The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

North Korea

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

WWLL

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

33

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:15 pm

North Korea

by WWLL » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:44 pm

I did not taste one drop of wine in North Korea but if you are interested in my impressions from five days in North Korea, read on.

About 150 photos are at

http://www.pbase.com/wwll/dprk

I went with a tour from Hong Kong.

North Korea, they call themselves Choson, is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK). Their official website is http://www.korea-dpr.com/ It is probably the poorest nation I have visited. These are some signs of its poverty:

- Walking appears to be the primary mode of transportation. I saw people working in the fields and nowhere is there a house or vehicle in sight, so they must have walked to where they were working.

- To save on petrol which is 100% imported, cars and buses are not allowed to run on Sundays.

- People wash their clothes in streams. In one case I saw two women washing just upstream from a direct-deposit outhouse.

- Cows are used for ploughing fields.

- In stark contrast to Hong Kong, nobody walks around with bags of purchases.

- Houses in cities are sometimes dilapidated. Houses in the countryside are huts.

Our guides gave three reasons for their poverty:

- From 1992 to 2006 there have been agricultural failures.

- Trade with Eastern European countries died with the collapse of the Soviet Union.

- The US economic boycott.

The nation provides its people with

- free education through high school

- free medical care

- free housing, about 100 square meters for a family.

Upon arrival at Pyongyang Airport we were greeted by a giant photo of Dear Leader Kim Jong-Il. This reminds me of the giant photo of Mao in TianAnMan Square. With our IL-62 as the only plane in sight, the bags took forever to come out. Then I spotted the reason. A conveyor belt brings the bags into the building and their is another belt that goes around allowing people to claim the bags. Here the transfer between the belts was done by two young women in high heels.

In the capital Pyongyang we were billeted at the Yanggakdo International Hotel. Yanggakdo means sheep's corner island and the hotel is the only thing on the island other than a 9-hole golf course. It stands 48-stories high and can be seen from almost everywhere in Pyongyang. It is supposed to be the best in Pyongyang but it is not much better than a Motel 6. In my room there are two single beds with hard mattresses. The towels are small. The heating/air-conditioning does not work. Fortunately the double windows open. On the television there is BBC World, several Chinese stations, two Russian stations and one local station. Instead of some meaningless painting on the wall, there is a calendar. There are several restaurants, a shop, a bookstore, a bowling alley, a swimming pool but no gym. There is a revolving restaurant on the 47th floor but it does not rotate. In the basement is the only casino in North Korea, operated by Chinese people from Macau. All currencies are accepted but at the tables the bets are in US dollars. When I was there was one table of baccarat and one table of blackjack.

Our first expedition was to Panmunjom, or the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) at the 38th parallel. From Pyongyang it is about a two-hour drive. The roads are pretty bad, the equivalent of small country roads in the USA, devoid of traffic but with plenty of pot holes. There were lots of walkers and bicycles but no motorcycles. Curiously, many bicyclists walk their bikes. Along the road there were about 19 tunnels. All were completely dark with no lighting. There were checkpoints along the road, with the inspection more detailed as we approached the border.

North Korea is rather mountainous so every possible square meter is farmed. Looking from the bus, I saw that almost everywhere it has been de-forested and re-planting has been very recent.

The DMZ is a two kilometer stretch along each side of the border so it is four kilometers in width. We stopped in a building outside the DMZ, picked up a retired military officer as our guide, listened to a short briefing and walked 10 meters into the DMZ to re-board our bus. The DMZ looks just like other parts of DPRK, with farming. From the South Korean side we know that the area has lots of tunnels and lots of military in hiding.

We arrived at the border and casually walked to the dividing line. We passed a giant monolith with Kim Il-Sung's signature, written hours before his death. First we entered the building where the first negotiations took place. We sat at the negotiation table and listened to the retired officer. This building straddles the border. When you look out the window you can see a concrete line on the ground. That is the actual border. On one side stand the brown-shirted soldiers of the DPRK. Since this was Sunday there were no South Korean soldiers on the other side. Next we went to the building where the armistice was signed. The tables where the signing took place are still there. The officer claimed this is where the US imperialists bended their knees to the Korean people. Afterwards we went up to the balcony of the main DPRK building at Panmunjom for better picture taking. Before leaving, I had my picture taken with the DPRK officer.

