The Charles Dickens of Pizza

The worst pizza I ever had came from a mix. The best is from a local restaurant called "La Hacienda" in the Little Italy section of Niagara Falls. Last February I was there with my son Pete, who was home on R&R from Iraq and about a dozen other people. We had 3 large pies, 100 wings and several beverages. When Aldo, the owner who grew up in Sicily during WWII, found out that Pete was home on leave from Iraq, he picked up the tab for the entire party.

So hard to say which was best. The pesto pizza at Zelda's (a local Chicago-style place) is my overall favorite for hedonistic cheese-bomb caloric goodness. For more traditional crusted pies, I'd go with a mushroom one I made a couple of years ago using the neopolitan method or a robiola-and-egg pizza that was served at a memorable supper with the Stupids a while back.

The worst pizza I ever had came from a mix.

How do you make pizza from a mix? The dough? The sauce? The toppings? Everything?

The best pizza I ever had was right here in Redding when two young men opened up a small, local place called "Awesome Pizza". It was a thin crust infused with fresh garlic, three cheeses (not your usual cheddar or jack) can't recall what they used, and that was it. Sometimes I had them add their version of marinated artichoke hearts that they marinated there at the pizza place. Never had I had such a wonderful taste in my mouth.
We've tried pizzas when we travel in other parts of the U.S. even having them delivered to our RV site. Amazing how some places know nothing of how to make a good pizza pie.

three cheeses (not your usual cheddar or jack)

I'm almost afraid to know the answer, but where exactly is it that cheddar and jack are usual cheeses for pizza?

IMost pizza in France is awful, anyway.

How about Marseille? I know people who swear some of the mafia-run pizza establishments in Marseille are world-class. Unfortunately I never got a chance to join them because I came down with food poisioning early in the trip..

As a side note, I would venture that most pizza in the world is awful. Do you really think France is unique (or particularly bad) in that respect?

Best pizzas I've had were at:

Santarpio's Pizza, East Boston. Considered by many (including me) to be the best pizza in the city. A wonderfully unpretentious, working-class kinda place. Wicked pissah, as they say in Boston.

Diamond Pizza, Wethersfield, CT. This is the pizzaria I grew up on. Their green pepper pizza remains a fond memory. It's been a long time since I was there, but apparently the place is still in operation. If they're still making the same pizza recipe, it's well worth a visit.

Town Pizza, Auburn, MA. This is where we used to go when I was in college in Worcester. Their "Town Special" (aka the "garbage scow") was, indeed, special. Again, I haven't been there in years and don't know if they still are making the same classic.

-Paul W.

The worst pizza I ever had came from a mix.

How do you make pizza from a mix? The dough? The sauce? The toppings? Everything?

It was many years ago, when I was a kid. It all came in a box. The dough mix had baking powder in it so it would rise when cooking. It may have been Chef Boy-R-Dee or something. They may still sell them in the supermarkets, but I haven't really been looking for them. Who knows - maybe frozen pizza put them out of business.

[James Roscoe]

My dad tried to make pizza with Chef Boy-R-dee mix when I was a kid in suburban Philly. Yech! There are some great pizza places in Philly. Maggio's in Southampton is very good.

It was many years ago, when I was a kid. It all came in a box. The dough mix had baking powder in it so it would rise when cooking. It may have been Chef Boy-R-Dee or something. They may still sell them in the supermarkets, but I haven't really been looking for them. Who knows - maybe frozen pizza put them out of business.

I remember these well from the 1960s. Two main brands, as I recall: Chef Boy-ar-Dee and Jeno's. The box had a packet of flour, a packet of yeast, and a can of sauce. You added warm water to the yeast to activate it, mixed it with the flour, kneaded, let it rise, the rolled it out and spread the sauce on top. You covered with your choice of grated cheese and other toppings.

So it was basically like making pizza from scratch, but with the ingredients pre-measured.

The TV commercials for these pizza mixes used to tout the advantage of fresh-out-of-the-oven over take-out. "Cold again!" was the lament in the commercials of the family when dad returned after rushing through traffic from the pizzaria to home.

I haven't noticed these in supermarkets for decades. I suspect that frozen pizza and microwave ovens took away the market. Those inclined to go to the trouble of mixing up a dough and rolling it out were willing to go completely from scratch. Those not so inclined went frozen, or bought refrigerated pizza dough, or Boboli-type pizza shells.

But I'd rate the Chef Boy-ar-Dee pizza-from-mix as superior to, say, a Pizzaria Uno frozen pizza re-heated. The latter comes out all soggy, and nothing like the original as served in the restaurant chain (I am very fond of their deep-dish pizzas from the restaurant). The Chef Boy-ar-Dee and Jeno's mix pizzas were far from stellar, but they were superior to most frozen pizzas.

You still can't beat from-scratch, either in a pizzaria or made at home.

-Paul W.

