WTN: Seconds Anyone - Tasting the 2000 Bordeaux 2nd wines

[David M. Bueker]

Got together with a bunch of the guys last night. Wines were served blind, but they were obviously Bordeaux from the very 1st sniff/sip.

The wines served were:

2000 Carruades de Lafite
2000 La Chapelle de la Mission
2000 Clos du Marquis
2000 La Dame de Montrose
2000 Haut-Bages Averous
2000 Le Petit Cheval
2000 Pavillon Rouge du Chateau Margaux
2000 La Louviere (pseudo-ringer as it's not a 2nd wine)

IMPORTANT NOTE I FORGOT TO ADD: All wines double decanted 12 hours ahead.

I would not kick any of these wines away that's for damn sure. My least favorite was the La Chapelle (group's least favorite as well), but it was a good (not great) wine, just not up to the level of the rest of the bottles. The Haut-Bages was also lacking in comparison. There was a strong group of really good bottles that included the Carruades, Dame de Montrose, Petit Cheval and my favorite of the 4, Clos du Marquis. These were all quite delicious and still with 2-4 more years of positive development before they settle into great drinking for a long while. The top two wines of hte night were the Pavillon Rouge and the La Louviere. The Pavillon did not shock me, but it did stun me with its mass of silky black fruit, incredible depth and power. It was my wine of the night by a wide margin, and easily lapped the field for the group. The surprise of the night was the La Louviere. I could have sworn it was young Sociando-Mallet! It had all the depth of black fruit, tannin and the bit of green that I associate with Sociando (and like in Sociando). Great showing for this Pessac.

Overall there's lots to enjoy here. There plenty of depth of fruit in all the wines, and they have not yet hit their strides. For those who own them be very happy. For those who do not...get the next available vintage. I keep trying the second wines and keep being impressed.

Nice report, David, thanks.

Can you offer a guide to the current pricing for your preferred wines above? I still shudder at the high prices the hyped vintage Bordeaux's fetch over the last several years. Perhaps there's much better QPR seeking out some of these better seconds from 2000? TIA

[David M. Bueker]

I did a look on winesearcher, and in the USA the Louviere is still in the $30s, with the Clos du Marquis around $50 in a few place (and MUCH higher elsewhere).

The La Dame is cheaper. The Carruades & Pavillon have gone through the roof.

These wines are not so easy to find at those prices over this side of town.

Thanks for doing the leg work.

[Jenise]

Neat tasting! Have only had one of the group, the 00 Pavillon. The setting was different--it was a themed tasting of Margaux and St. Emilions only, any vintage--but the wine was a standout there, too. Had me going, "Why haven't I been buying these wines?" I've never bought a one.

I bought 4 bottles of 2000 Carruades de Lafite about 2 years ago. I think I paid around $55 a bottle. I have opened one and I was impressed. It was still developing but it had great depth and balance and a very long finish. I'm saving the other 3 for awhile. I did see a bottle of it for sale recently but it was up in the $90 range.

Glenn

[David M. Bueker]

Had me going, "Why haven't I been buying these wines?" I've never bought a one.

I have never bought many. I once bought the '98 Carruades & it was hard and ungiving, which was (in retrospect) much an aritifact of the vintage as anything else.

I buy Clos du Marquis and La Dame de Montrose, but when it comes to current vintages of Caruades and Pavillon, Branaire Ducru is cheaper and an even better wine. Now La Louviere has me seriously intrigued.

While I own and like the '00 Petit Cheval, my view is still that :
1) seconds can be very good in top vintages
2) are seldom values.

It sounds to me that the best value here was the La Louviere, the one non-second. I paid less than $25 for the Louviere. I'd guess the Petit Cheval, Carraudes, and Pavillon are all $80-100. Good wines, but I'd probably rather have the first wines of Pavie-Macquin or Grand Puy Lacoste (or two bottles of du Tertre) for less money.

PS I regard Clos du Marquis differently, as it is I believe a separate section of LLC.

[David M. Bueker]

I agree that Carruades and Pavillon have gotten out of reach, but when they were originally released (and the host bought them as futures) they were still great values. Nowdays they are not & indeed the La Louviere is the top QPR pick of the bunch. I'm going to look for some of that wine.

As for Clos du Marquis - it is mostly a separate vineyard. But it's as much a second wine as any of hte others. Most of the other second wines are largely from vienayard blocks that have never been "grand vin" quality, or from young vine blocks, so they aren't this mix of "lesser" fruit from the whole vineyard.

[James Roscoe]

David, looks like a great tasting, but the seconds have gotten pricier with each "vintage of the century". Thanks for your notes.

[David M. Bueker]

David, looks like a great tasting, but the seconds have gotten pricier with each "vintage of the century"

So has everything else.

[James Roscoe]

David, looks like a great tasting, but the seconds have gotten pricier with each "vintage of the century"

So has everything else.

Too true. Of course the Carrudes Laffite used to be okay at $45. Now it's double that for the 05's. Such is life.

[David M. Bueker]

James,

I can still easily find '05 Carruades on futures for $60 or less. That's very borderline for me when wines like Sociando-Mallet are in the low 40s and Potensac is in the low 20s, but it's hardly double $45.

2000 is the only Carruades I've bought---pleased at $19 as future, but wouldn't be at thrice that or more.
excellent vintages for Pichon Baron. Tomorrow,the plan is to drink my last bottle of the '89 and first of the 2000. I might even post notes. After I finish my taxes.
Charles

[James Roscoe]

James,

I can still easily find '05 Carruades on futures for $60 or less. That's very borderline for me when wines like Sociando-Mallet are in the low 40s and Potensac is in the low 20s, but it's hardly double $45.

The 2003 Carrudes are $75 at the nearby BAWS. I assumed the 'o5s would be $15 more. It's out of my price range. I am with you on the Sociando. I've seen it in the upper $20s for an "off" vintage at C-W. The Pontesac is good juice at a great price too. I can still get '02s and the '04s are a good deal.

I opened the thread hoping to find a note on the 2000 Reserve de la Comtesse (2nd of Pichon Lalande). I think it is the only 2nd from 2000 that I have. Any idea of how this one is drinking?

[David M. Bueker]

I have not had the 2000 Reserve de la Comtesse in 3 years or so. I can only speculate based on the resutls that it would be worth checking on one.

Great notes, David. I liked '00 Pavillon so much that I bought a 6 pack of '03 on futures ($42). The only other '00 2nd that I have is Sirene de Giscours. I might open that soon but from your notes it sounds like I'll hold on to my lone remaining '00 Pavillon for a few more years.

[David M. Bueker]

Bill: First see added note in original post - the wines were opened 12 hours ahead and double decanted back into the bottle.

Holding the '00 Pavillon will yield good things, though the bottle on Thursday was ever so good.

Of course the issue is that one open bottle does not mean that all bottles are drinking well.