We stopped for lunch at Kaesong. Kaesong was the capital of the Koryo Dynasty from 918 to 1392 C. E. Our lunch came in nine copper bowls. A characteristic of much Korean cooking is that they eat things cold. We paid extra for a chicken stewed with ginseng. People from our group said the same dish cost 2.5 times less in South Korea.

After lunch we went to a museum. There was not much to see but the guide was very pretty. On the way back to Pyongyang I thought I saw a prison camp. It consists of a series of single-story buildings with a wall all around.

Back in Pyongyang we went for a ride in the subway or metro. Those familiar with Russian metros will immediately recognize this metro. The same design philosophy of using very deep tunnels doubling as a bomb shelter is here. The elaborate art work at the stations is here. The only thing different here is the latch for opening the car doors from the Paris metro is here.

We ended the day with a hot pot dinner. It consisted of some fatty pork to be cooked in individual stoves.

Bright and early we departed for Mt. Myohyand which means Wonderfully Fragrant Hill. About 90 minutes from Pyongyang, the air is fresh here. We are here to see the International Friendship Exhibition. Two massive buildings house gifts from around the world to Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il.

In the building of gifts to Kim Il-Sung, gifts from specific countries and regions are in different rooms. In the building that houses gifts to the current leader, the gifts are grouped chronologically. The gifts from South Korea to the current leader are in a separate room. There is a room of posthumous gifts to Kim Il-Sung. It is the most eerie room. Gifts vary from museum quality art to the mundane. There is a jade mountain as well as shirts and a ghetto blaster. Stalin and Mao each gave a rail car. The one given by Mao only has a squat toilet. Stalin also gave the elder Kim a bullet-proof car. Each item has a caption in Korean and English.

We had to wear little booties to traverse the kilometers of halls. The copper doors to the building that house gifts to Kim Il-Sung weigh four tons but are perfectly balanced so even a weakling can open it. A soldier carrying a sub-machine gun stands at guard. The building of gifts to Kim Jong-Il is all marble. In this marble palace, even the toilets are made of marble. But the designers neglected to consider ventilation and the toilets were smelly. There is no soap or towels.

There are very few gifts from the USA. President Jimmy Carter gave a small glass dish, the size of an ash tray.

We made a quick trip to a Buddhist Temple. The original was first constructed in 1042 C. E. Those familiar with Chinese architecture will immediately recognize it as a Tang Dynasty structure. It was bombed during the Korean War and re-built. There seems to be nothing in North Korea that predates the Korean War. The grounds have wonderful flowers.

Upon return to Pyongyang we toured the Wartime and Revolution Museum. This is simply a re-enactment of the Korean War, called "the US war," in pictures and artifacts. We had a very pretty guide who spoke perfect Putonghua. We asked and she said she learned in university. We were shown a 360-degree diorama of the furthest advance of the DPRK army into South Korea, complete with a revolving viewing platform. I wanted to ask why the DPRK army advanced so far into South Korea if the Americans started the war. In the basement there is a huge collection of military equipment, from tanks, to airplanes, even a submarine.

For dinner we had cold noodles. It was a rather meager meal.

That night we went to a saline hot springs at Lung Hong. This is a resort for VIPs but now open to paying guests. At specific times the salty hot water came into the bathtub in our rooms. We soaked that night and again before breakfast. Unfortunately there were several power outages during the night.

The next morning we went to Nampo where there is a 8-km long dike. This dike serves several purposes; the main one is to prevent floods in Pyongyang. The project also saves fresh water from entering the sea, creating a huge freshwater lake for fishing.

We went back to the Yanggakdo International Hotel and had lunch Korean style. While the food was similar, the men sat bow-legged while the women knelt.

In the afternoon we went to Mansu (Ten Thousand Birthdays) Podium, an urban park. Wedding couples would first go place flowers at a statute of Kim Il-Sung and then come here for photos. This was a good day for weddings and we saw many newlyweds. From my photos you can see how pretty North Korean women are and how much people enjoy themselves. Some of our group went crazy taking pictures and even barged into people's shoots.

Then it was onto the Youth Palace. This is an after-school activity center where the activities range from calligraphy to kick-boxing. Kids come and do the activities for free but must graduate to the next level in three years. We were treated to short demonstrations in various rooms, from a four-piano piece, to an accordion performance where one girl was almost smaller than the accordion, to a very professional zitar performance. In the computer room, kids were actually writing code. As in everywhere else, there is a photograph of the two Kims in every room.

