As a tasting term, do you prefer "animal" or "musky"?

OK, I'm also willing to accept that these two don't mean exactly the same thing.

Sure, I get lots of Google hits for "animal," but something repels me about using this word...

What is your take, please?

There's being accurate and then there's being positive: do you not find that "animal nuances" on the nose puts you off? Should a producer put this on his back label?

Best regards,
Alex R.

For whatever reason I think "animale" works better in French, where I often understand it as a term to describe the wild and savage notes (in addition to the literal animal notes), whereas "animal" in English to me just means that it smells like an animal.

I think "animal" is more like "gamey" than "musky."

Alex,

I think that "animal" in the French wine vocabulary is far wider than any one word in English. In le Classement's glossary they define it as "Ensemble d'odeurs du règne animal (venaison, musc, cuir). Autrefois recherchées dans les vins rouges vieux, maintenant souvent perçues comme un défaut."

On reflection, I can think of no better translation than the English word "animal". Like the French word it covers a multitude of virtues and sins.

It is clearly better, if possible, to be more precise. Game and leather notes are positive for many, me included, sweat slightly less so and frankly barnyard notes usually negative except in a very small concentrations.

[Robin Garr]

I think that "animal" in the French wine vocabulary is far wider than any one word in English. In le Classement's glossary they define it as "Ensemble d'odeurs du règne animal (venaison, musc, cuir). Autrefois recherchées dans les vins rouges vieux, maintenant souvent perçues comme un défaut."

Very interesting! I agree and would also argue that "animal" and "musky" are not at all synonymous. Musk is a very specific descriptor. "Animal," as Tim's quote demonstrates, is very broad ... maybe too broad to be useful. This is a case where a more specific term is far more useful, from "barnyard" to "leather," "horsey," "chicken $#!+" or even, maybe, "musk."

I'll go along with Robin and Tim: musky or musk is a specific pungent aroma to me, whereas the "animal" that you refer to I pick up as "animale"---and that's largely because earlier in my career I was influenced by smelling that particular range of odors whilst in the company of an Italian gentleman who used the term. So now that's what I think when I smell it.

Rightly or wrongly, I think of musk as more akin to aroma, whereas the animale hits me as bouquet---or in other words, musky is primary and animale is distinctly a secondary developed odor.

But that's just me.

As a tasting term, do you prefer "animal" or "musky"?

To me they are different things - and animal is very broad -what animal?
I prefer gamey to describe some funky animal smells, but musky to me is more floral - like the musk scent of a rose or muscat grapes - and I do use this descriptor quite a lot. I find it in pinot noir and syrah.
I suppose there is animal musk too - like in a well known brand of aftershave lotion that someone once gave my bearded husband. But I haven't really smelt the pungency of that aroma in wine.

Cheers,
Sue

To me, the two terms are distinctly different: "animal" denotes a gamey/raw-meat-type aroma, whereas "musky" is very much like the aroma you get on your fingers after handling ripe strawberries or pineapple - and that sweet, high-toned musk is exactly the same aroma that is so prominent on the finish of wines made from well-ripened labrusca grapes.

The "animal" aroma is very much something that makes me think Syrah, Malbec, Marechal Foch ... whereas "musky" is pretty much Concord, Niagara, Catawba, etc.

Thanks for your input.

Just 2 questions now.

1) Do you agree with Tim York that "animal" is the best way of putting the French descriptor of the same name into English?

2) Have any of you ever had a wine with a "musky" aroma? Do you agree with Paul B.'s description?

I might add that I translate a lot of wine texts, and that's why I'm asking these questions.

Best regards,
Alex R.

Do you agree with Tim York that "animal" is the best way of putting the French descriptor of the same name into English?

I thought Tim was saying that "animal" was not the best way to translate "animale" into English, because "animale" is much broader than the English descriptor. Which I do agree with by the way.

Rahsaan, I changed my mind while writing the note. "Animal" in French is a recognised broad spectrum wine adjective. "Animal" in English in less recognised but, in my view, the only broad spectrum way of translating "animal"; in other words it is not a false friend.

It is obviously better if more precise vocabulary can be used.

Personally I never use the term "musky" and do not know exactly what it means.

Thanks guys.

The consensus seems to be:

- no English speaker (not a wine geek one, anyway) would be shocked by the adjective "animal".

- musky is largely misunderstood and unrecognized, therefore best avoided.

Thanks,
Alex

I was just flicking through the Johnson/Robertson World Atlas of Wine chapter on grape varieties and note that they use "animal" as a descriptor for one of the attributes of Mourvèdre.

What better authority?

Thanks guys.

The consensus seems to be:

- no English speaker (not a wine geek one, anyway) would be shocked by the adjective "animal".

- musky is largely misunderstood and unrecognized, therefore best avoided.

Thanks,
Alex

I disagree with musk - it can clearly be described as animal musk or flower musk. Now if you are looking for terms that are misunderstood, think of the Question and Answer game that starts with "It is animal, mineral or vegetable?" One of these categories is a trendy wine descriptor these days - but what does it mean?
Cheers,
Sue