Rules are rules?

The other day I was chatting with a winemaker buddy of mine about this and that and the other thing. The topic of the San Francisco Bay AVA in which his 60 acre winery is wholly located came up. He chose to remain with the Contra Costa County appellation instead of using the SF Bay AVA simply because it is more reflective of reality to him. The interesting outgrowth of this is that he cannot use "estate grown" on his labels since he is not using the AVA on them. And everything he makes except for one outsourced Lodi Zinfandel is grown, produced and bottled on his 60 acres of heaven. It is interesting indeed that rules which are purportedly mean to enlighten at times obfuscate.

Gary -

Which winery is this?


Mike

Viano Vineyards? Nice stuff, and inexpensive. And nice guys too.

Viano Vineyards? Nice stuff, and inexpensive. And nice guys too.

You caught me! Yeah, I've known Dave and John for about 10 years. They're something else and a heck of a lot of fun.

Yes, I met one of them - Dave I think - when he was up in Seattle selling the wine. I really appreciated the long-term family commitment to the winery. I also appreciated his modesty, making wine that was not built to get points - not overripe, not overextracted, not overpriced. Just good, everyday wine, built to give pleasure.

Dave

Yes, I met one of them - Dave I think - when he was up in Seattle selling the wine. I really appreciated the long-term family commitment to the winery. I also appreciated his modesty, making wine that was not built to get points - not overripe, not overextracted, not overpriced. Just good, everyday wine, built to give pleasure. Dave

Yes, David is the winemaker and salesman. John tends to the grapes. I knew their father before he passed last year. Their mother is still involved, too.

What's interesting is that I brought a couple of bottles of their Sandstone cab to an offline a couple of years ago and most everyone was not impressed. It was described as "overripe, overextracted, typical California wine." Oh well ...

As to pricing, they are now "skyrocketing" with their top of the line cab costing a haughty $17.00!!

To be sure, it's more than nice to have a winery and winefolk nearby who are invested in the local community and who are devoid of a lot of the hype you find elsewhere.

Viano Vineyards? Nice stuff, and inexpensive. And nice guys too.

You caught me! Yeah, I've known Dave and John for about 10 years. They're something else and a heck of a lot of fun.

Gary, where in CC county are they? As a former resident of the county, I like to keep track of its winemakers. Are they out Oakley way or somewhere else?

Mark Lipton

Gary, where in CC county are they? As a former resident of the county, I like to keep track of its winemakers. Are they out Oakley way or somewhere else? Mark Lipton

They are located in Martinez on Morello Ave. just south of Pacheco Blvd. where the Santa Fe RR trestle crosses Morello.

Viano Vineyards

They are located in Martinez on Morello Ave. just south of Pacheco Blvd. where the Santa Fe RR trestle crosses Morello.

Thanks. Is that where the vineyards are, too? From the website, it doesn't look like the Delta proper, but Martinez is pretty well built up.

Mark Lipton

They are located in Martinez on Morello Ave. just south of Pacheco Blvd. where the Santa Fe RR trestle crosses Morello.

Thanks. Is that where the vineyards are, too? From the website, it doesn't look like the Delta proper, but Martinez is pretty well built up. Mark Lipton

They are definitely not in the Delta which is about 1/2 hour from here. They are smack dab in the middle of Martinez which is the county seat of Contra Costa County. And, yes, the vineyards are there, too.

Here's a link to a Google map which shows their location and the vineyards: Viano Click it over to satellite view and you'll be able to see everything clearly. The town grew up around them.

They are definitely not in the Delta which is about 1/2 hour from here. They are smack dab in the middle of Martinez which is the county seat of Contra Costa County. And, yes, the vineyards are there, too.

Here's a link to a Google map which shows their location and the vineyards: Viano Click it over to satellite view and you'll be able to see everything clearly. The town grew up around them.

Cool!! Between Viano's putting their name onto the hillside and Google labelling Vine Hill, I've got the picture now. Whodathunk it? "Vines in Martinez" isn't quite as sonorous as "Cows in Berkeley?" but it comes close.