At five o'clock we went to the weekly performance. The show included singing, dancing, and music performance. It was all very professional. We had the best seats in the house. Unfortunately the power went out after 45 minutes and the show ended prematurely. Some of us offered flowers to the performers. As we were leaving the kids had fun looking at these visitors.

And now for the food in Choson. For the first time in my travels, I packed a can of corned beef, a pouch of tuna and took some bowls of noodles. Fortunately I did not need them. With every meal we had tofu and scrambled eggs. Kimchi was generally available, even for breakfast. Meat was in short supply. We ate more rice to compensate. We had a duck BBQ but visions of Peking duck or even Guangdong roast duck were dashed as we each got a small plate of duck meat to put on the grill. At each lunch and dinner we got two bottles of beer. Quality control is apparently nonexistent as each bottle tasted different. My bottle of duty-free Scotch came in handy.

On the day of our departure we went for a series of photo opportunities, at Kim Il-Sung Square, Juche Tower, the Arch of Triumph and a Tower commemorating the Chinese volunteers in the Korean War.

At Pyongyang Airport we noticed there were only three departures scheduled that day, one of them a charter. We left on a Russian copy of a Boeing 727.

The DPRK officers would not stamp my passport, even though I asked for one. They also take back the visa. Our guides kept our passports the whole time we were in DPRK.

As we experience culture shock upon returning to Shenyang with its KFC, McDonalds and Starbucks, it was time to reflect on our experience in North Korea. This has not been a trip for pampering or cultural climaxes. We had been to a country, due to its self-imposed isolation, was near starvation by its own admission. As China and Russia have found out, tourism can bring easy foreign exchange. Yet our guides admitted the government is unwilling to show the world Choson. In our five days there, I saw five white persons. Most of the tourists were from China. The day after we left, train service became possible between North and South Korea became possible for the first time in 50 years. Our guides doubted whether there will be an influx of tourists. Every price, except for the rare kiosks, was fixed by the government, and for foreigners they are sky high. Experienced travelers from our group estimate prices in North Korea are up to ten times higher than in South Korea or nearby China.

I cannot but think of the similarities between Choson and China of the 1960's. From the drab dress, to the military being everywhere, to people afraid to talk to outsiders for fear of being reported, to near famine, it is all the same.

Yet we were treated differently than what other travelers have reported on the internet. We were not accompanied at all times by a political operative. Except for the officer who guided us around in the DMZ, our guides did not pile on the propaganda nor prohibit us from taking pictures. Perhaps that was because we were from a friendly communist country. Actually our guides were quite frank about the difficulties they have been experiencing.

This trip has been exciting for me in a way. I saw what few have seen. I can only hope that the future is better for the North Koreans.

^^^^

The tour

Our tour was operated by Modern China Travel from Hong Kong (http://www.modernchinatravel.com). We first went to Shenyang in China. Shenyang is one of only two cities in China with regular air service to Pyongyang. Because of the air schedule, we spent the first night in Shenyang and then spent two more nights in Shenyang on our return. We spent four nights in North Korea.

I traveled on a passport from the People's Republic of China, Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. The brochure from Modern China Travel said that no one traveling on a South Korean or a USA passport will be accepted.

The tour cost was HK$8999 per person. With all the fees and the single supplement, my total cost was HK$11949 (US$1551). This included all air fare, all accommodations and all meals.

There were only nine of us. All the tour members have been to many continents. There were no couples, no smokers and no late-comers. A guide accompanied us throughout and in North Korea we had two guides with us at all times. The tour was conducted in Putonghua, the official language of China.
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

11057

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: North Korea

by James Roscoe » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:47 pm

Why?
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
no avatar
User

Robin Garr

Rank

Forum Janitor

Posts

21845

Joined

Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:44 pm

Location

Louisville, KY

Re: North Korea

by Robin Garr » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:48 am

James Roscoe wrote:Why?


Why not? I thought it was a very interesting report, and I appreciate WWLL taking the time to share it.
no avatar
User

Keith M

Rank

Beer Explorer

Posts

1184

Joined

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:25 am

Location

Finger Lakes, New York

Re: North Korea

by Keith M » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:15 am

Thanks for the report. It was very interesting and the photos were absolutely amazing. I was particularly amused by the one with the traffic cop in the middle of the street, but not much traffic to direct.