[Robin Garr]

Boy, that's a toughie! I've had some wonderful pizzas in Northern Italy but have never gotten to Naples. The best pizza in New York City has to be DiFara in Brooklyn. Or possibly my sentimental favorite for Sicilian squares, Rizzo's on Steinway in Astoria.

Here in Louisville, my favorite is the wood-fired pizza at Primo on East Market, mainly because it's true Italian-style, not Italian-American. (And I can come mighty close to replicating it at home, but lacking a pizza oven does impose some limit.)

I share the community memory of really bad kit pizza (Chef Boy Ar Dee?) as a child, but in recent recollection, barring frozen pizza, I've got to give the crown for awfulness to Louisville's own Papa John's, in a tight race with Pizza Hut.

French pizza? I've had pies in Marseilles and Montpellier that I'd rank right there with Italian.

I think the best was a pizza we had in Trastevere, in Rome, back in 2000. They had wonderful thin pizzas with all sorts of stuff on top like ham and a fried egg and arugula or something. I have no idea where it came from, we were guests.

Worst was at our Department Meetings, they would order from some place locally in NJ where you would get two pizzas for the price of one. I think that over the past 50 years the Italian guys who ran the pizza places have all sold to folks from Pakistan or somewhere (not that there's anything wrong with that) -- but this crud tasted more like cardboard than the box it came in, downright inedible. Finally after enduring this for several meetings when they said "any new business" I spoke up and asked if we could PLEASE change pizza vendors.

Frank

The worst pizza I ever had came from a mix.

How do you make pizza from a mix? The dough? The sauce? The toppings? Everything?

It was many years ago, when I was a kid. It all came in a box. The dough mix had baking powder in it so it would rise when cooking. It may have been Chef Boy-R-Dee or something.

Wow.

Ok. Interesting.

My faves, other than my Nana's sicilian style cookie sheet pizzas, have been Santarpio's (good call, Paul), Bill Ash's on Reveah Beach (back 20yrs ago, the pizza is not so good now), and Pizzeria Bianco here in Phoenix. Caruso's in Melrose, MA makes a really good sicilian as well.

Bad pizza...Maybe a jalapeno pizza I had on Maui. It was more like a burnt tortilla covered with overly spiced, runny tomato sauce, cheeze whiz and sliced jalapeno. Yuk.

The worst pizza I ever had came from a mix.

How do you make pizza from a mix? The dough? The sauce? The toppings? Everything?

It was many years ago, when I was a kid. It all came in a box. The dough mix had baking powder in it so it would rise when cooking. It may have been Chef Boy-R-Dee or something.

Wow.

Ok. Interesting.

In my early years, I made pizzas from a box: Appian Way was the brand. It wasn't bad. It had the flour mixture in an envelope and a can of pizza sauce.

Regarding cheddar and jack, the pizza joints in my hometown used that mixture and I still wouldn't mind having a slice. It added a slightly different flavor profile, which was good even if inauthentic.

The main question is difficult. My homemade pizza is, IMHO, great. But I remember some awesome NY-style pizzas (aka known as tomato pies) in the PA/NJ area in my earlier lifetime. I think the best pizza in Albuquerque is Giovanni's (ranked one of the best 100 in the country).

Back in the 70s, Nunzio's opened a by-the-slice pizza joint near UNM, which was great. But they and other pizza places gradually slide down the mediocrity scale by cutting back on ingredients.

The one pizza I never liked was one of three in my boyhood hometown: Romeo's. I always thought it tasted like warm vomit.

[Jenise]

Best pizza I ever had was in Rome. Had no idea what I was ordering but recognized the Italian word for arugula in the name and so that's what I asked for. Turned out to be a plain cheese pizza, flat and crisp, topped with a fresh cold salad of arugula tossed with oil, vinegar and garlic. Truly a died-and-went-to-heaven experience--totally fabulous, and unlike anything I'd ever had. Salad on a pizza--who knew? 2nd best would go to a perfectly singed pizza a la importer (take-out, from a little bus in a parking lot) in Alberville, France, topped with mushrooms, heavenly French ham (American can't come close) and roquefort, that we drug back to our hotel and downed with a bottle of Vieux Telegraf purchased at the winery that morning. It wasn't that we were so desperate for pizza, but this was literally the only place open and what we got so spectacularly exceeded all expectations: the ingredients were first rate, the combination was magical, and the en place part irreplaceable. Third might be an 'everything' style pizza I ordered once in Bonn, Germany--again, flat and crisp--and this time with a variety of great German cured meats on top and lots of mild pickled peppers. Again, unlike anything I'd ever had, perfectly cooked, and made with spectacular ingredients.

Worst? Dominos.

Best pizza I ever had was in Rome. Had no idea what I was ordering but recognized the Italian word for arugula in the name and so that's what I asked for. Turned out to be a plain cheese pizza, flat and crisp, topped with a fresh cold salad of arugula tossed with oil, vinegar and garlic. Truly a died-and-went-to-heaven experience.

All RIGHT Jenise!

