WTN: What is going on with this Savennières?

SAVENNIERES ROCHE AUX MOINES 2002 – Château de Chamboureau – Cuvée de l’Avant – Pierre Soulez.

I think that I opened this bottle in its closed phase.

C: Quite amber. N: Very subdued with burnished candied note but not much sign of bright fruit. P: Very little aromatic expression but showing substantial body , flesh and structure, some minerality and subdued but detectible acidity slightly together with good mouth-fill and length slightly marred by alcoholic burn on the finish (14.5%).

I hope that this wine will blossom in due course. The simple Savennières 2000 Cuvée de l'Avant from the same stable is delicious. However Savennières is a difficult wine with which I have had some of my worst disappointments. In particular I have in mind a stash of Savennières 1995 and 1996 from Château d’Epiré which were good when tasted in their youth at the estate in 1998 but have disappointed ever since; the worst bottles are oxidised and the best still dull and inexpressive.

[Robin Garr]

Savennières is a difficult wine

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Tim. Traditionally, young Savennières has been hardly worth drinking, although I suspect some of the recent warm vintages may have been more fruit-forward and accessible. By and large, it's a wine not worth drinking in its dumb stage, requiring a decade. And when you get one that comes out dull and oxidized after all that time, it's a shame.

Still, an excellent, well-cellared item with 10 years or more can be such a delight that it may be worth the considerable risk.

Guess I had better open my `88, last bottle!!

SAVENNIERES ROCHE AUX MOINES 2002 – Château de Chamboureau – Cuvée de l’Avant – Pierre Soulez.

I think that I opened this bottle in its closed phase.

C: Quite amber. N: Very subdued with burnished candied note but not much sign of bright fruit. P: Very little aromatic expression but showing substantial body , flesh and structure, some minerality and subdued but detectible acidity slightly together with good mouth-fill and length slightly marred by alcoholic burn on the finish (14.5%)..

Your note doesn't sound too bad, and matches my experience with the same bottle 6 months ago.

Perhaps it is shut down, but the mediocre producer could also explain the ho-hum experience. On the positive side, the vines are now being farmed by Pithon, so, better things should come in the future.

Rahsaan wrote

"mediocre producer"

I have had quite good experience with Pierre Soulez, better in fact than with Pithon. His even more reasonably priced Château de la Bizolière range, stocked by a local supermarket, has often been very good, particularly the 1990 and 1996; the last two bottles of 1995 were oxidised but that may have resulted from their having been exposed to light and heat fluctuation in the supermarket. Also, as i mention above, the Savennières Chamboureau C. de l'Avant 2000 is delicious.

I do not, however, rate him outstanding like Foreau or Huet in Vouvray or Joly in Savennières.

Rahsaan wrote

"mediocre producer"

I have had quite good experience with Pierre Soulez, better in fact than with Pithon..

I think that is because Pithon has not - until now - had access to top quality vineyard sites, so in the future we will see what he can do. And while I'm not a betting man, I would wager that he will shine better than Soulez.

In my experience young Savennières is nowhere near 'amber,' which to me suggests either random oxidation (ie a failed cork) or bottling with inadequate level of SO2 to protect against oxidation.

I wouldn't judge the wine based on this sample.

Re: "amber"

My choice of the word may have overstated the darkness of the yellow. The cork appeared impeccable and there was no oxidative flavour only a lack of aroma and expressiveness. I do hope that your second hypothesis about inadequate SO2 is incorrect because that would mean that my small stash will only get worse.

Tim,

i would say that the candied note you mention suggests oxidation, too.

There is a lot of experimentation with low or no SO2 these days, which as a consumer I think sounds exciting, and as a wine merchant I think sounds like Russian Roulette.

Thanks for the note, I have a few of these resting in the cellar.

I agree, savennieres is a real gamble with oxidation and long closed phases. But when it's on, oh my!

I have a Savennieres Roche aux Moines 2000 from Clos de la Charmille sitting in the cellar. I'd been thinking about opening it this year -- but from what folks are saying, it sounds like it would be safer to give it a little more time in the dark?
cheers, Bonnie

Robin,

I think at some properties there has been a move to later harvesting, and sometimes lower yields, and lower SO2 (to varying degrees), so the appellation is not static. Aging curves are probably changing, at least some places.

But the lower end folks are probably still harvesting pretty early and dosing the SO2 pretty hard. Actually, so are some of the bigger names. In these cases, a long decant is in order.

2000 Epire needs 2 days decanted in the fridge before it has anything to say, for instance.

That's an interesting comment about the need for two day's decanting of Epiré 00. Maybe that's the way to open up my 95s and 96s, at least the bottles that are not oxidised.