WWLL wrote:Yet we were treated differently than what other travelers have reported on the internet. We were not accompanied at all times by a political operative. Except for the officer who guided us around in the DMZ, our guides did not pile on the propaganda nor prohibit us from taking pictures. Perhaps that was because we were from a friendly communist country. Actually our guides were quite frank about the difficulties they have been experiencing.


I am surprised to hear this. I wonder why your experience was so different. A recent article in the Economist had a dispatch from a correspondent who apparently joined up with a tour group similar to the one you went on--so if the government of the DPRK is paranoid about Western media and intelligence operatives, having a Chinese passport doesn't seem to be much of a screening mechanism (especially when residents of Hong Kong are included?).

Nonetheless, very very interesting post and reflections on your trip. And it was great to see the photos of the mundane stuff. I have to say I was surprised to see street vendors.
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: North Korea

by Stuart Yaniger » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:27 am

Why does this remind me of "Holidays in Hell?"

WWLL, thanks!
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9649

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: North Korea

by Rahsaan » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:46 am

Yes, thanks for the report. I wanted to go to North Korea back in 1999 when I was living in Japan, but never got the chance.

What was the story behind the USS Pueblo ship?
no avatar
User

Randy Buckner

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1708

Joined

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:46 am

Location

Puget Sound

Re: North Korea

by Randy Buckner » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:56 am

Why not?


- It is a highly centralized communist state
- The government severely restricts religious activity
- North Korea is not a member of the Chemical Weapons Convention
- It is not a member of the Missile Technology Control Regime
- Citizens are not allowed to freely speak their minds and the government detains those who criticize the regime
- The only legal radio, television, and news organizations are operated by the government
- The regime denies North Koreans all basic rights, subjects tens of thousands of political prisoners to brutal conditions, and maintains a largely isolationist foreign policy
- Babies born with physical defects are rapidly put to death and buried
- Multiple international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, accuse North Korea of having one of the worst human rights records of any nation

How are those for a few starters? I would not give a nickle of my tourist dollars to such a sordid regime.
no avatar
User

James Roscoe

Rank

Chat Prince

Posts

11057

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:43 pm

Location

D.C. Metro Area - Maryland

Re: North Korea

by James Roscoe » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:32 pm

Robin Garr wrote:
James Roscoe wrote:Why?


Why not? I thought it was a very interesting report, and I appreciate WWLL taking the time to share it.


I found it interesting as well, but my question remains. Randy answers some of the why not questions. Why would someone subject themselves to this type of travel for that amount of money? Was it a business trip? I see there were interesting sights, but were they worth it? I'm trying to expand my horizons and be sucinct at the same time. Perhaps I was too laconic.
Yes, and how many deaths will it take 'til he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind.
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: North Korea

by Hoke » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:56 pm

Rahsaan wrote:Yes, thanks for the report. I wanted to go to North Korea back in 1999 when I was living in Japan, but never got the chance.

What was the story behind the USS Pueblo ship?


I can only imagine the story the NK's tell, Rahsaan, but my side (somewhat tainted by being involved in the aftermath) was that the US was operating a ship, supposedly in international waters, which was monitoring (i.e., spying on) NK electronic traffic. The NKs said they were in their territorial waters so they attacked the ship, killed some people, and captured the rest. Big international incident, especially as the NKs were displaying the prisoners on tv, etc. Saber rattling ensued.

The aftermath part (where I came in) was that the US was convinced we were going to have Korea II, so a big buildup of forces was established in South Korea. Including me. Long story. I'll tell you sometime when we have the occasion and the wine. Or I'll tell you until your eyes start glazing over, anyway. :wink:

Eventually, they released the US prisoners and things calmed down. Then certain elements of the US tried to defame the commander Lloyd Bucher) and crew of the ship, mostly for "allowing" themselves to get captured and then criticisms of how the behaved while captured. You know, the usual crap that floats to the surface.

Eventually, everybody went home, or back to Viet Nam from our side, and the NKs continued using the incident as propaganda.
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9649

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: North Korea

by Rahsaan » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:20 pm

Hoke wrote:I can only imagine the story the NK's tell, Rahsaan, but my side (somewhat tainted by being involved in the aftermath) was that the US was operating a ship, supposedly in international waters, which was monitoring (i.e., spying on) NK electronic traffic. The NKs said they were in their territorial waters so they attacked the ship, killed some people, and captured the rest. Big international incident, especially as the NKs were displaying the prisoners on tv, etc. Saber rattling ensued.

