accounts for why you can boil water in a paper cup without burning the paper -- water's heat capacity so far exceeds paper's that the temperature of the paper never exceeds its flash point. Because the muffin batter is shielded from most radiation by the muffin pan, it will heat up mostly from conduction from the air and the pan; because the heat capacity of the pan is so low, most of the heat transfer comes from the air, a not very efficient process.

Ironically, the same principle explains why an inch-thick glass or ceramic muffin pan wouldn't be such a hot idea (pun intended): it would have such a high heat capacity that it'd take 20-30 minutes to reach oven temperature, resulting in a muffin undercooked in the same way as the silicone pan produced (lack of conductive heating). However, if one were to preheat the ceramic pan (as Dale suggested) before adding the batter, it would cook the muffins in the same way as the metal pan did.

Geekily yours,
Mark Lipton