Netscape Forum Poll: Worst trends in wine

[Robin Garr]

As much as we enjoy wine and wish its producers well, most of us can work up a pretty good rant about some of the trends and developments that we find less admirable, from too much oak or too much sugar to wines made in anonymous "international" styles or seemingly intended to please critical palates and win high points. All this plus price inflation, laws that make it difficult to buy wine online and more. This week's CompuServe/Netscape forum poll gives you the chance to tell us which wine trends chap your cheeks, and why.

<b>Click here to vote</b>

(Remember, you don't have to register on Netscape or log in to vote. Feel ffree to post replies in either forum.)

[James Roscoe]

Anti-shipping laws as I live in Maryland. Otherwise I would vote for price inflation as it takes in many of the other ills listed.

I hate wines that taste overwhelmingly of "vanilla," so over-oaking is my big bugaboo. Inappropriate sweetness would be a close second-especially for reds.

My biggest frustration as a wine buyer is tasting a serious Cali Cab in the tasting room, liking it, and opening it later to find too much vanilla on the palette. I wonder if it is simply a lack of aeration/decanting time on my part?

I don't know that it is limited to wine, but Meaningless Marketing Speak irritates me wherever I see it.

Examples include:

"estate grown fruit"

All fruit is grown on an estate of some sort. (I guess this is just as bad as finding "home-made xyz" that were produced in somebody's place of business)

"hand selected wines"

So many ways to parse this I don't even know where to begin. What is the other option? Eye/foot/mouth/word-of-mouth selected wines? Technically speaking it was more likely to be the finger that did the actual moment of selection when pointing or clicking to the producer in question.

I'll stop there..

[David M. Bueker]

Polls!

Examples include:

"estate grown fruit"

All fruit is grown on an estate of some sort.

Hmmm, that doesn't strike me as meaningless marketing jargon. It differentiates products made from fruit grown on property owned by the wine producer on the label [or other arrangements--I think long-term standing contracts with a particular grower might also be allowed] from those products made from fruit grown elsewhere (where presumably the wine producer would usually have less control and input). And, isn't it subject to governmental regulation (at least in the United States) regarding what percentage of the fruit has to be grown on one's estate for the wine to be labeled 'estate-grown'? I guess one could quibble or whether it is 'important' or not, but, if I understand the legal requirements correctly, I do not think it meaningless.

My favorite doubletake on a label was a Forgotten Vines Zinfandel from DeLoach that was labeled part of their "Single Vineyard" series even though the back label made it clear that it had fruit from three different vineyards in different parts of Sonoma County. But apparently they have recently renamed the series 'Vineyard Designate' and removed 'Single Vineyard' from the label . . . so my fun is over.

Examples include:

"estate grown fruit"

All fruit is grown on an estate of some sort.

Not necessarily - depends what you mean by estate.

An Estate in South Africa has a legal meaning, an Estate wine being a wine grown in vineyards owned by and contiguous with the winery, grown made, matured and bottled on the site -- similar to a Bordeaux Chateau.

I don't equate estate with vineyard.

Let’s not confuse “Estate Grown” with “Estate Bottled”.
“Estate Grown” means that the fruit comes from grapes that are grown on an estate, but the wine can be produced somewhere else (custom crush facility or at another winery who might lease space to another producer). In other words the grapes are not out sourced.
“Estate Bottled” means the fruit is grown and wine is produced on the same property.

Salute

I had to vote "other" because when I read the list I thought "all of the above." Yes, it's a cop out, but you really hit all my hot button issues.

Mark Lipton

Examples include:

"estate grown fruit"

All fruit is grown on an estate of some sort.

Not necessarily - depends what you mean by estate.

An Estate in South Africa has a legal meaning, an Estate wine being a wine grown in vineyards owned by and contiguous with the winery, grown made, matured and bottled on the site -- similar to a Bordeaux Chateau.

I don't equate estate with vineyard.

"Similar to a Bordeaux Chateau"? Is there a requirement in Bordeaux that the vineyard be contiguous to belong to the estate?

Peter is correct re California regulations: to be estate designated the grapes must come from vineyards owned by the winery, or from vineyards under long term contract where the land is farmed under the direct supervision and to the specifications of the winery. And the wine is produced and bottled within the same appellation.

An Estate in South Africa has a legal meaning, an Estate wine being a wine grown in vineyards owned by and contiguous with the winery, grown made, matured and bottled on the site -- similar to a Bordeaux Chateau.

Hmmm, that doesn't strike me as meaningless marketing jargon. It differentiates products made from fruit grown on property owned by the wine producer on the label [or other arrangements--I think long-term standing contracts with a particular grower might also be allowed] from those products made from fruit grown elsewhere

I know what the term "estate grown fruit" means in practice.

My only point is that somebody owns the estate where the fruit is grown, regardless of whether it is the winemaker.

So therefore everything is really estate grown fruit and therefore the term is irritating. But I know I'm just whinging..

"which wine trends chap your cheeks"

I must be really mellowing out today, Robin, but wine has been giving me so much pleasure over the past few years -- say 12 years since I first got seriously interested in it -- that all the negatives seem relatively unimportant.

Even the negatives are relatively easy to avoid -- "over oaked" -- yeah there are some over oaked Chardonnays, and then a friend serves me a $10 unoaked Chardonnay from California, of all places, and it is just a perfect match with grilled chicken and a bit of crisp French bread.

Wine has been such a fascinating journey that I can even enjoy the potholes that provide a few little bumps along the way.

"Le meilleur des mondes possibles."

Regards, Bob

Interesting poll even though David does not like polls. Since I am in a wine friendly state the shipping laws do not effect me so couldn't cast my vote there. I hate over oaked wines but I have seen a definite trend away from oak over the last few years in many wine growing areas so didn't vote for oak. Price gets consideration but there are so many regions making so many good wines that everything isn't priced like Bordeaux, Burgundy or CA Cults. Part of the fun is finding other areas and my last case purchase, today, was a mixed case of well made Rioja and all were $20-30. My vote went to the international style with sympathy and my #2 vote going to Rahsaan and the stupid "marketing" comments.
Walt

Cute labels and catchy names

I don't know that it is limited to wine, but Meaningless Marketing Speak irritates me wherever I see it.

Examples include:

"estate grown fruit"

I agree with you wholeheartedly on application of deceptive mumbo jumbo. It keeps the regulators in business and the consumer confused and confronted with a maze of regulations to read in order to understand the wine label.

With regard to "estate grown," I know some commercial winemakers who use this term on their bottles on the back label. Basically, they are prohibited from using "estate bottled," a regulated term, because they do not put the AVA on their label. What they are trying to indicate is that these are their grapes grown and harvested by them in vineyards under their control as opposed to grapes purchased from third parties or juice or wine purchased elsewhere. It's definitely not a curve ball and builds on the TTB 's rules for the use of "estate bottled."

Hey, if everyone could interpret a wine label perfectly, we wine geeks might get invited out to dinner less often!!

Well my adopted State needs some major enlightenment when it comes to shipping laws. I can't even buy more than 1 liter at a winery and have it shipped to my home, much less buy any amount over the phone or online and get it shipped.

US shipping laws suck big time. Emigrate to Australia and get whatever you want, in any quantity you can afford, from whoever/wherever and whenever you want it!

Our regressive wine taxes here are about the only thing that suck.

US shipping laws suck big time. Emigrate to Australia and get whatever you want, in any quantity you can afford, from whoever/wherever and whenever you want it!

Our regressive wine taxes here are about the only thing that suck.

David,
What about the shipping conditions? Are all imported wines shipped to Oz in reefers, or do you have to be careful to avoid getting cooked wine. And the expense of employing reefers over such a long haul must inflate the price of imported wine, no?

Mark Lipton