The aftermath part (where I came in) was that the US was convinced we were going to have Korea II, so a big buildup of forces was established in South Korea. Including me. Long story. I'll tell you sometime when we have the occasion and the wine. Or I'll tell you until your eyes start glazing over, anyway. :wink:

Eventually, they released the US prisoners and things calmed down. Then certain elements of the US tried to defame the commander Lloyd Bucher) and crew of the ship, mostly for "allowing" themselves to get captured and then criticisms of how the behaved while captured. You know, the usual crap that floats to the surface.

Eventually, everybody went home, or back to Viet Nam from our side, and the NKs continued using the incident as propaganda.


Thanks! What a resource. Big Businessman for California Organic Wine Producers and Former Player in Grand North East Asian Politics!

I thought it might be something like what you described, and felt safe in assuming there were no Americans on hand for working at the Souvenir Counter on board the ship.
no avatar
User

Bob Ross

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

5703

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:39 pm

Location

Franklin Lakes, NJ

Re: North Korea

by Bob Ross » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:58 pm

Hoke, I'm fascinated with your involvement in the Pueblo incident.

A couple of clarifications:

No US personnel were killed; Bucher decided to give up to avoid casualties -- he said later that he thought lives more important than the ship.

One battle after the fact was between Bucher's No. 2 Murphy who wrote a book comparing Bucher to Captain Queeg -- drunk on duty, incompetent, etc. Bucher wrote his own version of reality attacking Murphy and to a certain extent his own superior officers.

Regards, Bob
no avatar
User

Hoke

Rank

Achieving Wine Immortality

Posts

11420

Joined

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:07 am

Location

Portland, OR

Re: North Korea

by Hoke » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:53 am

Rahsaan:

Not big, not a very good businessman, and rather than a former player, substitute "a very small, insignificant cog in a very large machine".

Bob:

See how memories can play us false. I thought I remembered a death or deaths from the initial takeover of the ship.

As to the stories about Bucher, and the counter stories, yes, I do recall those quite well. Also the various interviews and comments of the crew members, and what they went through.

What I specifically do recall though is being whisked from a subtropical island to four hours later being deposited (with my subtropical gear) onto a frozen tarmac a few hundred feet from the Yellow Sea to guard some newly arrived aircraft, with a razor sharp wind blowing off the ocean and a temp of 30 Below F. (and that was the high that day). The cold weather gear from Alaska hadn't arrived yet for the influx of personnel, so I stood there for 12 hours of the longest night of my life, standing my post. If not for the kind hearted intervention of a crew chief with a turbine for thawing out frozen wheels, I suspect I would be missing some toes right now (some of the guys did get frostbite within the first two days; and even a few afterwards). The next month or so was more of the same, interspersed with moments of terror and boredom. Trouble was you never knew which it was going to be.

I was almost nineteen at the time. With the training, the ability, the authority, and the opportunity to kill another human being with little or no ramifications.
no avatar
User

Bob Ross

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

5703

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:39 pm

Location

Franklin Lakes, NJ

Re: North Korea

by Bob Ross » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:03 am

Hoke, thank you for a beautifully written memoir. And, your memory is better than mine -- one man was killed in the initial attack, and a number injured. [I saw that "number were killed" and over-reacted.]

1968 was an amazing year in my life as it was in yours. Thanks for sharing that experience.

Regards, Bob
no avatar
User

Eric Ifune

Rank

Ultra geek

Posts

196

Joined

Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:51 pm

Location

Las Vegas, NV and elsewhere

Re: North Korea

by Eric Ifune » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:07 am

US military members can visit the DMZ, from the South of course. I wanted to visit but never got the chance. I always had the strange desire to drop a Snickers bar on the North side to see what would happen.
no avatar
User

Randy Buckner

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

1708

Joined

Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:46 am

Location

Puget Sound

Re: North Korea

by Randy Buckner » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:07 am

No US personnel were killed; Bucher decided to give up to avoid casualties -- he said later that he thought lives more important than the ship.


A US sailor, Fireman Apprentice Duane Hodges, was killed.
no avatar
User

Bob Ross

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

5703

Joined

Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:39 pm

Location

Franklin Lakes, NJ

Re: North Korea

by Bob Ross » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:20 am

You are right, Randy. Sorry. As noted above, I over-reacted to one of Hoke's comments.

