WTN: Gagnard, Siduri

[Jenise]

2000 Jean Noel Gagnard Chassagne Montrachet "Maltroie" Premier Cru
Lemons and diesel on the nose, almonds and lemons on the palate. Big bodied with surprisingly strong acidity for a 7 year old--okay with food, but so hard to drink alone we didn't finish the bottle after dinner. Disappointing.

2002 Siduri "Hirsch Vineyard", Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir
Pulled from a long rest in the cellar just before opening, and not jumbled, the wine came out of the bottle surprisingly cloudy. No fizz or other telltale signs of secondary fermentation, which was our first fear, but it nonetheless had that indistinct, muddied flavor of a wine gone wrong in the bottle. Nose of iodine and black cherries and black fruit, flavor of cherry cake and herbs. I didn't actually pick up on the herbs, but Bob smelled and tasted it, and asked Oregon? No. "Well, there's so much black fruit here. It's California then, coastal? It has that green flavor." Must have been there. Anyway, the first glass drank okay with our dinner of baked ham, but the second glass really fell apart and, once again, we couldn't finish the bottle. Don't know what happened at Siduri in 02, but I have various bottlings from that vintage and all have disappointed over the past year.

Too bad about the Gagnard, I usually like his wines. The only white I had from 2000 was the Les Masures (not a 1er, a lieu-dit!), which was quite good a few years ago.

[Jenise]

Yes, I was disappointed. Didn't expect that much acidity. I have a second bottle, which I'm not sure what to do with now. Maybe I should hold onto it for, say, three more years, see if it calms down any. Would probably rather gamble on that than drink another disappointing bottle.

Yes, I was disappointed. Didn't expect that much acidity. I have a second bottle, which I'm not sure what to do with now. Maybe I should hold onto it for, say, three more years, see if it calms down any. Would probably rather gamble on that than drink another disappointing bottle.

Other option might be to serve with a food that really needs high acidity, more what you mght serve with a Chablis.Something with lemons or tomatoes,

2002 Siduri "Hirsch Vineyard", Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir
Pulled from a long rest in the cellar just before opening, and not jumbled, the wine came out of the bottle surprisingly cloudy. No fizz or other telltale signs of secondary fermentation, which was our first fear, but it nonetheless had that indistinct, muddied flavor of a wine gone wrong in the bottle. Nose of iodine and black cherries and black fruit, flavor of cherry cake and herbs. I didn't actually pick up on the herbs, but Bob smelled and tasted it, and asked Oregon? No. "Well, there's so much black fruit here. It's California then, coastal? It has that green flavor." Must have been there. Anyway, the first glass drank okay with our dinner of baked ham, but the second glass really fell apart and, once again, we couldn't finish the bottle. Don't know what happened at Siduri in 02, but I have various bottlings from that vintage and all have disappointed over the past year.

Jenise, Siduri is IMO not cheap wine, and I suspect that you will agree with that.(even if it is less expensive for you than it is for me) If you have had various bottlings from the winery that have disappointed, would you say that they were off bottles, or would you say they were just not good wine. I am going to guess that you have had Siduri pinot from other years that was excellent.

I am sure you remember a thread where you and I agreed to disagree that a winery should either declassify and reduce the price in not so good (bad) years. I voted yay, and you nay. I am not about to ask if this experience with Siduri affects your thinking on the subject, but it is an excellent example of what I was saying about (again IMO) when a winery makes a wine that is not up to the standard of the winery that the winery should take some action as suggested above.

[Jenise]

Jenise, Siduri is IMO not cheap wine, and I suspect that you will agree with that.(even if it is less expensive for you than it is for me)

Bob, I don't think you and I are as far apart on our price thresholds as you think we are, it's just that I am positioned to get really great deals because I can receive direct shipments from out of state be that from an auction house or winery. If I weren't, I wouldn't be able to afford to drink as well as I do--trust me.

But yeah, Siduri at its retail around $50 or $60, or at the futures price of $35 (before tax and shipping), which is what my records indicate I paid for this, is definitely in that zone where I don't take poor performance lightly. The Rosellas and Van der Kamp from the same vintage have also disappointed recently--okay, so maybe Adam does make long haul wines, but for the money I definitely expect a wine that isn't dead by its fifth birthday. His 99's (Garys' and the Christian David at any rate) were beautiful at this age.

I am sure you remember a thread where you and I agreed to disagree that a winery should either declassify and reduce the price in not so good (bad) years. I voted yay, and you nay. I am not about to ask if this experience with Siduri affects your thinking on the subject, but it is an excellent example of what I was saying about (again IMO) when a winery makes a wine that is not up to the standard of the winery that the winery should take some action as suggested above.

Of course I remember. And no, this doesn't change my thinking. After all, we're having this conversation five years out. On release, the future could have looked quite different, and anyone who drank these wines in the three years after release may have been quite happy--I can't remember a vintage that Adam didn't get raves for from the professional critics. So no, I'm not sitting here thinking I should have been charged less for these, only that I should buy Siduri with caution in the future. This was the last vintage I bought whole cases of, and only because I was pretty backed up on pinot and didn't need to add to a stash I was having a hard time getting around to. But now it might be the last because these 02's were so disappointing. I think Adam and Dianna are really super people and I love their success, but I can't afford to have wine rot on me like this.

2002 Siduri "Hirsch Vineyard", Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir

One leading wine rag said to drink through 2008 -- it just shows how much the crystal ball is worth, eh?

Thanks for the notes.

2002 Siduri "Hirsch Vineyard", Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir[/b]

Hmmm ... A 5 year old wine from one of the great Cali vineyards should be drinking better than this. I had the 2000 about 3 weeks ago and I was not crazy about it. Oily and a bit flabby. Others really liked it.

Jason

[David M. Bueker]

You know I have rarely had a Siduri wine I preferred with age on it to when it was released. Matter of fact I can't think of any Siduri wine I preferred with more than a year or two of age on it.

Jenise,
What closure was used on your bottle? One of the most disappointing wine experiences of my life was a '96 Siduri PN that I opened '03: it was sealed with a fake cork and was completely DOA. Yours doesn't sound quite like the same phenomenon, but I'll ask anyway.

Mark Lipton

[Jenise]

Mark, it's regular cork. I thought Adam stopped using the alternative closures years ago--he used synthetic corks initially.

One of the most disappointing wine experiences of my life was a '96 Siduri PN

Wow. I didn't realize you were so emotionally invested in California Pinot? Perhaps that was in the past as I don't recall seeing California Pinot notes from you in recent years?

Or has the rest of your wine drinking life just been that Disappointment Free?

One of the most disappointing wine experiences of my life was a '96 Siduri PN

Wow. I didn't realize you were so emotionally invested in California Pinot? Perhaps that was in the past as I don't recall seeing California Pinot notes from you in recent years?

Or has the rest of your wine drinking life just been that Disappointment Free?

True, I don't drink nearly as much CA Pinot now as then. However, the disappointment stemmed more from the extreme state of lifelessness of the wine. To me, having something that I can either like or dislike is less disappointing than drinking a vinous corpse. This is the reason that I don't let my Pepieres sit around for any length of time.

Mark Lipton