This Saturday at 1PM EDT: German Wines

I drink them the rare times I'm in Germany, otherwise the only German wines I buy are the odd inexpensive ice-wine.

By co-incidence we opened a Kendermans ice-wein last night.

[David M. Bueker]

Saturday's Shoe will focus on more introductory information. We'll go over the major wine regions, including discussion about international availability, labeling (!), and some thoughts on the grapes used in Germany.

Part two will cover aging German wine, trends in wine styles & wine/food matching.

[David M. Bueker]

Ever wonder what all this stuff means?



Call in and find out!

[Robin Garr]

My response doesn't quite fit the choices because, as a wine geek/writer, I know a fair amount about German wine, have a clear understanding of the label and all but the most arcane nuances of the system ... but I don't naturally embrace the German wine style. I think it has something to do with having a natural affection for the Franco-Italian style of dry table wines and having grown up with that. I've never really bridged the conceptual gap, so when I'm tasting German wines I can understand and even appreciate them, but then I want to get right back to my Chianti or Cotes du Rhone.

Same goes for Riesling in general. I know most wine geeks adore them, but there's something about the variety that I just haven't been able to warm up to.

I understand that this is my personal issue and not that of the grape but I'd like to be able to overcome this handicap if I could.

[David M. Bueker]

Robin,

Are there particular attributes of dry Rieslings you do not care for? I can fully understand the preference for a dry table wine, as it has been drilled in to many of us through cultural brainwashing.

But do you enjoy sweetness in other forms? Have you ever had a dish with a sweet component (e.g. a fruit sauce) that cried out for something other than a bone dry wine?

[Robin Garr]

Are there particular attributes of dry Rieslings you do not care for? I can fully understand the preference for a dry table wine, as it has been drilled in to many of us through cultural brainwashing.

But do you enjoy sweetness in other forms? Have you ever had a dish with a sweet component (e.g. a fruit sauce) that cried out for something other than a bone dry wine?

These are very good questions, David, and I think they help illuminate my problem (and as I said, I know it's "my" problem. )

1. I think it's primarily the highly aromatic thing. Oddly - and this echoes, a little, the Joe-and-Victor show in the Tempranillo thread - I'm not overly fond of highly aromatic varieties (Riesling, Gewurz, Sauvignon Blanc, Viognier, even Albarino) because I prefer something more subtle than their up-front aromatic nature.

2. In general I don't have a well-formed "sweet tooth." I can easily skip dessert, and when I have one, I tend to prefer elegance or simplicity (bread pudding, panna cotta, Indian kheer or the infelicitously named barfi) to decadent chocolate desserts. Among wines, I don't much care for Sauternes or other late-harvest, botrityzed dessert wines either (there's a volatile element in them that I don't like even in normal small amounts), but it can't be entirely the sweetness, as I like Madeira and sweeter-style Sherry and <i>love</I> Port.

3. (Added by edit) Forgot to respond to your other query: I really don't care for fruit sauces or sweet flavors in savory dishes at all, don't choose them from the menu when dining out and don't make them at home - or when I do, I'll make them savory, not sweet, like a fig sauce with pork or poultry that uses a veal stock, for example, and no added sugar.

[Robin Garr]

as a gentleman you force yourself.

It's not like I <i>hate</I> dessert.

[David M. Bueker]

These are very good questions, David, and I think they help illuminate my problem (and as I said, I know it's "my" problem. )

1. I think it's primarily the highly aromatic thing. Oddly - and this echoes, a little, the Joe-and-Victor show in the Tempranillo thread - I'm not overly fond of highly aromatic varieties (Riesling, Gewurz, Sauvignon Blanc, Viognier, even Albarino) because I prefer something more subtle than their up-front aromatic nature.

2. In general I don't have a well-formed "sweet tooth." I can easily skip dessert, and when I have one, I tend to prefer elegance or simplicity (bread pudding, panna cotta, Indian kheer or the infelicitously named barfi) to decadent chocolate desserts. Among wines, I don't much care for Sauternes or other late-harvest, botrityzed dessert wines either (there's a volatile element in them that I don't like even in normal small amounts), but it can't be entirely the sweetness, as I like Madeira and sweeter-style Sherry and <i>love</I> Port.