It's worth mentioning, I think,that Hodges is sometimes confused with Roger J Hammond, a Marine, who won the Naval Cross for offering to die in a successful effort to get the North Koreans to stop torturing the POWs.

Duane Hodges, a US Navy Fireman, won the Silver Star for his efforts to destroy documents during the attack, giving his life in the process.

Carl Schumacher, Lieutenant, U.S. Navy, also won a Silver Star for his actions during the attack.

The awards are described here.

Regards, Bob
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: North Korea

by Stuart Yaniger » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:48 am

No one should visit North Korea without bringing several copies of "Team America."

F@!#, yeah!
no avatar
User

Shaji M

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

669

Joined

Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: North Korea

by Shaji M » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:11 am

WWLL,
What a fascinating article! Thanks for a well written first hand report. My favorite picture by the way, was that of the traffic cop with hardly any traffic! Were there any restrictions on taking photographs?
no avatar
User

WWLL

Rank

Wine geek

Posts

33

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:15 pm

Re: North Korea

by WWLL » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:06 am

Shali

There were no traffic signals in Pyongyang.

A time or two our guides asked us not to take pictures. One was a toilet.
no avatar
User

Jenise

Rank

FLDG Dishwasher

Posts

44559

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:45 pm

Location

The Pacific Northest Westest

Re: North Korea

by Jenise » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:15 pm

WWLL, you're the first person I've ever know--well, the first civilian anyway--to have visited North Korea. I wasn't aware they allowed any tourists at all. Thanks so much for the narrative and the pictures. Fascinating!
My wine shopping and I have never had a problem. Just a perpetual race between the bankruptcy court and Hell.--Rogov
no avatar
User

Kyrstyn Kralovec

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

616

Joined

Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:50 pm

Location

Washington DC, Oregon bound

Re: North Korea

by Kyrstyn Kralovec » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:26 pm

Our first expedition was to Panmunjom, or the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) at the 38th parallel. From Pyongyang it is about a two-hour drive. The roads are pretty bad, the equivalent of small country roads in the USA, devoid of traffic but with plenty of pot holes. There were lots of walkers and bicycles but no motorcycles. Curiously, many bicyclists walk their bikes. Along the road there were about 19 tunnels. All were completely dark with no lighting. There were checkpoints along the road, with the inspection more detailed as we approached the border.


Seems I recall hearing/reading somewhere that the government once handed out a large number of bicycles to the population just before some visitors and press were due to arrive in the country, in order to make the residents seem more prosperous. The problem was that none of them knew how to ride the bikes, so the press got a bunch of pictures of people walking them along, just as you described. I have no idea if this is true or not, but found it interesting that you mentioned the walking thing...

Regarding the questions as to why one would visit such a regime; I understand not wanting to support such a tyranny, but the way I rationalized it when I went to Burma (Myanmar) was that if I could get the chance to talk to just one or two locals and let them know a little about the outside world, then it could only be a good thing. Although to be honest, I found a number of people to be very nervous about talking to a foreigner at all, as though they feared they'd end up being interrogated afterwards.
I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. ~John Galt
no avatar
User

Stuart Yaniger

Rank

Stud Muffin

Posts

4348

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:28 pm

Location

Big Sky

Re: North Korea

by Stuart Yaniger » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:19 am

no avatar
User

Paul B.

Rank

Hybrid Guru

Posts

2063

Joined

Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:38 pm

Location

Ontario, Canada

Re: North Korea

by Paul B. » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:07 am

A truly fascinating travel report. In some ways the pictures remind me of Poland back in '89 when I visited for the first time. All the communist infrastructure seems similar.
http://hybridwines.blogspot.ca
no avatar
User

Bernard Roth

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

789

Joined

Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:31 pm

Location

Santa Barbara, CA

Re: North Korea

by Bernard Roth » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:00 am

Thanks for taking the time to post the travelogue.

I can't help but feel that isolation is not going to solve the problems in NK. Diplomatic isolation has not engendered a solution to the nuclear issues and economic isolation is unlikely to solve the political problems.
Regards,
Bernard Roth

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, Amazonbot, Bing [Bot], ByteSpider, ClaudeBot, DotBot, Google AgentMatch and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign