WTN: Two Albarinos...(short/boring)

Tried these two side-by-side ystrday w/ Gougeres and FrommageFort:
1. Licia RiasBaixas Albarino (12.5%) Light yellow comor; lovely fragrant/perfumed/floral some stoney/minerally/steely very attractive nose; very tart/steely strong grapefruity/floral/minerally flavor; very long steely/minerally/chalky/stoney quite floral/perfumed finish; an absolutely lovely Albarino at a very good price. $17.00
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2. BonnyDoon Ca'del Solo Ca'del Solo Vnyd/MontereyCnty Albarino (12.5%) 2006: Very pale near colorless; rather floral/carnation/pineapply/JR-like slight creamy/milky nose; soft/lush simple pineapply/JR-like flavor; short very pineapply slight floral/carnations finish; a rather simple white that speaks more of JohannisbergRiesling than of Albarino. $19.00
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UnPetite BloodyPulpit:
1. Both of these wines were likable/pretty drinkable wines. The Licia was one of the best Albarino I've had in some time. However, if the winemakers would have picked at 28Brix, did extended battonage, a full ML fermentation, aged for a yr in brand-new toasty/Fr.oak...then we would be talking serious juice here. Won't these people EVER learn about WineMaking101??
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2. I was expecting more from the BonnyDoon; given the new direction Randall is taking his wnry. It seemed much more like a pleasant/simple Calif JR than Albarino. But, then, who's to say exactly HOW Soledad Albarino is supposed to taste. I'm not one to worship at the altar of varietal typicity.
TomHill

I was expecting more from the BonnyDoon; given the new direction Randall is taking his wnry.

For those of us who don't follow terribly closely, what might that direction be?

Rahsaan,
BonnyDoon had gotten way to big for Randall's comfort I think. So he sold off the BigHouse label and some other things. The PacificRim Riesling was established as a separate operation up in WashState. The Ca'del Solo line will now be focused on wines made from his Soledad vnyd. He scaled back his operation quite a bit. He was the original RhoneRanger but is no longer really a part of that mevement. He's made some stunning wines over the yrs, but there was a lot of stuff under his label that was hardly that anymore. Plus the mid-life crisis he's been dealing w/ for many a yr (at some low level) has finally come to end; he's married (I think) and has a terrific little girl. So I think Randall is now a bit more focused on making really GREAT Calif wines than he was of late. He's always been a sort of a loose cannon and very unfocused. I think that that has changed...though this Albarino doesn't reflect that.
Anyway, I'm keeping my eye on what Randall is doing these days. He's an incredibly bright guy and a very talented winemaker.
So...now you know the rest of the story...more than you wanted to know.
Tom

Rahsaan,
BonnyDoon had gotten way to big for Randall's comfort I think. So he sold off the BigHouse label and some other things.

Sounds like a good direction.

Thanks.

Re the Monterey Albarino, Tom:

I'd say that the aromas/tastes you reported on there are due primarily to stylistic decisions. At least, more so than fruit source.

A friend winemaker played around with some albarino in Monterey for a few years, and had some high hopes for it, as even for young vines it was producing some nice tightly structured fruit. Now this guy was also a damned fine Riesling winemaker as well. There was no mistaking the Riesling and the Albarino he made, as they were very much different.

Unfortunately, he moved on to another position and lost access to the Albarino planting, so we'll never know how that might've turned out. Such is the wine life.

If you haven't already, try Luisa Lundquist's Verdad Albarino from further south. I think it is an exceptional version of the variety, and the best I've had from California. Short supply, obviously, but worth pursuing.

And as another by the way, while in Minneapolis this past weekend I had the chance to sneak a quick tasting of Greg Graziano's Coro Mendocino. Nice; very nice; intriguing twist in the way he "Italianized" the Mendocino Zinfandel. Definitely Italianate, and not Rhonish in style.

[Jenise]

I'm surprised on the price of that Bonny Doon. That feels overpriced for a Ca'del Solo these days.

If you haven't already, try Luisa Lundquist's Verdad Albarino from further south. I think it is an exceptional version of the variety, and the best I've had from California. Short supply, obviously, but worth pursuing.

I've followed Luisa's Albarino from the very start. It's my benchmark for Calif.
Also, Casey Hartlip at EaglePointRanch in Mendo has an '06 that's mighty fine
Albarino.
Spanish Albarino can often have screechily high acidities. Most Calif versions have more of a lushness to them, but still a solid acidic backbone. It's a good grape.
Tom

Albarino is a good grape, Tom. And I think it may have some excellent applications in CA, as in its orginal location it was a variety developed in and for a riverine climate with possible maritime influences.

And, gee, look what most of the really good growing areas in California are......

Have been drinking more and more Albarino lately and fortunately they seem to becoming more and more available here in St. Louis. Nice acidity, little or no oak and go great with lighter dishes. Have to admit, like sangiovese, CB and Pinot Grigio I only drink Albarino from where I think it should be made, Spain. Hoke does not completely agree but I am an old guy.

Interesting about Randal. He certainly is an interesting guy and definitely an original Rhone Ranger but I never warmed to his wines and somehow Albarino from CA seems just too much of a stretch.

Walt

Hey, Walt, I'm an old guy too (but still young at heart, I hope). So why the insistence on Albarino only being made from Spain (and by inference you must mean only the Galician area of Spain---although a heck of a lot of Albarino is made in Portugal, albeit they pronounce it a bit differently).

So if we've already got Spain and Portugal, why can't the grape be grown in other areas. Just because they started in a certain riverine area on a peninsula in Europe (which is, in itself, a peninsula, as I recall from my Geography class), why should Albarino be limited to that particular place? I don't understand that.

Oh, wait---unless you're just being curmudgeonly stubborn, arbitrarily resistant to change, stuck in your ways, and unwilling to embrace new ideas.

Hey, Walt, I'm an old guy too (but still young at heart, I hope). So why the insistence on Albarino only being made from Spain (and by inference you must mean only the Galician area of Spain---although a heck of a lot of Albarino is made in Portugal, albeit they pronounce it a bit differently).

So if we've already got Spain and Portugal, why can't the grape be grown in other areas. Just because they started in a certain riverine area on a peninsula in Europe (which is, in itself, a peninsula, as I recall from my Geography class), why should Albarino be limited to that particular place? I don't understand that.

Oh, wait---unless you're just being curmudgeonly stubborn, arbitrarily resistant to change, stuck in your ways, and unwilling to embrace new ideas.

Hoke,

Yes, I mean Spain.

There are three elements to my position. First, there was only going to be two until you mentioned crumudeon and stuborn, so that must be one reason but not the dominate reason. Second, there is so much wine made in the world that it is almost impossible to try it all. Why try to find something that is a good as a CB you like in the Loire when it is made 100 other places but would take a lifetime to try them all and multiply that by 50 for the other types of wines I enjoy. Lastly I truly feel that the area where the grape dominate and are a part of the local cuisine is almost always the best example of that wine. A couple of no brainers, at least for me, is sangiovese in Tuscany or riesling from Germany/Austria (OK, maybe Alsace). I have never found a riesling and CB from the US that could be enjoyed. Likewise it would be somewhat difficult to find a zin in another country. Sure you can find them but is it worth kissing 100 frogs to find a prince. I make exceptions for PN on the west coast and in Burgundy. I drink CB from the Loire, Pinot Grigio from NE Italy, Syrah from N. Rhone and ESJ (Steve is an exception), kalecik karasi only from Turkey (just had this one) and yes, Albarino only from Spain.

The Curmudgeon

Hoke,
Yes, I mean Spain.
There are three elements to my position. First, there was only going to be two until you mentioned crumudeon and stuborn, so that must be one reason but not the dominate reason. Second, there is so much wine made in the world that it is almost impossible to try it all. Why try to find something that is a good as a CB you like in the Loire when it is made 100 other places but would take a lifetime to try them all and multiply that by 50 for the other types of wines I enjoy. Lastly I truly feel that the area where the grape dominate and are a part of the local cuisine is almost always the best example of that wine. A couple of no brainers, at least for me, is sangiovese in Tuscany or riesling from Germany/Austria (OK, maybe Alsace). I have never found a riesling and CB from the US that could be enjoyed. Likewise it would be somewhat difficult to find a zin in another country. Sure you can find them but is it worth kissing 100 frogs to find a prince. I make exceptions for PN on the west coast and in Burgundy. I drink CB from the Loire, Pinot Grigio from NE Italy, Syrah from N. Rhone and ESJ (Steve is an exception), kalecik karasi only from Turkey (just had this one) and yes, Albarino only from Spain.

The Curmudgeon

I love to watch the sparks fly when two old/ornery/stubborn curmudgeons go at it!!

Walt,
I think you make a very good point, one that had never occured to me, that varieties dominate the local scene and work best w/ the local cusine. Guess that's why Calif Zin is always my go-to when I'm having boiled tofu/granola and pea sprouts.
And you're quite right that there are soooo many friggin' wines out there that you can't try them all; so why go around kissin' frogs to find a prince.
But, to me, one of the things I so like about my nutso wine passion run amok is the adventure of trying new stuff from different places. The thrill of the chase, I guess. I would much rather sit down to dinner and try an Mendocino Albarino, a WashState Verdehlo, a SantaRitaHills Dornfelder rather than something I already know and love. And TALK about it with somebody, as well.
But there is one thing you say w/ which I agree 100%. Steve IS an exception!!
Tom

Oh, hey, Walt, this is one of those constant arguments---well, not so much an argument, really, as a viewpoint, right---that we'll always go round and round about. With both of us being spot on right.

You take a more conservative view, in the sense of assessing what you know and what you have already experienced. I take a view more towards what TomHill just described quite well, that of the eternal quest to learn and experience more.

I most certainly agree with what you say about the quality of Riesling from Germany/Austria (and Alsace, and Northern Italy, I have to add). But I would hate the idea of staying faithfully with those wines, lovely as they are, and never experiencing the absolute astounding delight of a superb Australian Riesling, which is unlike any of the aformentioned but can be every bit---and perhaps in a way even more so---shiveringly good.

I love---absolutely love---Tocai Friulano (the grape that dare not say its name anywhere in its Friuli home). Try it whenever I can find it. But my natural curiosity compels me to check it out when I see something from the North Coast of California that says "Tocai Friulano", especially when it's made by a winemaker I know and respect. And boy am I glad I tried it, because it was good! Not the same as Tocai Friulano from Friuli, mind you...but then, I didn't expect it to be, and would've been surprised if it was.

You say you've made exceptions to your rules or origin, Walt. And I agree with the ones you've stated. And I'd agree with you and Tom about Steve (he is unique). I'm certainly not going to put myself in a position of not enjoying his wines simply because he lives in a certain place which happens not to be the origin place of a certain grape. Too limiting for me. I might miss out on something.

Besides, I get a primal joy out of ALL wines, even if some of them are those frogs you're talking about. Every taste adds to the library in my mind. You want absolute perfection in every wine you taste. I like the variety of tastes that I can experience. Just a different view of things, thassall.

Tom and Hoke,
One thing that overides many of my choices of wines is its match with food. The older I get, and the more wine I drink, the less I care about reviews, points et al and the more I work on matching the wine with food. This in part may be why I think of a wine and their local cuisine.

Hoke,
What? No comment on my "kalecik karasi only from Turkey" which I had in NYC after a trip to CSW for some old Spanish whites and '05 Chablis, which by the way is where I define Chardonnay. I enjoyed the experience in a Turkish restaurant with the recommended Turkish wine but don't think I will seek it out.

60 year old curmudgeon

Tom and Hoke,
One thing that overides many of my choices of wines is its match with food. The older I get, and the more wine I drink, the less I care about reviews, points et al and the more I work on matching the wine with food. This in part may be why I think of a wine and their local cuisine.

Well, I certainly don't take issue with that, Curmudgeon 1. Sounds eminently sensible and intelligent to me.

Hoke,
What? No comment on my "kalecik karasi only from Turkey" which I had in NYC after a trip to CSW for some old Spanish whites and '05 Chablis, which by the way is where I define Chardonnay. I enjoyed the experience in a Turkish restaurant with the recommended Turkish wine but don't think I will seek it out.

And we were doing so well for a moment there!

No comment on the kalecik karasi because I'm not sure I've ever had it. I've had several Turkish wines (several meaning more than a few, which comes to about four or five at a guess). Some of those were in Turkey, but I do recall those as being familiar vinifera varieties, Walt. I quite liked the Turkish cuisine, and the Turkish wine wasn't bad; it wasn't very compelling either, but it wasn't bad. Everyone talks about the lamb dishes, but the one dish that caught my attention was actually, believe it or not, a stewed chicken concoction.

You define Chardonnay as Chablis. There's the difference between us, Walt. I define Chardonnay as Chardonnay, and consider Chablis one of the many possible forms of Chardonnay---not the only one, and not necesserally the defining one, as it IS only one of the possibles. So is Puligny, Chassagne, Meursault, Corton, Montagny, Macon...and we haven't even gotten out of Burgundy yet. Again, too much infinite variety within the variety possible. And as much as I love Chablis, I wouldn't want to limit myself to Chablis only for the rest of my life. What a tragedy it would be to drink so much Chablis that I couldn't appreciate it any more from ennui?

Even the best pitchers need a good change up, you know.

Walt: Me again. I just reread your post and paid attention to what you purchased: old Spanish whites and 05 Chablis. See, you have more layers of complication than I had ever imagined if you're drinking such widely dissonant wines.

I truly feel that the area where the grape dominate and are a part of the local cuisine is almost always the best example of that wine.

While I share your skepticism for CA riesling and chenin blanc, I can't help but note the logical flaw in your argument, because all grapes and other agricultural food products have moved around the world and often originated in places other than where you currently see them today. Moving back in history one hundred, three hundred, or seven hundred years and declaring that local cuisine should not accept "foreign" ingredients would not allow you to enjoy many of the dishes you currently conceive of as "traditional".

Culture never stands still.

Spanish Albarino can often have screechily high acidities.

Actually - very rarely so!