Mark Lipton
Erstwhile Richmond resident (1959-1977)

Cool!! Between Viano's putting their name onto the hillside and Google labelling Vine Hill, I've got the picture now. Whodathunk it? "Vines in Martinez" isn't quite as sonorous as "Cows in Berkeley?" but it comes close. Mark Lipton Erstwhile Richmond resident (1959-1977)

See Martinez and die! Besides wine, Martinez is the birthplace of Joe DiMaggio. It lays claim to being the origin of the Martini. And, and, and the fellow who did the voice for the Taco Bell chihuahua lives here.

I always thought that the AVA was more concerned with whether or not the area’s name is locally or nationally (or internationally) known or famous and US geological survey maps (boundary building). Since when did they decide to define the term “estate”? I don’t understand this ruling, Gary. If one grows his own grapes he/she should be able to label them as “estate grown” (for this is what the term means). If one grows, produces and bottles his/her own wine (on the same premises) he /she should be able to label the wine as “estate bottled”. The small boutique wineries on Long Island who grow their own grapes, but produce their wine at Premium Wine Group (PWG), a custom crush facility, I believe can label their wines as “estate grown” but not “estate bottled”. (Does this only make sense to me?)

Salute

I always thought that the AVA was more concerned with whether or not the area’s name is locally or nationally (or internationally) known or famous and US geological survey maps (boundary building). Since when did they decide to define the term “estate”? I don’t understand this ruling, Gary. If one grows his own grapes he/she should be able to label them as “estate grown” (for this is what the term means). If one grows, produces and bottles his/her own wine (on the same premises) he /she should be able to label the wine as “estate bottled”. The small boutique wineries on Long Island who grow their own grapes, but produce their wine at Premium Wine Group (PWG), a custom crush facility, I believe can label their wines as “estate grown” but not “estate bottled”. (Does this only make sense to me?)

Salute

I do not pretend to understand the vagaries involved and have passed on what was told me by someone who has to get his labels approved every year. But if you can believe the TTB website, his statement is true, to wit:

Type of Appellation of Origin Required

Generally, with two exceptions, any one of the types of appellations (i.e., a country, state, etc.) may be used when an appellation is required. The two exceptions are:

Wine labeled with a vintage date:
The appellation of origin must be a state (or foreign equivalent), multi-state (U.S. wine only), county (or foreign equivalent), multi-county (U.S. wine only) or viticultural area


Wine labeled as “estate bottled”:
The appellation of origin must be a viticultural area

The source page from the TTB website is here: Wine Appellations of Origin . They seem to be silent on "estate grown" and I think he puts that on his back label. Bureaucracy, you gotta love it!

Very interesting. Thanks for the link Gary.

Salute

Very interesting. Thanks for the link Gary. Salute

You're welcome and sorry about the broken link. I fixed it.

Gary:

Sonoma-Cutrer owns and farms six different vineyards. All six are within the Sonoma Coast AVA. Five are within the Russian River Valley AVA. One is in the Sonoma Valley AVA. Each is farmed as a separate estate vineyard.

Sonoma-Cutrer makes four different Chardonnays for regular release.

Three of them (Russian River Ranches, Sonoma Coast, and The Cutrer) carry the designation "Estate Bottled". The fourth, Les Pierres, does not carry that term. It declares "Produced and Bottled By..."---because the winery is in the Russian River Valley AVA and the estate vineyard is in the Sonoma Valley. And the rules say you can't use the term estate bottled if the winery is in one AVA and the vineyard is in another.

But, hey, them's the rules.

Gary:

Sonoma-Cutrer owns and farms six different vineyards. All six are within the Sonoma Coast AVA. Five are within the Russian River Valley AVA. One is in the Sonoma Valley AVA. Each is farmed as a separate estate vineyard.

Sonoma-Cutrer makes four different Chardonnays for regular release.

Three of them (Russian River Ranches, Sonoma Coast, and The Cutrer) carry the designation "Estate Bottled". The fourth, Les Pierres, does not carry that term. It declares "Produced and Bottled By..."---because the winery is in the Russian River Valley AVA and the estate vineyard is in the Sonoma Valley. And the rules say you can't use the term estate bottled if the winery is in one AVA and the vineyard is in another.

But, hey, them's the rules.

Ya' just can't tell the players without a scorecard!