3. (Added by edit) Forgot to respond to your other query: I really don't care for fruit sauces or sweet flavors in savory dishes at all, don't choose them from the menu when dining out and don't make them at home - or when I do, I'll make them savory, not sweet, like a fig sauce with pork or poultry that uses a veal stock, for example, and no added sugar.

Some thoughts on the above. Not trying to refute your comments (all good ones), just continue the dialog:

1. Riesling is not an aromatic grape variety as far as I am concerned. It's not even close to Gewurz, Muscat, Viognier, etc. in terms of its aromatic effusiveness. In fact one of the primary components of Riesling aromatics is minerals instead of roses, tropical fruit, etc. You want aromatic in Germany, try Scheurebe.

2. If you are not a fan of botrytis (and I generally am not) then some German wines are just not going to appeal to you. Sauternes and Beerenauslese are botrytis blind spots for me. I love 'em both. I'm not a fan of TBA, as it goes too far to the botrytis juice end of the spectrum for me. I prefer my spatlesen and auslesen clean (and my limited 2006 vintage orders reflect that preference). While I love a good chocolate dessert, I don't think that has much to do with a preference for late-harvest wines. It's a completely different part of the taste preference spectrum. Do you like Banyuls? That would tell me something.

3. Even a fig or a cherry has its own sweetness. Perhaps an older Riesling where the sweetness has been somewhat muted by time would be more up your alley.

Now of course all of the above reflects my own personal bias, as well as the influences on my palate (namely Terry Theise, David Schildknecht and Thor Iverson) that are almost entirely from the rocks and acid school of Riesling (except of course Terry, but he has always had a bias to the non-botrytis versions of wines when given a choice - purity of flavor above all).

Not to sound like I am trying to "school" you, but many of your responses show a narrow focus for German wines. There's a wide world of trocken, halbtrocken & feinherb wines out there that have great cut and precision while being either technically dry or at least balanced dry.

my question is whether anybody has recently tasted the 1992 Hans Wirsching Iphöfer Kronsberg Riesling Spätlese Trocken?

I have only had a few Wirsching wines and know nothing about Franken vintages but I spied a bottle this morning while perusing the cellar of my girlfriends' parents and was curious about whether it needed to be open and drunk now, was already dead, or required more sleep?

[David M. Bueker]

my question is whether anybody has recently tasted the 1992 Hans Wirsching Iphöfer Kronsberg Riesling Spätlese Trocken?

I have only had a few Wirsching wines and know nothing about Franken vintages but I spied a bottle this morning while perusing the cellar of my girlfriends' parents and was curious about whether it needed to be open and drunk now, was already dead, or required more sleep?

Open it up and drink it. I had some older Franken wines last year & wines from the early-mid '90s (including Wirsching) were at their best with nowhere to go but downhill.

Open it up and drink it..

Thanks. Sounds like a good policy to me!

Greetings. FWIW, I had a first acquantance with German Rieslings, enjoyed them a bit, then neglected them for 20 years. What brought me back (and made them among my most-enjoyed wines) was finally grasping that they are not actually about "sweet." I believe that other people sometimes are distracted by this too. The principle is not unique to Rieslings (Champagnes demonstrate it too). As I put it for the San Francisco Chronicle:

The classic issue with Riesling wines isn't "sweet" but sweet-acid poise. People sense the latter more than the former. Just as with Champagnes, or fruit juices. (An orange's juice may seem "sweet" and a lemon's "sour" even if the lemon has more sugar, due to sweet-acid balance.)

Granted they still may not be everyone's thing. But what revealed to me the true versatility of artisanal German Rieslings (not to mention the outstanding values, the matchless aging capability) was when experienced fans showed them in pairings with foods like smoked fish, cheeses, pulled-pork sandwiches. Now I have seen how even so concentrated a category as Auslese can have very food-friendly poise, and I do not hesitate to open an appropriate Mosel Aus. or Spätlese with a grilled steak, for example.

[David M. Bueker]

I do not hesitate to open an appropriate Mosel Aus. or Spätlese with a grilled steak, for example.

You would like my wife! She does the same thing.