Good to get some confirmation on that memorable experience I had in Rome.

Frank

[Jenise]

Best pizza I ever had was in Rome. Had no idea what I was ordering but recognized the Italian word for arugula in the name and so that's what I asked for. Turned out to be a plain cheese pizza, flat and crisp, topped with a fresh cold salad of arugula tossed with oil, vinegar and garlic. Truly a died-and-went-to-heaven experience.

All RIGHT Jenise!

Good to get some confirmation on that memorable experience I had in Rome.

Frank

It was unforgettable. No egg like yours, but that cold salad was shockingly wonderful--never saw anything like it. I've been a big fan of salad on my pizza ever since, not that anyone does that here. Though in Anchorage, Alaska, a little spot we loved made a BLT to a similar aesthetic--smoked mozz, bacon, and topped with a pile of cold romaine as soon as it came out of the oven, then drizzled with a little vinaigrette. YUM. Too, somehow it takes some of the guilt out of what has become for us, considering the carbs and fat combination, a guilty pleasure.

[Jenise]

Randy, how about you? Is there no good pizza in Paris? (Not that with Parisian food, you'd actually miss it.)

Randy, how about you? Is there no good pizza in Paris? (Not that with Parisian food, you'd actually miss it.)

Not Randy, but the worst pizza I've ever had was in Paris. It was in Montparnasse, in the crepe district, and there was a place with pizza to go. Awful. Gummy, congealed cheeze when hot, crust already stale, sauce with no tomato flavor. I can't generalize about the whole city, but at least in that neighborhood I was struck at how terrible the quality of the takeout pizza and chinese food. There's bad pizza and Chinese in any big city, but Paris seemed to be especially lacking in those respects.

I can't put my finger on the best pizza I've ever had. I'll have to give it a think.

Walt

No, I actually think that pizza in France is worse than most...I think the problem is the error that a good pizza can be made on the cheap and marketed as fast food.

But that applies everywhere, not just Paris, no?

Truthfully, I think it is hard to say that one place has "worse" pizza than others, how would that even be measured. So I think we should just all agree that lots of places have really terrible pizza, and do our best to avoid them.

Shocking!

I like Jenise's stories, although if you are having problems finding salad on pizza, you should come down South because it's quite common in the Bay Area. Pizza with nettles is one of the staples at the Chez Panisse cafe. (It's also a staple Chez Rahsaan, when nettles are in season)..

I have absolutely no idea when or where I had the best pizza, but I do have a very fond memory of eating pizza in Milan. Yes, I know it's not the most Pizzafied Place in Italy. But I was faced with the typical task of finding something delicious and affordable in a strange city with minimal recommendations, so when I happened upon a delightful place serving various kinds of foccacia pizza with pristine toppings and of course plenty of that Heavenly Olive Oil, I went back every day for lunch.

I'm usually someone who likes to experiment and find new things, but I was tired of disappointments and this was so perfect. I can still remember the smokey grilled zucchini and ricotta foccacia pizza. Mmmm...

I like Jenise's stories, although if you are having problems finding salad on pizza, you should come down South because it's quite common in the Bay Area. For example, pizza with nettles is one of the staples at the Chez Panisse cafe. (It's also a staple Chez Rahsaan, when nettles are in season, although I do add cheese)..

I have absolutely no idea when or where I had the best pizza, but I do have a very fond memory of eating pizza in Milan. Yes, I know it's not the most Pizzafied Place in Italy. But I was faced with the typical task of finding something delicious and affordable in a strange city with minimal recommendations. So, when I happened upon a delightful place serving various kinds of focaccia pizza with pristine toppings and of course plenty of that Heavenly Olive Oil, I went back every day for lunch.

I'm usually someone who likes to experiment and find new things, but I was tired of disappointments and this was so perfect. I can still remember the smokey grilled zucchini and ricotta focaccia pizza. Mmmm...

The best pizza for me is probably our local pizzeria...it is just absolutely perfect New York style pizza...nice tangy sauce, a delicious, almost buttery crisp and chewy crust, and just the right amount of cheese...heaven.

I did enjoy the pizza in Italy, but I think that my pizza taste buds have been so Americanized that I associate pizza with NJ/NY pizza.

Jenise - The local pizzeria my parents frequent has an arugula topped pizza. I think it's ok, but I don't think that their actual pizza is very good...too much cheese, gets soggy with the arugula and vinegarette, etc.

When I lived in Chicago, I really enjoyed the pan/stuffed crust pizza. The best I ever had was hands down from Chicago Pizza Pizzeria. And I ate at all the "great" Chicago pizza places...waited for 2 hrs to have a pizza at Gino's East, and still think that Chicago Pizzeria's pizza beat them all.

The worst pizza I have ever had...pizza from a place called Renaldi's in Chicago. It's a thin crust version...just plain disgusting. Cardboard crust, tasteless sauce, awful cheese...even after a few drinks I couldn't eat it (and that's pretty bad) .